5w20? Apparently not for this 5.4L

[OVERKILL]

As you all know, the last oil change in my parents Expedition (not mine) was a switch from Mobil 1 5w30 to Mobil 1 5w20. This vehicle and engine were back-spec'd to 5w20 so this shouldn't have been an issue.

But it apparently was.

Dad changed the oil out probably 6 months ago. Mobil 1 5w20, K&N filter. The vehicle has since then hauled two U-haul trailers a distance of 1,528Km each, the most recent being two weeks ago.

Dad fired up the truck the other day, it is the first time I've heard it run since the switch to 5w20. Sounded like it had bloody rod knock!

I know it is NOT rod knock though, as the engine began to get a little quieter as it ran.

This engine has NEVER made noise. It has never had piston slap or timing chain noise. This is NEW.

Dad was understandably concerned as well, as he had noticed this happening since their last big tow.

Oil had about 7,000Km on it.

So, we took the opportunity to "step it up a notch" on the oil grade.

Dumped the 5w20, which looked absolutely disgusting, and filled with Mobil 1 0w40 and a Fleetguard Stratapore filter.

Started it up, noise was MUCH less pronounced and continued to get quieter and quieter until after about 2 minutes, it was almost completely gone. Took it for a nice long run and when we returned the noise was no longer audible.

Dad does not know a lot about oil. He doesn't want to. But during our trip, he turned to me and stated that the engine was a LOT quieter now, and he was surprised. Considering I had made NO mention about how the engine itself sounded (other than the obvious noise we were trying to get rid of, which was ONLY audible from OUTSIDE the vehicle), this kind of surprised me.

I have the filter from the truck and will cut it open and post pics later tonight.

I have a good sized sample of the oil from the truck and will be sending it off to TOROMONT CAT to be analyzed like the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck from my truck was.

Dad is now asking about using this oil in his Lincoln... The quieting factor seems to have had an effect on him......

 

[MarkC]

Are you sure it was the oil and not the filter?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MarkC
Are you sure it was the oil and not the filter?


It was doing it warm. Definitely not the filter. This wasn't start-up noise, it was continuous.

 

[BuickGN]

It must be the 20wt cleaning the "nooks and crannies" that the 30wt couldn't get to. Or wait, maybe the bearings were "used to" the thicker stuff and didn't have time to adjust.

Glad you got it resolved. Hopefully the noise stays gone.

Did you post the used oil analysis of the 0w-40 yet?

 

[Captain_Klink]

obviously not changing oil frequently enough, if it came out black.
i always change oil BEFORE doing another strenuous trailer haul.
if he noticed it since the last big tow, he should have changed the oil then, not now, and not waited so long. waiting is not going to make a bad noise better.
what is the oil change interval for "severe duty"? according to manual.

 

[addyguy]

You're having good results with Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 in yours. Simplify things for both of you, and just run it in your folks truck as well.

 

[Billy_D]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
...
what is the oil change interval for "severe duty"? according to manual.


I think it's 3000 miles according to Ford.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
obviously not changing oil frequently enough, if it came out black.
i always change oil BEFORE doing another strenuous trailer haul.
if he noticed it since the last big tow, he should have changed the oil then, not now, and not waited so long. waiting is not going to make a bad noise better.
what is the oil change interval for "severe duty"? according to manual.


The last big tow was last week. It wasn't a "long time".

He changes it 5-7,000km, which is MORE frequently than what I change mine at and this is the FIRST time the oil has EVER gone THIS dark to my knowledge.

Severe duty is 5,000Km on Conventional oil. This was syn obviously, it should have EASILY been able to handle the 7,000Km that it MIGHT have had on it. It may have been less, dad still has to check.

I drive harder, I've towed more, and I generally beat on mine MUCH more than he does. He drives like a beaty old lady. And I run longer OCI's and never have issues. But then, I am also using 5w40.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
It must be the 20wt cleaning the "nooks and crannies" that the 30wt couldn't get to. Or wait, maybe the bearings were "used to" the thicker stuff and didn't have time to adjust.

Glad you got it resolved. Hopefully the noise stays gone.

Did you post the used oil analysis of the 0w-40 yet?


The 0w40 from my Townie? No, hasn't come back from TOROMONT yet.

Pics of the filter from this 5w20 OCI will be up in about 10 minutes, just need to upload them now.

Interestingly enough, the carbon junk that accrued in my filter when I ran the 5w20.... Also showed up in this filter.

This engine has had Mobil 1 5w30 religiously for the last few years. It shouldn't be "dirty".

 

[PT1]

I am not a fan of back specing engine oil grades. I would have stuck with the 5w30. Call me crazy but the original engine spec was a 5w30 when it was made. So the justification is not warranted IMO. Now with ATF I will back spec because the newer ATF's are better IMO. But engine oils..no way.

