7 states that Tax you the hardest.

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm against property tax on a homestead or vehicle. Owning a house or vehicle does not bring you revenue and shouldn't be taxed. Tax should be placed on revenue and income, not on private property like a home or vehicle.

I'll have to disagree. The homeowner receives services in the form of fire, police, street maintenance, parks, and public property maintenance. These services are quite expensive and the money to pay for these services has to come from somewhere. It should be proportional to the property you own. It seems fair to me.


But people who don't own a home receive those services too. Granted if they rent they may pay property tax included in the rent. But the thing is you also pay income tax, state and city income tax, sales tax, water and sewage, gas tax, auto registration fees etc. But why should your home serve as collateral for tax? If you work in a city you use most of those services and pay the other taxes mentioned. If you're not working and don't have revenue you don't receive a tax bill and have to sell property to pay it.

The services have to be paid for somehow true. But they can and to a large part are paid with other taxes. The concept of property tax puts you in servitude to the gov regardless of the value of services rendered and means you don't really own property. A lot of people pay more in property tax over the years then the value of the home sometimes multiple times.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Truckedup
I live on 10 acres in a rural area of Western NY state.My place would be worth about 200K bucks. My property taxes are $4200 a year and that includes a veteran and retired tax discount. 8 percent sales tax,state income tax,breathing tax,it's endless. In return we have [censored] roads and a crumbling infrastructural. School system is decent,but I have no kids in school....
Why am I here????????????????????????

You guys in Texas and the South.....in 20 years will be just like the east...high taxes and wall to wall people....


I don't think you should have to pay tax on land or a home unless it is making you money as a business or you sell it and receive a gain. Like you said you are paying for services out of other revenue based tax. Property tax is the worst kind of tax.

 

[javacontour]

I think that's the problem we face in the US. Folks have the notion that only certain folks should pay taxes and others should be exempt.

If we are going to have buckets of government services for all, then everyone needs to be contributing to pay those taxes.

If we tax property, everyone's property gets taxed. Not just those who make money, or make enough money, or are below a certain age, etc.

If we are going to tax income, tax everyone's income, at the same rate. No discounts for different types of income, or because you have a low income.

The rates go up as the political class keeps creating divisions that enable certain select groups rich AND poor to avoid taxes.

The only fair way to tax is to tax everyone the same.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think you should have to pay tax on land or a home unless it is making you money as a business or you sell it and receive a gain. Like you said you are paying for services out of other revenue based tax. Property tax is the worst kind of tax.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
The irony is you are saying how teachers should be and if they don't conform to your view, they are messed up.


How is that irony? I never said anyone was "messed up", for Pete's sake! Let me summarize, as clearly as I can:

There are many different types of children in any school system with an extreme dynamic of challenges, abilities and needs; many of which will seem inconvenient to those who are there to provide for them. For those who measure the quality of others by how convenient those others are to the Centre Of Everything, they will find burn-out comes quickly.

There. No one has been deemed "messed up", and no one has been measured unacceptable according to the Grand Rubric of the Holy Standards of uc50ic4more.

 

[javacontour]

Actually, telling someone they are in the wrong profession is the same thing as saying they are "messed up"

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

If a teacher gets "worn out" by kids who need more help than others because they don't have proper guidance at home, then teaching is absolutely the wrong profession for them.


You are saying that unless you can teach without getting worn out they are in the wrong profession.

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

The narcissistic self-centredness that is evident by some of the posts here leads one to "burn out" when they don't get what they want. These are usually also the very people who complain about how messed up "society" is; as it also does not conform to their view.


Which means you have a view to which teachers should conform, thus the irony.

More clear?

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: javacontour
The irony is you are saying how teachers should be and if they don't conform to your view, they are messed up.


How is that irony? I never said anyone was "messed up", for Pete's sake! Let me summarize, as clearly as I can:

There are many different types of children in any school system with an extreme dynamic of challenges, abilities and needs; many of which will seem inconvenient to those who are there to provide for them. For those who measure the quality of others by how convenient those others are to the Centre Of Everything, they will find burn-out comes quickly.

There. No one has been deemed "messed up", and no one has been measured unacceptable according to the Grand Rubric of the Holy Standards of uc50ic4more.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I think that's the problem we face in the US. Folks have the notion that only certain folks should pay taxes and others should be exempt.

If we are going to have buckets of government services for all, then everyone needs to be contributing to pay those taxes.

If we tax property, everyone's property gets taxed. Not just those who make money, or make enough money, or are below a certain age, etc.

