Its simple! Its a performance car, yea 5W20 will work but why sacrifice protection when you KNOW ford suggests thicker oil in many cases or anything but grocery shopping trips? Open your eyes thin oil crowd!!! Thin oils have a place, but NOT in a high output sports car, a heavy duty truck or anything that is abused!!! 20Wt oils are fine for your grandmas camry or your prius but not in your [censored] 420HP mustang, your twin turbo 5500lb ecoboost truck our your BMW M3!! Look at any OM for a high end car like a BMW M3, a Porsche 911, an Audi R8.. bet you won't see any "water" oils suggested for them!
5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously?
- Thread starter kballowe
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Personally I see no reason to give Ford any excuse to deny a warranty claim for the 7 year / 100K CPO warranty period, without links to definitive evidence of historical damage to these engines caused by running factory specified oil. The 435 HP Coyote isn't a brand new engine, much like the 390 HP 5.7L Hemi in my 2012 Ram.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Its simple! Its a performance car, yea 5W20 will work but why sacrifice protection when you KNOW ford suggests thicker oil in many cases or anything but grocery shopping trips?
Thicker oil can be better for track use mainly because oil temps are often higher.
On the street, where oil temps usually don't get that high, thicker doesn't help.
Its simple! Its a performance car, yea 5W20 will work but why sacrifice protection when you KNOW ford suggests thicker oil in many cases or anything but grocery shopping trips?
Thicker oil can be better for track use mainly because oil temps are often higher.
On the street, where oil temps usually don't get that high, thicker doesn't help.
I'd run a "thin" 5W30 and call it a day.
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
It's redundant because the camshafts are only in the heads, there is no other camshaft location to require a differentiator between upper and lower. If it had other camshafts in the block or something then the term makes sense, but it doesn't, so it doesn't, follow?
I've built and worked on plenty of pushrod engines, 1920's, 30's and 40's stuff, my grandfather was an antique boat nut, so there was always something to keep you busy. I've also built a number of SBF's, pretty much all 302's, and had my hand in a few SBC builds as well. I'm quite familiar with cam-in-block engines of the OHV and flathead varieties.
I AM probably younger than you, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to use the proper terminology
A pushrod, be it OHV or flathead engine will have one camshaft, whilst a DOHC or vee'd SOHC mill will have camshafts (plural) and they will be in the heads. Ergo, when in a discussion about a specific engine that we all know is overhead cam, there's no need to make reference to an "upper" camshaft or camshafts, as all of the cams are on the heads, there are no others, so it is just the camshaft or camshafts, period.
Oh, and comically, the 6.4L in my signature is a "conventional V engine". It is cam-in-block and has pushrods.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
It's redundant because the camshafts are only in the heads, there is no other camshaft location to require a differentiator between upper and lower. If it had other camshafts in the block or something then the term makes sense, but it doesn't, so it doesn't, follow?
I've built and worked on plenty of pushrod engines, 1920's, 30's and 40's stuff, my grandfather was an antique boat nut, so there was always something to keep you busy. I've also built a number of SBF's, pretty much all 302's, and had my hand in a few SBC builds as well. I'm quite familiar with cam-in-block engines of the OHV and flathead varieties.
I AM probably younger than you, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to use the proper terminology
Oh, and comically, the 6.4L in my signature is a "conventional V engine". It is cam-in-block and has pushrods.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
It's redundant because the camshafts are only in the heads, there is no other camshaft location to require a differentiator between upper and lower. If it had other camshafts in the block or something then the term makes sense, but it doesn't, so it doesn't, follow?
I've built and worked on plenty of pushrod engines, 1920's, 30's and 40's stuff, my grandfather was an antique boat nut, so there was always something to keep you busy. I've also built a number of SBF's, pretty much all 302's, and had my hand in a few SBC builds as well. I'm quite familiar with cam-in-block engines of the OHV and flathead varieties.
I AM probably younger than you, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to use the proper terminology
A pushrod, be it OHV or flathead engine will have one camshaft, whilst a DOHC or vee'd SOHC mill will have camshafts (plural) and they will be in the heads. Ergo, when in a discussion about a specific engine that we all know is overhead cam, there's no need to make reference to an "upper" camshaft or camshafts, as all of the cams are on the heads, there are no others, so it is just the camshaft or camshafts, period.
Oh, and comically, the 6.4L in my signature is a "conventional V engine". It is cam-in-block and has pushrods.
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Was I correct when I stated they spec 5W20 for the upper camshafts-AKA-getting the thinner 20 wt. oil up there quicker at operating temps. VS the 30 wt.? Are there cam phasers/VCT in this engine that require to use a 5W20 oil ONLY?
