-81°F, I think is bogus for GC

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Mar 10, 2003
Calgary AB
I state it simply: IMHO the -81°F pour point for 'German' Castrol 0w30 is BS. I've been cruising the site to find the source of this info to no avail. My reasoning is that a 5 cSt Turbine Oil manufactured to MIL-L-23699D (Turbine Oil Type II) has a pour point of no greater than -54°C and the ones I've checked are -57°C (-70.6°F). No a spec does exist called MIL-L-7808 (Turbine Oil Type I), this is an earlier spec but does have applications for cold weather use since they pour at <-65°F, but they can't handle the heat like a Type II fluid and are relegated for 'special use' only. So what this means is a lube oil that is almost 100% Grp. V polyolester and 2 or 3 times the price of GC cannot do it I don't think GC can do it. Almost all the Grp. V stuff will attack anything that is not chemically inert as well, at least Buna-N, to last: Viton seal material. You would need some very new and special chemistry to achieve this. I don't think Castrol has these techniques. Or they would be released in the whole product line. BTW there are other 0w30's around that meet ACEA A3 and are Group III, for instance Petro-Canada Duron XL 0w30 and it's cheap. I have donned a fibreglass reinforced ceramic firesuit and await the storm. For this occasion the Nomex was insuffcient due to the fervor around 'German' Castrol
Your reasoning is faulty. If the right esters are used, a pour point this low CAN be achieved. I've seen two motor oils that have pour points this low: Motul 0w40 and the German Castrol 0w30. Here is the SLX 0w30 data sheet sent to me by Castrol of Germany. You'll note that it lists the pour point as -63°C, which is -81°F.
Well, the sheet doesn't lie. A very good VI @179! I find it remarkable that Castrol will supply this very high quality oil when, according to opinion on this board the Syntec line is not up to par. It's worse than playing the same old tune, it's an admission.
What I find remarkable is that Castrol has this motor oil (the German Castrol) that seems so superior (unless there is something we have missed) and they do not advertise it BIG TIME because it could compete with Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is number one, I believe, in synthetic motor oils in the United States. If Castrol wants to compete with Mobil 1, they should be mass-producing the German Castrol and making it available in additional viscosities. They should be MASS PRODUCING this motor oil and ADVERTISING IT BIG TIME! But instead, we have a hard time locating a few bottles of the stuff. Something is strange about this.
Mystic, my friend, We don't want to use a motor oil that is "common." Enjoy the exclusivity; revel in the rarity; and savor the scarcity. [Big Grin]
My feeling is Castrol needed a 0w A3 oil to compete with Mobil1 0w40 that is A3. The oil 0w30 based on group III just didn't make A3 spec so they used the german stuff as a quick solution. It tells consumers our Syntec line can do anything that the Mobil1 line can. However given it sells for the same price as the other syntec, but probably contains lots of expensive group 5 I'm betting they make very little, maybe no money , or possible sell it at a loss. They did it for market share and as support for the rest of the high profit Group III syntec. However when you sell at a loss, you don't make up for it in volume. The more of it you sell, the more you lose. Also you don't want to bring attention to the weakness of your other Syntec formula.
It tells consumers our Syntec line can do anything that the Mobil1 line can.
As TS would say, I'm picking nits but this GC is better then Mobil 1, at least from what I've seen on paper. It's UOA's are very good too.
RussellA, What I am hoping is that the 0W30 is a stopgap measure until they can bring Formula RS 0W40 over and REALLY compete with M1 (European Formula). M1 0W30 is not the competition. If that were Castrol's intention, it would be logical for them not to hype the 0W30 as they would be building interest in an oil that, while they may continue to import it for a while, is not their real heavyweight (no pun intended). It would also explain their reluctance to answer our questions or to make it stand out as something different from the rest of their Syntec line. It will be interesting to see if any new batch numbers show up in the near future.
Sub_Zero; What is the price of Pet-Can 0W30 up to now? Is that the Duron or car stuff that is A-3 approved? The last time I bought the Duron Diesel 0W30 it was about $3.30/liter or around $2.40 USD/QT. The Pet-Can car "synthetic" is aboutabuck more I think. Maybe we should steam the labels off the Cannuck stuff and sell it south of the border. The Zepplin oil company is born.
Hi, as I noted elsewhere on this Board,the original German Castrol Formula SLX 0w-30(SH/CF)( EC11, A3/B3, VW500 & 505 issue (11.92), BMW & Porsche Approved ) oil first sold here in 1996, had a pour point of -57C which is about -72F? Its HTHS was 3.5 Its marketing pitch included "...it is the fastest free flowing SAE 0w-30..." ( Castrol's Document No B1164/96/1 ) Castrol's R 0w-40 appears to be their "exotic" push in this country now Regards Doug
I'm pretty sure the Petro-Canada 0W30 is A3 certified. I can check next time I drive by it Pet-Can. Actually, this can be interesting. I'll stop by tomorow or Sunday and list their oils and whether they are A1 or A3. Post it, and we'll have that much more to discuss about. like where are the best border holes to smuggle all this oil. [Wink] [ September 05, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Asmodeus ]
Originally posted by RussellA: Also you don't want to bring attention to the weakness of your other Syntec formula.