 

[Bill in Utah]

So the carbon you are seeing is the Mobil 1 5w-20 cleaning?

Interesting.

Maybe there is something that quite a few of the oil companies STATING that you should change the oil at the OEM recommended OCI (which for Ford severe duty is 3k miles) no matter what type of oil used?

Take care, bill

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: PT1
I am not a fan of back specing engine oil grades. I would have stuck with the 5w30.


Agree 100%

Even if my Toyota was incl in the TSB to run 5w-20, I think I'd would have stayed with 5w30 since it is doing so well.

 

[Jason8691]

My 5.4 doesn't knock on 5W20, but it will use it where it won't with 5W30. I can mix 20 weight with a 30 or 40 wight and it will be fine, but not with a strait 20.

 

[JohnBrowning]

First a Uhaul trailer should not be sever duty for a full size pickup truck! Uhaul trailer that you have to tow are not that large in fact cars often pull them front wheel drive car's I might add! 7000Km's is just a tad more then 4200miles is nothing for a synthetic oil!

If it did not like the 5W20 it did not like the 5W20 that is not a big deal. Anyone that thinks going 1200 miles more then OEM sever service recomends is a signifcant factor for a synthetic oil does not really understand how the oils work and function with reguard to stress in regaurds to a dino versus a good synthetic. Also at what weight does it become sever service when towing. If I tow a single jet ski behind a 1 ton pickup truck is that sever service becasue I am towing or does common sense step in and say no a 300lbs jet ski is not a significant load to be towing not any worse then having two adults inthe truck with you!

It is not like he was towing a 26 foot-50 foot sale boat or yacht through the Rocky Mountains!

Was this the first time it has seen synthetic? What have the past OCI's been and with what type of oil? How many miles? How come I do nto see any pictures in this thread?

 

[chevrofreak]

Perhaps if a better 5W-20 had been used.......

 

[ADFD1]

I wonder if this makes any sense. I read all these A-rX threads, talking about different noises an engine makes while its being cleaned and rinsed, then in time they go away and all is good. I know you didn't add A-rX, but perhaps the thinner oil was doing some cleaning, just like A-rX would do, and the noise was a result of the cleaning? You did say the oil came out disgusting, more so than normal. Maybe the oil was beat from doing some cleaning. I'm almost inclined to try it again, or to go back to what the engine was originally spec'd for and call it a day.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
First a U haul trailer should not be severe duty for a full size pickup truck! U haul trailers that you have to tow are not that large in fact cars often pull them front wheel drive car's I might add! 7000Km's is just a tad more then 4200miles is nothing for a synthetic oil!

If it did not like the 5W20 it did not like the 5W20 that is not a big deal. Anyone that thinks going 1200 miles more then OEM sever service recommends is a significant factor for a synthetic oil does not really understand how the oils work and function with regard to stress in regards to a dino versus a good synthetic.

Also at what weight does it become sever service when towing. If I tow a single jet ski behind a 1 ton pickup truck is that sever service because I am towing or does common sense step in and say no a 300lbs jet ski is not a significant load to be towing not any worse then having two adults in the truck with you!

It is not like he was towing a 26 foot-50 foot sale boat or yacht through the Rocky Mountains!

Was this the first time it has seen synthetic? What have the past OCI's been and with what type of oil? How many miles? How come I do not see any pictures in this thread?



What about the oil companies telling customers that run syn to FOLLOW the MFG recommended OCI?

I guess they don't know anything about syn oils.

The OP said;

Quote:
As you all know, the last oil change in my parents Expedition (not mine) was a switch from Mobil 1 5w30 to Mobil 1 5w20.



And;
Quote:
This engine has had Mobil 1 5w30 religiously for the last few years. It shouldn't be "dirty".



Photos are here... --> Oil filter photos

Also some U Haul trailers HAVE to be TOWED with a FULL SIZE truck due to weight and possible loads. A 12 foot trailer loaded weighs over 5000 lbs as I towed one a few miles.

Bill

 

[Liquid_Turbo]

Hey Overkill,

Didn't you make a post a while back that said an oil change came out REALLY clean when you first bought the Expedition? Now the 5w20 came out filthy?

 

[demarpaint]

Maybe the oil was spent, and maybe it did do some cleaning. Millions of Fords are doing just fine on 5W20 oil. I know landscapers towing trailers off the back of F-Series P/U's 6 days a week, stop and go, using cheap 5w20 conventional, and these trucks are just fine.

 

[jorton]

I can't find the post but I know there was recently an uoa Mobil 1 5w-20 that showed 1300-1400 ppm calcium. That's too low for synthetic. I think overk1ll's dad got an oc from that batch.

I wouldn't deliberately use a bad oil for high speed towing in a vehicle this heavy and with so much wind resistance, and Mobil 1 5w-20 from that batch is bad oil. 10w30 ep is GOOD OIL.