5w-40 Beginning TBNs

[mikeintx]

Hey fellow oil enthusiasts,
I'm trying to compare beginning TBN numbers on 5w-40 synthetic diesel oils. I'm having trouble finding the specs. This is what I have versus what I don't...

T6 9.84
Mobil DELVAC 12.?
Valvoline Blue line
NAPA HD
Chevron DELO XSP

I ask to make sure I get the best protection since I do a lot of short trips and a fair amount of idling. I do pay attention to the trucks oil life monitor. The truck is a '17 Ram 1500 w/3.0L Ecodiesel.

Thanks for all input and recommendations in advance.

 

[fantastic]

Hey fellow oil enthusiasts,
I'm trying to compare beginning TBN numbers on 5w-40 synthetic diesel oils. I'm having trouble finding the specs. This is what I have versus what I don't...

T6 9.84
Mobil DELVAC 12.?
Valvoline Blue line
NAPA HD
Chevron DELO XSP

I ask to make sure I get the best protection since I do a lot of short trips and a fair amount of idling. I do pay attention to the trucks oil life monitor. The truck is a '17 Ram 1500 w/3.0L Ecodiesel.

Thanks for all input and recommendations in advance.

The link below might help you. What I've learned is TBN that is shown on the pdf's are usually lower in reality.

Diesel Oil Database

Here's Delo xsp 10.1

Again, after seeing VOA testing usually shows less than the TBN shown on the PDF manuals.

 

[mikeintx]

The link below might help you. What I've learned is TBN that is shown on the pdf's are usually lower in reality.

Diesel Oil Database

Here's Delo xsp 10.1

Again, after seeing VOA testing usually shows less than the TBN shown on the PDF manuals.

Thanks Fantastic! I'm sure there is variances between batches too. Just like the T6 value I quoted was from a YouTuber sending a new sample off to B.S. labs. He had other ones he compared but I don't remember them. Of course, my memory isn't always right!

Thinks for the tables and data!

Any other suggestions?

 

[doitmyself]

Are you looking for this info to help analyze after-use oil test reports or to judge new oil quality? Keep in mind that the quality of TBN (and other) additives could vary, so that an oil starting at 9 could actually be better than one starting at 12.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Thanks Fantastic! I'm sure there is variances between batches too. Just like the T6 value I quoted was from a YouTuber sending a new sample off to B.S. labs. He had other ones he compared but I don't remember them. Of course, my memory isn't always right!

Thinks for the tables and data!

Any other suggestions?

Yes, another suggestion: TBN depletion is not linear, and is not always the same between oils. One oil may show a precipitous drop in measured TBN at low mileage, but then maintain at a stable level for thousands of additional miles. Another oil may appear to have a higher TBN than oil #1 at the initial measurement, but then continue to lose TBN rapidly or even accelerate as miles accumulate. The only way to know for sure is via OA testing on each oil, in your application.

If you’re trying to extend your OCIs to the max based on TBN alone (not a great idea), HPL is probably going to be top two for TBN retention, because it’s choices of additives that contribute to TBN are very robust and their oils are specifically designed to stretch OCIs.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Are you looking for this info to help analyze after-use oil test reports or to judge new oil quality? Keep in mind that the quality of TBN (and other) additives could vary, so that an oil starting at 9 could actually be better than one starting at 12.

Also, there are a virgin and used oil TBN test, and they are not closely correlated; most labs only use the used oil TBN method; and ashless detergents measure significantly lower than “older” oils because of the way they neutralize acids.

The “accepted” correlation of a VOA using a used oil TBN test on oils with ashless detergents is to add ~1.5-2.0 to the number to get an idea of “old school TBN” but it’s kind of a moot point. Is your oil measuring 2.0 or greater on TBN at your sampling point? If so, the oil survived to that point, but it’s a good idea to stop the run there if this was an in-service sample.

 

[blufeb95]

I doubt you'll be depleting the TBN of any CK-4 oil before you need to change the oil because of soot or other factors, TBN is mostly a measure of how much highly alkaline metallic additives are in the oil, these additives mostly deal with strong acids produced during combustion which are significantly less of a problem since all diesel fuel in the developed world now has less than 15ppm of sulfur, the sulfur was the primary source of strong acids in the crankcase before ULSD.

 

[mikeintx]

Thanks for the replies. I'm learning a lot here.

Not looking to extend OCI. I follow the engine oil monitor but typical is around 10k in the past but I've moved and do more inner city small town driving and a fair amount of idling like at a drive thru or Sonic type restaurant. So was looking for the best oil with a good base TBN start number to insure I have a good amount of detergent ability to start with.

I have done UOA before. The latest one had 7,720 miles on the used oil (T6 5w-40) and the TBN was 3.4.

 

[fantastic]

Thanks for the replies. I'm learning a lot here.

Not looking to extend OCI. I follow the engine oil monitor but typical is around 10k in the past but I've moved and do more inner city small town driving and a fair amount of idling like at a drive thru or Sonic type restaurant. So was looking for the best oil with a good base TBN start number to insure I have a good amount of detergent ability to start with.