That's it in a nutshell. If Castrol suddenly started talking about how great the German 0w30 is, people would begin to ask questions about "how good" the other grades of Syntec are. There is a reason it's so hard to find data sheets for Syntec: for the most part, their numbers suck. Mobil 1 in equivalent grades puts Syntec to shame. The one exception is the German 0w30.
That's it in a nutshell. If Castrol suddenly started talking about how great the German 0w30 is, people would begin to ask questions about "how good" the other grades of Syntec are. There is clearly a buzz about this oil on this website. But this website is populated by a bunch of outliers. The finest points about motor oil are analyzed to the point of extremity here--not to say that that's a bad thing, of course--but to do so is just so far off the beaten path of motor car normalcy for nearly every one else that if they knew what we discuss here and with what frequency, they'd begin to wonder... I am now of the opinion that this German oil has always been intended to be just another player in the North American Castrol lineup. They're not interested in going head to head with Exxon/Mobil. They've probably done the numbers and realized that they're not going to make any big inroads against the synthetic behemoth. They are like Pepsi is to Coke. Perpetual runner up. A little give and take here and there, but no continental drift is going to take place. They might hope to skim a little in the 0/30 department and I think that they're doing it with an oil that has fallen out of the mainstream in Europe, but can still be produced to meet a demand in North America. We've seen the trend to zero and thirty (and twenty) in North America, from five and ten and forty, and this oil fits the bill. Those members who are fervent enthusiasts should also steel yourselves for the possibility that Castrol is simply disposing of stocks in North America because they can't move it elsewhere. Enjoy it while you can, because that might be the reality, despite what's been seen in Canada lately. But since Canada is closer by oceangoing vessel, it makes sense that that's where they'd dump it in greater quantity. Consider the high iron in the VOAs, too. Perhaps it's been sitting in tanks/tankers and not in bottles in the garages of Germans as in years gone by. Once it's gone, they introduce a new 5/20 or 0/20 Group III blend, they edit their website file, and overnight they're on to something else. Remember, the website changed overnight to introduce the 0/30. An upload later, and it's gone. --Just like the now-invisible SLX page on Castrol.de. Castrol seems content with the status quo. They don't appear to have it in them to spend a lot of money on pushing one of their oils. And it's not because they're leery of drawing attention to their other oils, I don't believe. Only the geeks on this website would be savvy enough to appreciate that irony. Outliers.
Originally posted by sub_zero: I state it simply: IMHO the -81°F pour point for 'German' Castrol 0w30 is BS.
Maybe not BS, but a different standard than we're used to seeing. Castrol uses the ISO 3016 standard to determine pour point. Most US oil makers use ASTM D-92. I'm not familiar with either standard but there must be a difference. Compare Amsoil's Series 2000 0w-30 to GC 0w-30. Amsoil starts thinner at 100C (11.3cSt compared to 12.1). Amsoil has a much higher VI (196 compared to 179). And it has a lower CCS viscosity at -30C (2993cP compared to 3200cP). But the pour point of the Amsoil is -60F. Obviously we're not comparing apples to apples here.
Originally posted by YZF150: [b]this website is populated by a bunch of outliers...Only the geeks on this website would be savvy enough to appreciate that irony...Outliers.
Geeks? Outliers? We resemble that remark! PS Thought provoking post, by the way! [Big Grin] [ September 06, 2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
Is the pour point of Oil really that important so that we spend time and effort discussing it on this forum. Like Sub_Zero, I live in AB as well and it gets %$#@*&%$$ cold here, never much below -40C very often however. When its that cold, almost everyone plugs the thing in anyways so you could run Dino with a pour point of -18C and the thing will still turn over. Most Synth oils advertise pour points between -48C and -54C and that's good enough for me. Just my 2 cents worth on this topic.
userfriendly, I paid $4.25 almost a litre, **** I feel ripped!! I agree though that the PC Duron XL stuff should be brought out to the aficianandos. It can be had for a bargain. The GC is really impressive on the 'Sheet'. Is 'German' CAstrol really the SLX product though?
bernhardschau, I think pour point has become an area of discussion more because it is a strong indicator of the probable ester-basing of this oil than because members are ga-ga over the -81F pour point itself. [ September 06, 2003, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
Originally posted by sub_zero: userfriendly, Is 'German' CAstrol really the SLX product though?
If you have seen G-Man II's defense in other threads of the fact that this is indeed SLX, it's pretty compelling (in the absence of having a direct statement from Castrol to that effect).
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