5w20 vs 5w30

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: 69GTX

If they used a 5w-20 vs. 5w-30 oil in that video, there would have been very little difference in the flow to the cams. What they did was compare a 0w-20 to a 10w-30 at -35c.



Pretty easy actually. Setup the test to prove the outcome you're after or pay for it and get the results you want. Comparing a 5W20 to a 5W30, or a 0W20 to a 0W30 wouldn't have yielded the results they were after.


In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.


In extreme cold 0W30 will get to the head faster than a 15W40, no doubt about it. I don't think there'd be much difference between a 0W20 and a 0W30 though, or a 5W20 vs. a 5W30.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Doesn't prove that it does either. Just one reason I like 20wt oils is the faster delivery of oil to the cam and chain area in very cold temps.


But when you read the OEm papers, the oil company papers, every piece of literature produced by industry on their drive to thinner oils, they are ALL about "economy with acceptable wear" in light of government mandates for either fuel efficiency or CO2 reduction.

I've not yet come across a single paper that sates we "went thinner for less wear".

Originally Posted By: tig1
Here's a video showing painfully slower oil reaching the cam in cold temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


Again, (and I say again, as we've been exactly here before, multiple times)...

That Esso video is about the "W" rating, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the "20", (or 30, or 40).

what it proces is that at -35C you NEED a 0W rather than a 10W or 15W, it's got NOTHING to do with your 20 "getting to the cam and chain" quicker.

a 0W40 at -40C would deliver oil to those areas similarly to the demonstrated 0W30, and so would the 0W20...it's the W rating, properly applied, and at extreme temperatures.

At freezing, there would be zero difference in any of the oil's ability to get to the top end.

Originally Posted By: tig1
In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.


That's what's disheartening in repeating this conversation over and over and over again.

The video shows what happens AT -35C with oils that should be being USED at -35C versus one that is entirely appropriate at -35C (except they missed 5W...hmmmm)

It does not translate to other temperature ranges.

But you keep ignoring the facts, and using it to (not) "prove" that 0W20 in Phoenix "gets there quicker" than 10W30...it doesn't.

Interestingly in the engine tests, they skipped right from 0W30 to 10W30, and missed 5W30. Why do you think that they did that ?

Clearly to make a certain impression on less discerning viewers...it IS an advertorial, not a documentary...and obviously it works.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.


Originally Posted By: tig1
20wt oils is the faster delivery of oil to the cam and chain area in very cold temps. Here's a video showing painfully slower oil reaching the cam in cold temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


OK, I'm intrigued now...

Do you honestly think that video proves that XW20 oils "flow" faster than XW30 or XW40 ?

That's what you are saying...

 

[CT8]

The most important thing we are missing here [a BITOG reader failure] is how much time does it take for the oil to travel from the sump to the oil pump? Any one ever look at the SAE oil viscosity temp/viscosity charts?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CT8
The most important thing we are missing here [a BITOG reader failure] is how much time does it take for the oil to travel from the sump to the oil pump? Any one ever look at the SAE oil viscosity temp/viscosity charts?


Here's a test engine running oils with different "W" ratings, including SAE30 with no "W" rating at various temperatures. It includes the time to get oil flowing to the rocker arms (RAOT, so same as the Esso video), and time to full oil pressurs (FOPT).

clearly, the SAE30 "flows" as well at 20F as the 5W20 "flows" at 12F, and the 10W30 does at 9F...in this test engine.

So the "W" rating and the operating temperature are important.

Take any of the three oils at 30F, and regardless, none of them are going to "beat" the SAE 30 time of 3 and 6 seconds, as that's the mechanical filling rate of this engine.

Above freezing, whether the owner chose 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, or straight 30, nothing is going to "flow to the top end" any faster

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.


Originally Posted By: tig1
20wt oils is the faster delivery of oil to the cam and chain area in very cold temps. Here's a video showing painfully slower oil reaching the cam in cold temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


OK, I'm intrigued now...

Do you honestly think that video proves that XW20 oils "flow" faster than XW30 or XW40 ?

That's what you are saying...



The video says nothing about a 20wt oil. It only shows a 0-30 will flow to the head much faster than a 15-40 at very cold temps. Is this hard to grasp? I actually experienced this in the 70's while living in Maine with M1 5-20. I used Valvoline 10-40 in a Chevy V8 and had terrible upper end clatter in -15F and below temps on cold starts. I changed to M1 5-20 and there was no comparison. Engine cranked much faster and no clatter at all.

 

[Pontual]

My Subaru say "5w30 - But -n If you run hard, use a thicker oil". That's scientific enough to most people. But 0w30 is very little difference anyway. Maybe is consideration to conventional oil shearing, but it doesn't make any mention to base oil.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
The video says nothing about a 20wt oil. It only shows a 0-30 will flow to the head much faster than a 15-40 at very cold temps. Is this hard to grasp?


OK, and you introduced it into a thread on 5W20 and 5W30 oils (note the 5W in both grades) as "proof" that 20s flow faster.

Originally Posted By: tig1
Just one reason I like 20wt oils is the faster delivery of oil to the cam and chain area in very cold temps. Here's a video showing painfully slower oil reaching the cam in cold temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


I'm trying to understand the relevence of the video that YOU linked to the thread, the comment that YOU made to the topic at hand ?

One can only assume that you had a point, that was made by presenting the video...or can't we ?


