Actually, ASTM D92 is for flash point. D97 is for pour point, and it's the functional equivalent of ISO 3016. Reference this Elixion data sheet from Castrol.
-81°F, I think is bogus for GC
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You're right G-Man. ASTM D97 is pour point (Amsoil has that wrong on their spec sheet). I still think something is wrong with the GC's pour point spec. Look at Neo's 0w-5. It has all di-ester basestocks and a pp of -80F. It also has a VI of 180. But it isn't going to be anywhere near 12.1cSt at 100C
VI is nothing more than an indicator of an oil's resistence to change in viscosity between 40°C and 100°C. A VI of 100 is generally considered the baseline for PCMOs, and represents the VI of a straight 30 or 40 wt. Such an oil will exhibit the greatest degree of vis change when compared to other oils, especially multi-grades. An oil with a higher VI will show less change in viscosity with change in temp. Nothing about the VI of an oil directly correlates to the viscosity of the oil at 100°C.quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
You're right G-Man. ASTM D97 is pour point (Amsoil has that wrong on their spec sheet). I still think something is wrong with the GC's pour point spec. Look at Neo's 0w-5. It has all di-ester basestocks and a pp of -80F. It also has a VI of 180. But it isn't going to be anywhere near 12.1cSt at 100C
Chevron Marine SAE 30
40C...... 106
100C.....11.9
VI.......101
flash....245C
pour.....-21C
SA.......2.68
TBN.......20
Chevron Delo 0W30
40C......52.2
100C.....10.3
VI.......190
flash....215C
SA.......1.1
TBN......10
pour.....-76F (-60C)
Esso/Exxon XD-3 0W30 (1999)
40C.....57
10C.....12.1
VI.....210
flash....200C
SA......1.25
TBN.....8.0
pour...-48C
Who in this room needs an engine oil with a TBN of 17 or 20??
Are you burning high sulphur diesel?
If so save your money and get the marine oil for $1.70/ QT
Would you like that additive package in a synthetic?
Sure why not.
The major oil companies will mix up what ever you want.
Break through in molecular engineering!!!
German Castrol....You bought it you own it.
40C...... 106
100C.....11.9
VI.......101
flash....245C
pour.....-21C
SA.......2.68
TBN.......20
Chevron Delo 0W30
40C......52.2
100C.....10.3
VI.......190
flash....215C
SA.......1.1
TBN......10
pour.....-76F (-60C)
Esso/Exxon XD-3 0W30 (1999)
40C.....57
10C.....12.1
VI.....210
flash....200C
SA......1.25
TBN.....8.0
pour...-48C
Who in this room needs an engine oil with a TBN of 17 or 20??
Are you burning high sulphur diesel?
If so save your money and get the marine oil for $1.70/ QT
Would you like that additive package in a synthetic?
Sure why not.
The major oil companies will mix up what ever you want.
Break through in molecular engineering!!!
German Castrol....You bought it you own it.
Bernhardschau:
I live in Montreal, and let me tell you, the pour point is VERY important in the winter time. It gets as cold here as in AB, and an oil with a lower pour point will not jam up my BMW's VANOS - which triggers a check engine light, and a visit to the stealership.
It's important for those of us with 'delicate' engines.
I live in Montreal, and let me tell you, the pour point is VERY important in the winter time. It gets as cold here as in AB, and an oil with a lower pour point will not jam up my BMW's VANOS - which triggers a check engine light, and a visit to the stealership.
It's important for those of us with 'delicate' engines.
VI is calculated between 40C and 100C but the purpose of the calculation is to predict kinematic viscosity over a wide range of temperatures. For example:
The kinematic viscosity of Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 is 258,288cSt at -81F.
The kinematic viscosity of GC 0w-30 is 586,690cSt at the same temperature.
Again, something is amiss with GC's pour point spec.
The kinematic viscosity of Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 is 258,288cSt at -81F.
The kinematic viscosity of GC 0w-30 is 586,690cSt at the same temperature.
Again, something is amiss with GC's pour point spec.
OK...we need someone to volunteer to drive above the Arctic Circle in late January with GC in their engine and put this thing to rest (I'd go but I have a haircut appt right about then).
[ September 06, 2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
[ September 06, 2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
Can someone please explain to me in dummy terms: Kinematic Viscocities, and what does cSt stand for? Centi... ?
You know, if you guys wrote "Oil for Dummies" you'd be rich.
You know, if you guys wrote "Oil for Dummies" you'd be rich.
I'll drive in late Jan, early Feb with GC in my car. I'll even park the car outside overnight and film the start-up the next morning. Since I'm right on the St-Laurence I get an additional 10C drop in temperature.
Sounds good? Now, even though the car will start beautifully, don't expect me to be happy when I get out of the car, because leather in the winter... iz cold... until the seat warmers kick in
the 1999 328i will be the test subject.
Fun thing about Winter in Canada, is that as winter approaches, so does the north pole.
However, if we want to try extreme cold: South Pole.
We just need to wear radiation suits as the poles are the recipients of particle bombardments.
I can't believe I'm doing this.... I have a heated indoor garage.
[ September 06, 2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Asmodeus ]
Fun thing about Winter in Canada, is that as winter approaches, so does the north pole.
However, if we want to try extreme cold: South Pole.
We just need to wear radiation suits as the poles are the recipients of particle bombardments.
I can't believe I'm doing this.... I have a heated indoor garage.
[ September 06, 2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Asmodeus ]
I'm still playing with the viscosity calculator. If Amsoil 0w-30 is "frozen" at -60F (according to their spec sheet) then it's kinematic viscosity is 39,884cSt at that temperature. At what temperature is GC's 0w-30 the same thickness?
-50F
-50F
Woohoo! I own page 2! Good night!
One of these effects (in a nutshell), is that when a particle hits the magnetic field (positive or negative particle - and I not talking about Quarks or smaller), the particle will rotate arond a field line and accelerate in the direction of the normal force.
Normal force is at 90 degrees to the vector of the particle: i.e. along the magnetic field line.
Given the shape and direction of the field lines, all of the particles end up at either poll (depending on positive or negative particle). Hence why there are particle research labs on both poles.
Explanation is clear enough i hope? IF anyone wants to add, please do so, E&M was last year for me. Since then i've been enjoying Organic Chemistry
I don't think anything is amiss. What I do think is that at extreme temps like -81°F these calculations are meaningless (and are probably not even accuarate). cSt vis is meant to be a measure of a HOT oil's viscosity. The viscosity index was never meant to indicate an oil's resistence to thickening at cold temps; it was meant to show an oil's ability to resist THINNING at high temps, with 40°C as the established baseline, and 100°C as the upper limit. These were considered the operational parameters of a motor oil back when the concept of VI was first developed (which was in the late 1920s, I believe).
Cold vis is calculated and measured differently and is reflected in the cold cranking viscosity number, which is measured by ASTM D-2602, and gives the "apparent" vis of the oil at low temps. The measurement unit is in centipose (cP).
As an example of how two oils with identical VIs, which are the same viscostiy at higher temps, can behave very differently at colder temps, take a look at this page comparing a VHVI base oil to PAO.
OK, weather it peforms at cold is one thing, and hot is another. but what is it going to look like at 5000 miles?
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