5w20? Apparently not for this 5.4L
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Interesting note:
Every subsequent start the vehicle had today there was zero noise.
Dad is going to call me if it makes any noise tomorrow morning on the cold start.
Every subsequent start the vehicle had today there was zero noise.
Dad is going to call me if it makes any noise tomorrow morning on the cold start.
Ok first of all I'm NOT trying to start anything. I'm really wanting to figure out all what is continuously being posted here on BITOG and find fact or fiction using this incident.
1. Sounds like the truck has a few miles. Looks like Motorcraft oil till 60k then Mobil 1 5w30 for 3-5k mile OCIs with K&N / Pureone filters.
2. 80% highway driving with easy operation.
3. Little towing
4. KNOWN oil change history for life of vehicle.
Now with that hopefully being correct.
Questions.
1. If Mobil 1 cleans (all weights) and 5w30 was used for MANY OCIs (and SHORT OCIs at that) would not the engine be clean?
2. If Mobil 1 5w-20 cleans gunk that 5w30 Mobil 1 did not clean, what does that tell us about Mobil 1 5w30?
3. If syn oil keeps things clean and esp with easy hwy usage in a easy on the oil engine with short OCIs how did the sludge/gunk happen?
4. If Mobil 1 5w-20 cleans better than the other weights, would you NOT want to run it more to clean things out?
5. I think we would agree that the oil filters are top notch and are out of the discussion.
6. Would people agree that whatever crud was left from the dealership changes (if there was any) would have been cleaned from the short OCIs with syn oil?
7. Why would you want to cover up the possible problem using a heavier oil?
8. Would we agree that whatever has been used in the past is causing/leaving a problem and should NOT be continued?
We have at work a few left over F150s and Expeditions (98-03) and they have a ton of miles. While they have some problems (transmissions, power steering heard from miles away and cheap plastic parts) their engines are running fine with the lowest one having about 175k to well over 200k. And they get the you know what beaten on them daily.
Just wondering what you guys think? If crud/sludge was a issue then I'd think most of the trucks at work would have been dead a long time ago.
Take care, Bill
1. Sounds like the truck has a few miles. Looks like Motorcraft oil till 60k then Mobil 1 5w30 for 3-5k mile OCIs with K&N / Pureone filters.
2. 80% highway driving with easy operation.
3. Little towing
4. KNOWN oil change history for life of vehicle.
Now with that hopefully being correct.
Questions.
1. If Mobil 1 cleans (all weights) and 5w30 was used for MANY OCIs (and SHORT OCIs at that) would not the engine be clean?
2. If Mobil 1 5w-20 cleans gunk that 5w30 Mobil 1 did not clean, what does that tell us about Mobil 1 5w30?
3. If syn oil keeps things clean and esp with easy hwy usage in a easy on the oil engine with short OCIs how did the sludge/gunk happen?
4. If Mobil 1 5w-20 cleans better than the other weights, would you NOT want to run it more to clean things out?
5. I think we would agree that the oil filters are top notch and are out of the discussion.
6. Would people agree that whatever crud was left from the dealership changes (if there was any) would have been cleaned from the short OCIs with syn oil?
7. Why would you want to cover up the possible problem using a heavier oil?
8. Would we agree that whatever has been used in the past is causing/leaving a problem and should NOT be continued?
We have at work a few left over F150s and Expeditions (98-03) and they have a ton of miles. While they have some problems (transmissions, power steering heard from miles away and cheap plastic parts) their engines are running fine with the lowest one having about 175k to well over 200k. And they get the you know what beaten on them daily.
Just wondering what you guys think? If crud/sludge was a issue then I'd think most of the trucks at work would have been dead a long time ago.
Take care, Bill
Bill, you raise some excellent points as usual. It would seem to me that the dispersant package in the oil was overwhelmed to say the least. But the real question is why? Was it cleaning old junk, or did the engine produce more combustion by-products and why?
I'm really curious now but I'm not sure if the cause will ever be definitively found beyond our speculation.
I'm really curious now but I'm not sure if the cause will ever be definitively found beyond our speculation.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Bill:
Great post.