But now that we are on page, I don't think anyone has ever said that a 0W won't flow better at -40, particularly not myself, in spite of inferences. Plenty of people are pushing that a 0W will flow better at 32F...and they are wrong.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
The video says nothing about a 20wt oil. It only shows a 0-30 will flow to the head much faster than a 15-40 at very cold temps. Is this hard to grasp?


OK, and you introduced it into a thread on 5W20 and 5W30 oils (note the 5W in both grades) as "proof" that 20s flow faster.

Originally Posted By: tig1
Just one reason I like 20wt oils is the faster delivery of oil to the cam and chain area in very cold temps. Here's a video showing painfully slower oil reaching the cam in cold temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


I'm trying to understand the relevence of the video that YOU linked to the thread, the comment that YOU made to the topic at hand ?

One can only assume that you had a point, that was made by presenting the video...or can't we ?


But now that we are on page, I don't think anyone has ever said that a 0W won't flow better at -40, particularly not myself, in spite of inferences. Plenty of people are pushing that a 0W will flow better at 32F...and they are wrong.


My comments are about the video only. No need to infer anything. However some have posted in this thread that they recommend up to a 40wt in an engine calling for a 20WT. Actually my comments are directed toward you at all. No need to feel defensive.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.

In that video, as they clearly explain, they're testing cold pumping, not flow. You cannot adequately pump a 15w-40 at -35, since the oil is not designed for that. Note that my 5w-40 will work better in the video conditions than would a monograde 20.

 

[asker123]

From valvoline webpage

http://www.valvoline.com/auto-resources/motor-oil-faq-types

Is it ok to use 5W-30 in a car if the owner's manual calls for 5W-20?
Valvoline does not recommend doing this. Using a heavier grade than recommended may cause decrease in fuel economy, higher engine loads and eventually shortened engine life. Using a lighter grade than recommended may result in excessive mechanical wear and reduced engine life. For maximum engine performance, follow the recommended motor oil viscosity and maintenance schedule provided in your vehicle's owner's manual.


what does higher engine loads mean here?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: tig1
In the video they compare 15-40 to 0-30. Some here say the oil flow to the head is the same for either. That's bunk. Thinner oils flow much faster than thicker oils as proven by the video.

In that video, as they clearly explain, they're testing cold pumping, not flow. You cannot adequately pump a 15w-40 at -35, since the oil is not designed for that. Note that my 5w-40 will work better in the video conditions than would a monograde 20.


Bingo! You are correct! That's my point. Some in this thread claim they use 40wt oil in their engine that calls for a 20wt. However the "FLOW" of oil was very poor in this video for the 15-40. Also the video isn't about a 20wt. monograde. Also heavier oils may cause the filter bypass valve to kick in more often, increasing more unfiltered oil. Just sayin.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: tig1


The video says nothing about a 20wt oil. It only shows a 0-30 will flow to the head much faster than a 15-40 at very cold temps. Is this hard to grasp? I actually experienced this in the 70's while living in Maine with M1 5-20. I used Valvoline 10-40 in a Chevy V8 and had terrible upper end clatter in -15F and below temps on cold starts. I changed to M1 5-20 and there was no comparison. Engine cranked much faster and no clatter at all.


That's the point. The video says nothing about 20grade oils, yet it was introduced by you into this thread as some sort of "proof" of better cold flow in the 5w-20 vs. 5w-30 debate. The 2 oil grades used in the video are not 5w-20 or 5w-30. Fwiw, 0w-40 would have flowed well in that video. If there was a 0w-50, that also would have flowed well.

Ironically, you didn't even pay attention to your own posted video. At 6:23 of the video they mention the 2nd oil....a 10w-30. Nowhere can I find in the cam cold flow test anything about a 15W-40. At least get the facts straight from your own posted link.

The 10w is clearly not doing well in a -35c start up....taking 35 seconds to reach the first cam. Obviously, the 15w would be even worse. So for that ultra low temp in very cold Canadian or Maine winters, a 10w or higher doesn't work very well. I wouldn't use it either. This video does prove that a 30 grade oil (0w-30 in this case) flow VERY WELL at -35c. A plus for the 30 grade crowd.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
This video does prove that a 30 grade oil (0w-30 in this case) flow VERY WELL at -35c. A plus for the 30 grade crowd.


And they (intentionally) left 5W30 out of the mix which would have demonstrated the grey line rather than a sharp difference.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: asker123
what does higher engine loads mean here?


more frictional drag..the reason for the poorer economy.

 

[dblshock]

that video is really old though, no Delvac 1 5/40 in 1978.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Bingo! You are correct! That's my point. Some in this thread claim they use 40wt oil in their engine that calls for a 20wt. However the "FLOW" of oil was very poor in this video for the 15-40. Also the video isn't about a 20wt. monograde. Also heavier oils may cause the filter bypass valve to kick in more often, increasing more unfiltered oil. Just sayin.

Yes, but I'm not starting in -35 right now, nor are you. Shannow's already produced the papers that demonstrate that flow is the same when temperatures are reasonable - as in within the ranges of pumpability for an oil.

What I'm saying is that we can replicate those results, with good results for a 40 grade and bad results for a 20 grade, if you cherry pick.

 

[Nederlander75]

That video is beyond irrelevant to anyone but mothern Canada and parts of Russia.

 

[asker123]

Another paper on pumpability...5w30 seems to do fine at above freezing temps

http://www.csbe-scgab.ca/docs/journal/9/9_1_20_raw.pdf

 

[Shannow]

Nice find