how can you disagree? used oil analysis prove that 5w-20 is very shear stable. yes, 5w-20 does shear, but not signifigantly. which probably goes back to post drivebelt made about 5w-20's being able to be so thin, because they are such well formulated oils. i dont want to put words into his mouth, thats just what i remember reading but i could be wrong.
5W-20 question
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Perhaps you can provide some links to used oil analysis claiming they retain their weight without shearing much if at all?
I am not being combative just skeptical.
I am not being combative just skeptical.
Even if he posted 3 supporting used oil analysis, you'd need to look at a data bank of 5W20 used oil analysis and check the database for a TREND towards shearing.
He could pick 3 supporting used oil analysis and they could just be the ONLY used oil analysis out of hundreds supporting his case.
He could pick 3 supporting used oil analysis and they could just be the ONLY used oil analysis out of hundreds supporting his case.
Very true.
I'd say use what the manual tells you for the conditions of operations that relate. If relative conditions aren't given, then use their recommendation as a starting point and do a used oil analysis. With some results in hand, work from there.
Remember though, NO single used oil analysis is of much value as far as lube unless you have something to compair it to, and thus it would be best to trend used oil analysis and note operating conditions and state of tune (maintenance intervals on wear parts - filters, plugs, wires, etc.). used oil analysis on other vehicles with the same engine would be remote for suggestions to getting what works best for YOUR engine in IT's condition of operation, but sometimes it may seem all we have to work with for the moment.
With increasing recommendations made buy manufactures to use 20wt oils, I would also think that further improvements have been made in the areas of temperature control - engine block via coolant and oil via block/rad.. Nothing new, but perhaps better matched cooling components and more controlled operating temps (multi-speed electric fans, etc.). Of course vehicles could also have become more limited in their intended use and thus have less extremes to deal with, such as recomendations on towing...if at all.
Remember though, NO single used oil analysis is of much value as far as lube unless you have something to compair it to, and thus it would be best to trend used oil analysis and note operating conditions and state of tune (maintenance intervals on wear parts - filters, plugs, wires, etc.). used oil analysis on other vehicles with the same engine would be remote for suggestions to getting what works best for YOUR engine in IT's condition of operation, but sometimes it may seem all we have to work with for the moment.
With increasing recommendations made buy manufactures to use 20wt oils, I would also think that further improvements have been made in the areas of temperature control - engine block via coolant and oil via block/rad.. Nothing new, but perhaps better matched cooling components and more controlled operating temps (multi-speed electric fans, etc.). Of course vehicles could also have become more limited in their intended use and thus have less extremes to deal with, such as recomendations on towing...if at all.
Buford,
I am going to put the burden of proof on you so you can assure yourself of the source of your information. Find a 5w20 used oil analysis that "sheared" out of grade. You will find some that lost some viscosity due to fuel dilution but they are well within grade. Go to uoa and search 5w20. If in doubt go to the PDS of the manufacturer and find the supposed starting viscosity. If the viscosity on the uoa is given in SUS and not Cst @100c then go to the homepage and go to "viscosity" and use the formula on the bottom of that pagee to convert.
Prove that 5w20's shear as much as ILsac approved 5w30's or even ILSAC 10w30's. THen make your decisions and assumptions on facts that YOU put together.
I am going to put the burden of proof on you so you can assure yourself of the source of your information. Find a 5w20 used oil analysis that "sheared" out of grade. You will find some that lost some viscosity due to fuel dilution but they are well within grade. Go to uoa and search 5w20. If in doubt go to the PDS of the manufacturer and find the supposed starting viscosity. If the viscosity on the uoa is given in SUS and not Cst @100c then go to the homepage and go to "viscosity" and use the formula on the bottom of that pagee to convert.
Prove that 5w20's shear as much as ILsac approved 5w30's or even ILSAC 10w30's. THen make your decisions and assumptions on facts that YOU put together.
You prove it. You made the claim. Motor oil shears with use.
This article answered a lot of questions for me...