I am going to address #7 specifically:
When I ran the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck in MY Expedition, I noticed a continuation of the carbon deposit trends in my oil filter. This would indicate to me, that it is performing the same "level" of cleaning that my maiden run of 5w20 did. But the engine is quieter on the 5w40, and the big thing for me was the elimination of consumption.
From my results with the 0w40 in the Lincoln (and really, this oil is barely a 40-weight anyways) I feel confident that it would be providing perhaps some better protection than the 5w20, while providing the same, if not a better level of cleaning.
I have no idea where the carbon is coming from or why it is there and that is a genuine concern. This engine should not have ANY buildup of ANYTHING in it given its history.
Maybe there is something to the argument that thinner oil gets into the ring lands. Though I can't see the rather small difference between the 5w20 and 5w30 showing up as such a LARGE difference in what I've now observed with this filter and oil.
There are a lot of questions and I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me to not know the answers to them.
Great post.
I am going to address #7 specifically:
When I ran the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck in MY Expedition, I noticed a continuation of the carbon deposit trends in my oil filter. This would indicate to me, that it is performing the same "level" of cleaning that my maiden run of 5w20 did. But the engine is quieter on the 5w40, and the big thing for me was the elimination of consumption.
From my results with the 0w40 in the Lincoln (and really, this oil is barely a 40-weight anyways) I feel confident that it would be providing perhaps some better protection than the 5w20, while providing the same, if not a better level of cleaning.
I have no idea where the carbon is coming from or why it is there and that is a genuine concern. This engine should not have ANY buildup of ANYTHING in it given its history.
Maybe there is something to the argument that thinner oil gets into the ring lands. Though I can't see the rather small difference between the 5w20 and 5w30 showing up as such a LARGE difference in what I've now observed with this filter and oil.
There are a lot of questions and I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me to not know the answers to them.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: crinkles
who says it is cleaning anything? maybe it is MAKING the deposits?
I have a hard time picturing Mobil 1 5w20 creating hard granules of carbon........
who says it is cleaning anything? maybe it is MAKING the deposits?
I have a hard time picturing Mobil 1 5w20 creating hard granules of carbon........
Any chance of taking apart the valve cover and having a look inside in the near future?
What's the long term gameplan?
What's the long term gameplan?
Last edited:
I think there is another issue where an occasional change of grade of oil and brand might have some merit. Sometimes a slight change in chemistry does some added cleaning, or cleans something another grade/brand didn't. Maybe a certain grade of oil from the XOM line up (or any company for that matter) is better at cleaning hardened carbon, and lacks in cleaning varnish or sludge? Just one example, there are several others. Something to think about. JMO
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Any chance of taking apart the valve cover and having a look inside in the near future?
What's the long term gameplan?
No.
This vehicle is not mine, and unless something dies on it (highly unlikely, it has been incredibly reliable) I doubt there will be any sort of tearing into it.
Any chance of taking apart the valve cover and having a look inside in the near future?
What's the long term gameplan?
No.
This vehicle is not mine, and unless something dies on it (highly unlikely, it has been incredibly reliable) I doubt there will be any sort of tearing into it.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Update:
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Any chance of taking apart the valve cover and having a look inside in the near future?
What's the long term gameplan?
No.
This vehicle is not mine, and unless something dies on it (highly unlikely, it has been incredibly reliable) I doubt there will be any sort of tearing into it.
Agree! No NEED to look under a cover as it really does not tell us 100% of what the rest of the engine is doing.
(If I've got to look around, I'd rather look at the bottom end)
Bill
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Any chance of taking apart the valve cover and having a look inside in the near future?
What's the long term gameplan?
No.
This vehicle is not mine, and unless something dies on it (highly unlikely, it has been incredibly reliable) I doubt there will be any sort of tearing into it.
Agree! No NEED to look under a cover as it really does not tell us 100% of what the rest of the engine is doing.
(If I've got to look around, I'd rather look at the bottom end)
Bill
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I say that the 5w30 offering was mostly Group III and that the differences in chemistry (that may be inclusive in 0w-40/5w-40/0w-20) was responsible for the disruption of resident formations.
If OVERKILL had continued to use 0w-20, and not gone to TTD, consumption may have retreated. Consumption ..at least with some abrupt onset, doesn't necessarily prove some lack of suitability in service. It can be transitional.