No.
The same engine specs 5w-50 in the Track Pack version. 5w-20 isn't getting there any faster and what are "upper" camshafts? The engine has camshafts, they are all on the tops of the heads, there are no "upper" ones.
Well, the engines I used to build, rebuild, buy, never had a camshaft on the upper part of the engine, AKA-UPPER CAMSHAFT. If the camshaft had been in a typical conventional V engine, I just call it "THE CAMSHAFT." So, it seems this engine has UPPER CAMSHAFTS-AKA-AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE. Maybe you're younger than me and have never worked/rebuilt an older conventional V engine. I don't know. But, does it bother you that I stated UPPER CAMSHAFTS?
It's redundant because the camshafts are only in the heads, there is no other camshaft location to require a differentiator between upper and lower. If it had other camshafts in the block or something then the term makes sense, but it doesn't, so it doesn't, follow?
I've built and worked on plenty of pushrod engines, 1920's, 30's and 40's stuff, my grandfather was an antique boat nut, so there was always something to keep you busy. I've also built a number of SBF's, pretty much all 302's, and had my hand in a few SBC builds as well. I'm quite familiar with cam-in-block engines of the OHV and flathead varieties.
I AM probably younger than you, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to use the proper terminology
Oh, and comically, the 6.4L in my signature is a "conventional V engine". It is cam-in-block and has pushrods.
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
The camshafts in this engine have VCT solenoids/phasers that control camshaft timing; advance and retard, similar to the older BMW VANOS system. These systems are not overly sensitive to viscosity if that's what you are driving at. BMW spec'd 10w-60 for most of the M cars, Ford has spec'd 5w-50 for many of the Modulars with VCT.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
I'm not sure what you are implying? Nobody said the SBC was OHC???
And a vee'd engine can be OHC, OHV or flathead. There is no "conventional" location. Ford was making OHC engines around the same time they were making OHV engines, both were vee'd layouts.
This is a 1960's vintage DOHC Ford Windsor (destroked):
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
The camshafts in this engine have VCT solenoids/phasers that control camshaft timing; advance and retard, similar to the older BMW VANOS system. These systems are not overly sensitive to viscosity if that's what you are driving at. BMW spec'd 10w-60 for most of the M cars, Ford has spec'd 5w-50 for many of the Modulars with VCT.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
I'm not sure what you are implying? Nobody said the SBC was OHC???
And a vee'd engine can be OHC, OHV or flathead. There is no "conventional" location. Ford was making OHC engines around the same time they were making OHV engines, both were vee'd layouts.
This is a 1960's vintage DOHC Ford Windsor (destroked):
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
The camshafts in this engine have VCT solenoids that control camshaft timing; advance and retard, similar to the older BMW VANOS system. These systems are not overly sensitive to viscosity if that's what you are driving at. BMW spec'd 10w-60 for most of the M cars, Ford has spec'd 5w-50 for many of the Modulars with VCT.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
I'm not sure what you are implying? Nobody said the SBC was OHC???
And a vee'd engine can be OHC, OHV or flathead. There is no "conventional" location. Ford was making OHC engines around the same time they were making OHV engines, both were vee'd layouts.
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break! You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Anyway, the UPPER CAMSHAFTS do have UPPER CAM SYNCHRONIZERS, correct?
The camshafts in this engine have VCT solenoids that control camshaft timing; advance and retard, similar to the older BMW VANOS system. These systems are not overly sensitive to viscosity if that's what you are driving at. BMW spec'd 10w-60 for most of the M cars, Ford has spec'd 5w-50 for many of the Modulars with VCT.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
BTW, a conventional V engine (like a small block Chevy) DOESN'T have a camshaft ON its head.
I'm not sure what you are implying? Nobody said the SBC was OHC???
And a vee'd engine can be OHC, OHV or flathead. There is no "conventional" location. Ford was making OHC engines around the same time they were making OHV engines, both were vee'd layouts.
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break! You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break!
I'll turn that around: Why do you insist on using terminology that you know isn't commonplace, are entirely aware of what IS, and then take exception when called on it? You are the guy poking the dog and then getting all indignant, feigning offence and injury when it bites you
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
The rest of who? You have a posse that follows you around and takes pot-shots at you? I corrected your terminology. You seemed to find that amusing and then continued to intentionally use that terminology and are now claiming I'm picking on you? Seriously?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
Phaser rattle on the SOHC 3V Modular is unfortunately pretty common. I recall there being an unofficial service bulletin circulating here that Ford recommended 10w-40 for the really loud ones when customers were complaining. Read into that what you will.