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=518&relatedbookgroup=Maintenance
I am sticking with 5w30.
[ May 17, 2006, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: Buford T. Justice ]
This article answered a lot of questions for me...
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=518&relatedbookgroup=Maintenance
I am sticking with 5w30.
[ May 17, 2006, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: Buford T. Justice ]
Also...
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm <== Not to Buy Their SynLube™ Oil, just for 5W-20 info only.
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm <== Not to Buy Their SynLube™ Oil, just for 5W-20 info only.
Bingo. Also note that most of these self appointed experts got that way after reading a few magazine articles or product websites, which they are fond of posting links to to prove their expertise.
I am done here. If someone doesn't want to run it when they can it is their loss.
it seems like every week we go over this. a newer member is skeptical about 5w-20, and wants the members of the board who trust 5w-20 to defend their stance and why they trust the oil. im not gonna go pull a bunch of used oil analysis to prove 5w-20 is an excellent oil. ive been using it for 93,000mi and my car still runs as strong, if not better than the day i drove it out of the lot with 3 miles and it does not burn a drop of oil.
Well jeez guys, if all you want to do is post a few statements here, lock them down, and tell people to use their owner's manual, then why even have forums to discuss???
You CAN ignore these threads, can't you?
Sometimes, you "vets" (not military, but forum) are annoying...
Scott
You CAN ignore these threads, can't you?
Sometimes, you "vets" (not military, but forum) are annoying...
Scott
I think you already did
Anyway. Even searching has limitations.
I was looking for info last week on Kendall Synthetic oil - all the posts were pretty much a few years old, and IMO, weren't that useful to me.
I frequent a lot of forums, and even mod a couple, but I think there has to be some latitude given and some intelligent filtering done by the more seasoned members.
If all we wanted was a static list of info, forums would be unnecessary.
Scott
Anyway. Even searching has limitations.
I was looking for info last week on Kendall Synthetic oil - all the posts were pretty much a few years old, and IMO, weren't that useful to me.
I frequent a lot of forums, and even mod a couple, but I think there has to be some latitude given and some intelligent filtering done by the more seasoned members.
If all we wanted was a static list of info, forums would be unnecessary.
Scott
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Well, Scott, there's something that you could refer to as "truth in advertising" from the membership. There's a great deal of resistance to the use of 5w-20 oils. It's just like the resistance that there was to 5w30 when it was first spec'd in just about everything under the sun. No one wanted to touch it ..clinging to experience with older, antiquated, oil formulations.
The 5w-20 are exactly what they're cracked up to be. They're shear stable and provide ample protection for just about anything that routinely spec'd a 5w30 since those engines were already subjected to 20 weight oil due to the shearing of 5w30 oils.
What do you want? To have the membership lie to you and say that they're junk and will destroy your engine ..when all evidence points 180° out from this opinion??
Some will say that it's just for CAFE ..which has a high degee of merit to it, but that doesn't mean that higher sales is the only byproduct of it. Oil technology advanced because of it. You don't have to experience the savings in fuel from using it, if you so desire. Your typical usage may not benefit in any measurable way from its use. The fact remains that in terms of parasitic losses, this oil simulates a "head start" to full warm up, cutting out so many minutes of the warm up process. The majority of the rolling population doesn't run over 20 minutes during their commute and are pumping substantially heavier oil during that time. Those who actually reach warm up, are seeing the same visc that they would see anyway over the course of a normal OCI. Even if you stretch the commute out to 40 minutes ..you're only at the spec visc for half of it. That is, 50% of your commute is in warm up.
I think that a whole bunch of engines can use this oil without a care in the world. They've survived on shearing 5w30 for decades and well over 100k miles. What more do you want
The 5w-20 are exactly what they're cracked up to be. They're shear stable and provide ample protection for just about anything that routinely spec'd a 5w30 since those engines were already subjected to 20 weight oil due to the shearing of 5w30 oils.
What do you want? To have the membership lie to you and say that they're junk and will destroy your engine ..when all evidence points 180° out from this opinion??