I have done UOA before. The latest one had 7,720 miles on the used oil (T6 5w-40) and the TBN was 3.4.

I would imagine you could finish driving an extra 2,280 miles, to 10k, & be just fine. Example: If an oil has a starting 9 TBN, according to your numbers, you would be at 1.75 TBN remaining at 10k. Don't go below 1 TBN.

 

[mikeintx]

I would imagine you could finish driving an extra 2,280 miles, to 10k, & be just fine. Example: If an oil has a starting 9 TBN, according to your numbers, you would be at 1.75 TBN remaining at 10k. Don't go below 1 TBN.

Right, that's what Blackstone said in the notes of the analysis. I have also noticed the oil monitor does a pretty good job. More highway miles equal longer OCIs and shorter runs w/idling equals shorter OCI indications hence the last one at 7720.

 

[fantastic]

Right, that's what Blackstone said in the notes of the analysis. I have also noticed the oil monitor does a pretty good job. More highway miles equal longer OCIs and shorter runs w/idling equals shorter OCI indications hence the last one at 7720.

Yes, the Oil Monitor incorporates speed, distance, time, etc. It will know when you are travelling long miles instead of city & consequently extend the Oil change interval. Just do some more digging & go with what you think is best. There really is no wrong in this scenario.

 

[mikeintx]

Yes, the Oil Monitor incorporates speed, distance, time, etc. It will know when you are travelling long miles instead of city & consequently extend the Oil change interval. Just do some more digging & go with what you think is best. There really is no wrong in this scenario.

Thanks..I didn't think there was but when you look at the costs of some of these oils, one has to wonder if there's a justification for the higher prices or is it just a name. I mean T6 can be had for about 24 per 1gal at WM. Some of the others are 14 dollars or more for the same size container. So just made me curious and down the proverbial rabbit hole I began to go...LOL

 

[Shel_B]

I'm trying to compare beginning TBN numbers on 5w-40 synthetic diesel oils. I'm having trouble finding the specs. This is what I have versus what I don't...

T6 9.84
Mobil DELVAC 12.?
Valvoline Blue line
NAPA HD
Chevron DELO XSP

 

[fantastic]

Thanks..I didn't think there was but when you look at the costs of some of these oils, one has to wonder if there's a justification for the higher prices or is it just a name. I mean T6 can be had for about 24 per 1gal at WM. Some of the others are 14 dollars or more for the same size container. So just made me curious and down the proverbial rabbit hole I began to go...LOL

You're very welcome. If you're just needing 1 gallon jug, for an oil change, then you can't go wrong with the price of T6. It starts to get expensive for bigger sumps like my 15qts truck. If you want to save a few bucks then grab one of my new favorites Mobil Extreme 15w-40. It's more like a "Blend" similar to T5. I think I saw recently it was $19.95 for a gallon.

 

[blufeb95]

You're very welcome. If you're just needing 1 gallon jug, for an oil change, then you can't go wrong with the price of T6. It starts to get expensive for bigger sumps like my 15qts truck. If you want to save a few bucks then grab one of my new favorites Mobil Extreme 15w-40. It's more like a "Blend" similar to T5. I think I saw recently it was $19.95 for a gallon.

For the OPs application, if I recall correctly the Ecodiesel you'll need 3 gallons or a 2.5 gallon jug with a spare quart.

 

[Greasymechtech]

If the OLM is adjusting for your driving ability, then pick any oil and don't worry about it. You're using a synthetic and a 5w40.
With ULSD, TBN shouldn't be a concern until you either run extended intervals, or higher sulfur off road fuels.

T6 is on Ford's better than API list. Many 5w40's didn't make it here:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

 

[blufeb95]

If you're gonna run HDEO in it instead of the Chrysler/Fiat approved Euro Oil (Quaker State Euro 5W40 is the easiest to locate) and you live in Texas, then 15W40 RT6, Delo XSP, or Delvac Extreme may be a decent option.

 

[mikeintx]

You're very welcome. If you're just needing 1 gallon jug, for an oil change, then you can't go wrong with the price of T6. It starts to get expensive for bigger sumps like my 15qts truck. If you want to save a few bucks then grab one of my new favorites Mobil Extreme 15w-40. It's more like a "Blend" similar to T5. I think I saw recently it was $19.95 for a gallon.

Hey Fantastic,
The truck holds 10.5 qts of oil according to the manual.

 

[mikeintx]

If you're gonna run HDEO in it instead of the Chrysler/Fiat approved Euro Oil (Quaker State Euro 5W40 is the easiest to locate) and you live in Texas, then 15W40 RT6, Delo XSP, or Delvac Extreme may be a decent option.

Not sure I get your point here. My manual states from the book...

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required.

 

[blufeb95]

They changed their recommendation so many times on that engine, at first they recommended something that was ACEA C3 based, then they recommended the CJ-4 oil, then they recommended a Fiat/Chrysler approval that's derived from A3/B4 that's carried on the Quaker State Euro 5W-40, check with your dealer for the latest recommendation is on the most recent service bulletin.
If you're gonna stick with HDEO in it in a warm climate I'd just use 15W40.