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break!
I'll turn that around: Why do you insist on using terminology that you know isn't commonplace, are entirely aware of what IS, and then take exception when called on it? You are the guy poking the dog and then getting all indignant, feigning offence and injury when it bites you
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
The rest of who? You have a posse that follows you around and takes pot-shots at you? I corrected your terminology. You seemed to find that amusing and then continued to intentionally use that terminology and are now claiming I'm picking on you? Seriously?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
Phaser rattle on the SOHC 3V Modular is unfortunately pretty common. I recall there being an unofficial service bulletin circulating here that Ford recommended 10w-40 for the really loud ones when customers were complaining. Read into that what you will.
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Originally Posted By: hatt
From what I understand, Coyote VCT has little/nothing in common from previous modulars.
I would expect it to be significantly different from the SOHC setup found on the 3V for sure. My initial impression is that it is quite similar to the BMW VANOS system as I mentioned earlier.
From what I understand, Coyote VCT has little/nothing in common from previous modulars.
I would expect it to be significantly different from the SOHC setup found on the 3V for sure. My initial impression is that it is quite similar to the BMW VANOS system as I mentioned earlier.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break!
I'll turn that around: Why do you insist on using terminology that you know isn't commonplace, are entirely aware of what IS, and then take exception when called on it? You are the guy poking the dog and then getting all indignant, feigning offence and injury when it bites you
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
The rest of who? You have a posse that follows you around and takes pot-shots at you? I corrected your terminology. You seemed to find that amusing and then continued to intentionally use that terminology and are now claiming I'm picking on you? Seriously?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
Phaser rattle on the SOHC 3V Modular is unfortunately pretty common. I recall there being an unofficial service bulletin circulating here that Ford recommended 10w-40 for the really loud ones when customers were complaining. Read into that what you will.
Yeah, if you want to call yourselves a posse.
10W40 oil. I will have to tell him that. The engine only has 52K miles on it, but it sat up for almost 7-8 years.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Why must you keep correcting me? Does it bother you that much that my definition just varies slightly than what your UPPER IQ brain thinks? C'mon man, give me a break!
I'll turn that around: Why do you insist on using terminology that you know isn't commonplace, are entirely aware of what IS, and then take exception when called on it? You are the guy poking the dog and then getting all indignant, feigning offence and injury when it bites you
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
You're just like all of the rest of them, following me around to get your chance to belittle me.
The rest of who? You have a posse that follows you around and takes pot-shots at you? I corrected your terminology. You seemed to find that amusing and then continued to intentionally use that terminology and are now claiming I'm picking on you? Seriously?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My sons 04 5.4 3 valve engine has these similar, or the same UPPER CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZERS and are making noise. The shop foreman at the FORD dealership told him to turn the radio up as not to hear them.
Phaser rattle on the SOHC 3V Modular is unfortunately pretty common. I recall there being an unofficial service bulletin circulating here that Ford recommended 10w-40 for the really loud ones when customers were complaining. Read into that what you will.
Yeah, if you want to call yourselves a posse.
10W40 oil. I will have to tell him that. The engine only has 52K miles on it, but it sat up for almost 7-8 years.
Is it in any way similar to the older 60's 427 SOHC ENGINE?
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$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Is it in any way similar to the older 60's 427 SOHC ENGINE?
Is what? The 427 SOHC didn't have any sort of VCT, the camshafts had fixed timing.
I believe the first V8 from Ford to have any sort of VCT was the 3V Modular. I could be wrong on that however.
Is it in any way similar to the older 60's 427 SOHC ENGINE?
Is what? The 427 SOHC didn't have any sort of VCT, the camshafts had fixed timing.
I believe the first V8 from Ford to have any sort of VCT was the 3V Modular. I could be wrong on that however.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Is it in any way similar to the older 60's 427 SOHC ENGINE?
Is what? The 427 SOHC didn't have any sort of VCT, the camshafts had fixed timing.
I believe the first V8 from Ford to have any sort of VCT was the 3V Modular. I could be wrong on that however.
OKAY, I wasn't specific enough! Is the 427 OVERHEAD CAM DESIGN any way similar to the COYOTE engine design?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Is it in any way similar to the older 60's 427 SOHC ENGINE?
Is what? The 427 SOHC didn't have any sort of VCT, the camshafts had fixed timing.
I believe the first V8 from Ford to have any sort of VCT was the 3V Modular. I could be wrong on that however.
OKAY, I wasn't specific enough! Is the 427 OVERHEAD CAM DESIGN any way similar to the COYOTE engine design?
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