If we are going to tax income, tax everyone's income, at the same rate. No discounts for different types of income, or because you have a low income.

The rates go up as the political class keeps creating divisions that enable certain select groups rich AND poor to avoid taxes.

The only fair way to tax is to tax everyone the same.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think you should have to pay tax on land or a home unless it is making you money as a business or you sell it and receive a gain. Like you said you are paying for services out of other revenue based tax. Property tax is the worst kind of tax.


What the difference? If you tax property and someone doesn't own property then they don't pay tax even though they can still benefit from services. If you tax income and a person makes no income same thing.

If you don't tax anyone's homestead then it's fair.

Everyone pays tax in reality. Some pay a higher income tax rate, but just because your income is low doesn't mean you didn't contribute to the income of a firm that gets taxed at the higher rate.

You just like progressive incomes and regressive taxes, that's all. There's no real reason to believe a flat/user based tax system is anymore fair than a flat wealth distribution system.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I think that's the problem we face in the US. Folks have the notion that only certain folks should pay taxes and others should be exempt.

If we are going to have buckets of government services for all, then everyone needs to be contributing to pay those taxes.

If we tax property, everyone's property gets taxed. Not just those who make money, or make enough money, or are below a certain age, etc.

If we are going to tax income, tax everyone's income, at the same rate. No discounts for different types of income, or because you have a low income.

The rates go up as the political class keeps creating divisions that enable certain select groups rich AND poor to avoid taxes.

The only fair way to tax is to tax everyone the same.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think you should have to pay tax on land or a home unless it is making you money as a business or you sell it and receive a gain. Like you said you are paying for services out of other revenue based tax. Property tax is the worst kind of tax.


What the difference? If you tax property and someone doesn't own property then they don't pay tax even though they can still benefit from services. If you tax income and a person makes no income same thing.

If you don't tax anyone's homestead then it's fair.

Everyone pays tax in reality. Some pay a higher income tax rate, but just because your income is low doesn't mean you didn't contribute to the income of a firm that gets taxed at the higher rate.

You just like progressive incomes and regressive taxes, that's all. There's no real reason to believe a flat/user based tax system is anymore fair than a flat wealth distribution system.


Sure it is more fair. After all, what's fair about saying you pay 5% and this guy over here, he'll pay 50%?

I recognize that in the property tax scenario, only those who own property pay taxes. I also recognize that those who rent will also end up pay the taxes as that's figured into the rent charged by the landlord.

I don't see the renter as getting out of paying a tax here.

My complaint was when we say things like, because you make money with your property, you pay, but if you just live there, don't pay or pay less.

I think it may have been you who said such a thing.

If we are going to tax property, then why just tax commercial property? Let's tax it all, at the same rate, period.

Same for income.

Why have separate rates for capital gains, payroll incomes, pension incomes, social security incomes or incomes above or below some threshold.

Just tax it all at the same rate and be done with it.

Ditto for the myriad of deductions.

Set the rate low enough that the people don't care they no longer get deductions.

Tax it all at a fixed percentage, regardless how much I give to charity, pay interest on my mortgage, the number of children I have etc.

After all, we still have other taxes on fuel, phones, electricity, and so forth.

Having a complex tax code with deductions that require a highly trained and paid accounting professional don't benefit the general public.

If you want to make things fair, set the rates and policy the same such that Warren Buffet's secretary pays the same rate as he does without the need of hiring an accounting professional to get that rate.

The problem isn't that guys like Warren Buffet don't pay enough, it's that his secretary pays too much because she cannot afford the tax breaks he gets.

So set the rates for all to reflect the rates that those who can afford the breaks.

 

[hattaresguy]

I dislike property taxes, I pay a ton of them.

But someone has to pay for the board of ed bloat in my town, couldn't have them not driving 2012 Camry Hybrids now could we?

 

[Tempest]

If you have to pay property tax on property that one supposedly owns, do you really own that property?

If an elderly couple owns their property outright (doesn't pay a note), but has to pay property taxes but can't, and they loose that property due to taxes in arrears, did they really "own" the property in the first place?

This is the truly insidious nature of property taxes and they should be abolished nation wide.

 

[DC44]

I subsidize the home owners/city in my area. They charge a $12 dollar solid waste fee on my utility bill since I'm a city resident. But I stay in apartments which means a private company takes care of the garbage. Why am I paying for services I don't receive? That's an extra $144 in 'taxes' a year. They make $144k a year from residents of my apartment complex assuming it's at full occupancy (1000 unit apartment). I would assume that they would lose a few million a year if it was 'fair'. But that's life, death and taxes.