Some will say that it's just for CAFE ..which has a high degee of merit to it, but that doesn't mean that higher sales is the only byproduct of it. Oil technology advanced because of it. You don't have to experience the savings in fuel from using it, if you so desire. Your typical usage may not benefit in any measurable way from its use. The fact remains that in terms of parasitic losses, this oil simulates a "head start" to full warm up, cutting out so many minutes of the warm up process. The majority of the rolling population doesn't run over 20 minutes during their commute and are pumping substantially heavier oil during that time. Those who actually reach warm up, are seeing the same visc that they would see anyway over the course of a normal OCI. Even if you stretch the commute out to 40 minutes ..you're only at the spec visc for half of it. That is, 50% of your commute is in warm up.
I think that a whole bunch of engines can use this oil without a care in the world. They've survived on shearing 5w30 for decades and well over 100k miles. What more do you want
ScottB the problem isn't so much the weekly "Is 5W20 safe?" question. These things generally get derailed by someone of very limited experience taking a stubborn stance based on an old article or propaganda from some obscure products ads.When they are given evidence or facts contrary to what they believe they just dismiss it outright as wrong. It's dificult to have a discussion with someone who absolutely believes they are correct and everyone else is wrong.
Gary, you're misinterpreting my post.
I'm not arguing for/against 5w20. I asked a similar question a while back and was fine to move to 5w20 afterwards.
I was talking about the posts that seem to ridicule those that "appear" to not use the search function or ask questions that have already been asked.
I feel that there's a fine-line between screaming SEARCH! at every turn and keeping good conversations going.
So what if it takes more convincing by evidence to help some people? Isn't that one of the reasons why you're here?
I agree that every post has it's breaking point as far as usefulness goes, but then why not just bow-out instead of getting ****y?
I was going to use 5w20 until my mechanic told me last-minute there wasn't any there to use.
I listened to you guys and the evidence. it doesn't mean that people shouldn't come here and question you guys though...
Scott
I'm not arguing for/against 5w20. I asked a similar question a while back and was fine to move to 5w20 afterwards.
I was talking about the posts that seem to ridicule those that "appear" to not use the search function or ask questions that have already been asked.
I feel that there's a fine-line between screaming SEARCH! at every turn and keeping good conversations going.
So what if it takes more convincing by evidence to help some people? Isn't that one of the reasons why you're here?
I agree that every post has it's breaking point as far as usefulness goes, but then why not just bow-out instead of getting ****y?
I was going to use 5w20 until my mechanic told me last-minute there wasn't any there to use.
I listened to you guys and the evidence. it doesn't mean that people shouldn't come here and question you guys though...
Scott
On shearing
5w20 concerns
Someone else thinks that Ford is wrong...imagine that?
OMG! Toyota recomended 5w20.. it's a conspiracy!
More
power loss vs viscosity
5w20 questioned again
One of many good v-8 used oil analysis on 5w20.
This is not even 10% of what I found under the search term "5w20 to thin"
When I was trying to prove that thicker was better I dug up all the information I could.. The more I dug the more I had to accept the fact that I was having to skim tens of post or articles to support my one thick point. Asking to search is not cutting off any discussion, but it is far easier to have a discussion with someone who attempts to be informed on the subject. I am not even claiming to be proficient, but I do believe in backing up my points.
5w20 concerns
Someone else thinks that Ford is wrong...imagine that?
OMG! Toyota recomended 5w20.. it's a conspiracy!
More
power loss vs viscosity
5w20 questioned again
One of many good v-8 used oil analysis on 5w20.
This is not even 10% of what I found under the search term "5w20 to thin"
When I was trying to prove that thicker was better I dug up all the information I could.. The more I dug the more I had to accept the fact that I was having to skim tens of post or articles to support my one thick point. Asking to search is not cutting off any discussion, but it is far easier to have a discussion with someone who attempts to be informed on the subject. I am not even claiming to be proficient, but I do believe in backing up my points.
farrarfan1: Understood. See above.
Scott
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