..and ..I agree with just about all of Bill's points. It's a blind faith belief that all M1's are create equal in all terms that we "want to believe" (cleaning and whatever else one would anoint them with oil ..so to speak).
If OVERKILL had continued to use 0w-20, and not gone to TTD, consumption may have retreated. Consumption ..at least with some abrupt onset, doesn't necessarily prove some lack of suitability in service. It can be transitional.
..and ..I agree with just about all of Bill's points. It's a blind faith belief that all M1's are create equal in all terms that we "want to believe" (cleaning and whatever else one would anoint them with oil ..so to speak).
No it was not doing any cleaning and if it was then shame on it. It takes super high ester level in an oil for it too do any cleaning and when they do clean it is a bad thing not a good thing. If you make an oil expend it's chemistry cleaning then it has less chemistry left to protect the engine from wear. This is why we have ARX it's chemistry does the cleaning leaving the oils chemistry intact to keep wear and tear in check.
So unless MI is not useing 60% POE in their oil I think we can rule out the cleaning effect. Any oil will clean some if the engine is dirty enough but in general they are not meant to clean rather to keep the engine from getting any dirtier follow.
So unless MI is not useing 60% POE in their oil I think we can rule out the cleaning effect. Any oil will clean some if the engine is dirty enough but in general they are not meant to clean rather to keep the engine from getting any dirtier follow.
Also what oil that is sold over the counter is better then Mobil 1 0W20 or 5W20? None last time I checked! So he would have to step up to Redline to get anything better! When Ford was back dating engines they where useing their Motor Craft 5W20 anything that is as good or better then Motor Craft 5W20 should work fine if this engine is truly designed and built to handle 5W20 and 0W20 oils. He should not need to find anything better then Motorcraft if the back dated TSB is in fact correct.
So which was a more suitable oil then? The 5w30 or the 5w20?
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Update:
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
The symptoms sound like a hydraulic tappet that had the oil drain out while parked. A minute or two of running is all it often takes to pump it back up. The problem may come back or not; tappets can be like that.
Update:
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
The symptoms sound like a hydraulic tappet that had the oil drain out while parked. A minute or two of running is all it often takes to pump it back up. The problem may come back or not; tappets can be like that.
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Also what oil that is sold over the counter is better then Mobil 1 0W20 or 5W20? None last time I checked! So he would have to step up to Redline to get anything better! When Ford was back dating engines they where useing their Motor Craft 5W20 anything that is as good or better then Motor Craft 5W20 should work fine if this engine is truly designed and built to handle 5W20 and 0W20 oils. He should not need to find anything better then Motorcraft if the back dated TSB is in fact correct.
PP claims to clean out 46% of sludge build-up in one oil change.
I prefer Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 to Mobil 1 because it's lighter and has a slightly better VI.
Also what oil that is sold over the counter is better then Mobil 1 0W20 or 5W20? None last time I checked! So he would have to step up to Redline to get anything better! When Ford was back dating engines they where useing their Motor Craft 5W20 anything that is as good or better then Motor Craft 5W20 should work fine if this engine is truly designed and built to handle 5W20 and 0W20 oils. He should not need to find anything better then Motorcraft if the back dated TSB is in fact correct.
PP claims to clean out 46% of sludge build-up in one oil change.
I prefer Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 to Mobil 1 because it's lighter and has a slightly better VI.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Update:
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
The symptoms sound like a hydraulic tappet that had the oil drain out while parked. A minute or two of running is all it often takes to pump it back up. The problem may come back or not; tappets can be like that.
The engine is SOHC. Though it does have hydraulic lash adjusters. My money is on the chain tensioner from the amount of noise dad was describing.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Update:
So dad popped over this morning to tell me that it made ZERO noise this morning, was as quiet as a mouse and he was quite happy about it.
Liquid_Turbo:
The long-term game plan is to drive it until the wheels fall off. If the 0w40 gives us better OCI's, then that's what we'll stick with.
The symptoms sound like a hydraulic tappet that had the oil drain out while parked. A minute or two of running is all it often takes to pump it back up. The problem may come back or not; tappets can be like that.
The engine is SOHC. Though it does have hydraulic lash adjusters. My money is on the chain tensioner from the amount of noise dad was describing.
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