$50,080 for the average cost

My new van was $52,371 out the door.

Why did I buy new? Used cars, particularly minivans, are overpriced and under maintained. A used minivan with the specs I wanted had 75k miles, more than one owner, and cost $5000 less than a new one.

My 2020 Jeep Wrangler was a different story. That market made sense for used, as I found a 1 owner Jeep for $15,000 less than new. $28,000 for a 4 year old Jeep with 56k miles was a good deal. Still a stupid amount of money, but buying a Jeep is never a good financial decision…..I had an unused car to trade that helped cover the cost.
 
American CEOs are paid in stock but they're 1 of thousands of employees. Japanese manufacturers will keep a company limping along well beyond it's expiration date because of all the tie-ins.
You got to be careful about trusting the Japanese in corp governance. A lot of them have accounting fraud covered up and dead beat management suffocating the people doing the work. The ones who do well tend to be "family business" like Toyota who has been part of the business dynasty for decades if not 100 years, and they too aren't charity giving away good jobs or good deals.

The problem with US corporates typically are Wall Streets. I have no problem with them making money but private equities are the one who never want to commit long term and just borrow, buy, gut, sell, let it collapse. I stay away from those as customers and investors.
 
I have a hard time parting with my money for a vehicle.
I figured out my "use case" and found a vehicle that would fit that. I ended up buying a base model ICE Rav4. It fit my requirements of towing (16' aluminum fishing boat or a single motorcycle trailer), hauling camping equipment, and decent gas mileage.

I wanted a Bronco or 4Runner. I couldn't justify spending that kind of extra cash on the upscale vehicle. I used the difference on a new motorcycle. I am happy with both of my choices.
I wanted a new Bronco. In memory of the full size my two sons , the wife and I enjoyed owning in the mid 1990s. My full size BroncoXlt came with the highly popular / fuel friendly Ford 5.0 EFI engine. I used it to hunt and fish all over the USA from as far as Texas to Virginia as well as in between from Missouri , Arkansas to Oklahoma etc.... for many years. As a family we preferred to take it on cross country vacations too. The popular Bronco + Bronco IIs were phased out by Ford and ended its run in 1996.
There are a few main reasons I passed on purchasing a new 2023/2024/2025 model.

#1)- We found the new Bronco too small on the inside for what it pretends to be.
#2)- I discovered the fact that the base or cheaper model comes with an engine I just HATE the idea of. A (three) cylinder tiny turbo engine. This is totally unacceptable to me. Especially after the experiences I am dealing with on the wife's tiny 1.5 (four) cylinder turbo Honda that I have had to baby and keep my eyes on constantly while staying right on top of all the predictive/preventive maintenance with a much shorter than desired oci due to the fuel/oil/direct injection diluting engine.
#3)- The real kicker that turned me off to the new Bronco is the option packages and the INSANE prices. One can expect to pay as much as around the $32,000 to $35,000 prices on the lesser option package. So, when I decided I would look into the costs of owning a package that comes with a traditional sized (four) cylinder engine only available in the Bronco Special Edition, the Sports or the Wilderness models that ONLY cost ..... starting around $55,000. NO THANKS at all Ford.
 
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Nobody sees where you live. Everyone sees what you drive.
I think most of the time, they do something obvious that shows the luxury car driver rents their housing... Tint is too dark, stickers, cheap tires, bad looking rims, lowered, loud exhaust, door dings...
But whatever, everyone spends their money how they like... And some people can drive an expensive vehicle pretty cheaply, doing low miles and no wear and tear for great trade in value, or as a business expense.
 
I wanted a new Bronco. In memory of the full size my two sons , the wife and I enjoyed owning in the mid 1990s. My full size BroncoXlt came with the highly popular / fuel friendly Ford 5.0 EFI engine. I used it to hunt and fish all over the USA from as far as Texas to Virginia as well as in between from Missouri , Arkansas to Oklahoma etc.... for many years. As a family we preferred to take it on cross country vacations too. The popular Bronco + Bronco IIs were phased out by Ford and ended its run in 1996.
There are a few main reasons I passed on purchasing a new 2023/2024/2025 model.

#1)- We found the new Bronco too small on the inside for what it pretends to be.
#2)- I discovered the fact that the base or cheaper model comes with an engine I just HATE the idea of. A (three) cylinder tiny turbo engine. This is totally unacceptable to me. Especially after the experiences I am dealing with on the wife's tiny 1.5 (four) cylinder turbo Honda that I have had to baby and keep my eyes on constantly while staying right on top of all the predictive/preventive maintenance with a much shorter than desired oci due to the fuel/oil/direct injection diluting engine.
#3)- The real kicker that turned me off to the new Bronco is the option packages and the INSANE prices. One can expect to pay as much as around the $32,000 to $35,000 prices on the lesser option package. So, when I decided I would look into the costs of owning a package that comes with a traditional sized (four) cylinder engine only available in the Bronco Special Edition, the Sports or the Wilderness models that ONLY cost ..... starting around $55,000. NO THANKS at all Ford.
Your post really hits home. It appears harder and harder to justify buying a new vehicle, not because of the prices-- but because of what appears to be less reliable powertrain and associated design issues. Many of us come from an expectation that if we buy a vehicle, perform proper maintenance and treat the vehicle nicely, the vehicle will be dependable and last a long time.

Observations point (especially with Ford) that one can't expect a brand new vehicle to last a long time by proactive maintenance and taking good care of the vehicle. Appears manufactures have traded reliability for maximum fuel efficiency, maximum emissions, and maximum cost savings. I am starting to wonder of a proven used vehicle is a smarter buy than a brand new vehicle, not on the basis of price, but the basis of long term reliability.
 
The Cool Cars are above 50K, the not so Cool Cars are below 50K, that is JMO.
I just want a car that can get me from Point A to Point B. LOL
If we all buy a car and use quality oils from the get-go like:

Valvoline Restore and Protect
Amsoil Signature Series
Mobil 1 ESP
HPL
You left out Redline, Mobil 1 0w40, Castrol 0w40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX, and man the list goes on. But those are great choices but only 2/4 are easily accessible off the shelf.
The 4 oil's that I have listed will keep your vehicle running for a long time and you will not have to worry about getting a new car unless someone hits you.
You’re focusing a tad too much on the oil. Transmission fluid is key as well, along with diff and transaxle fluids. But yes, those oils will do the trick.
 
You left out Redline, Mobil 1 0w40, Castrol 0w40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX, and man the list goes on. But those are great choices but only 2/4 are easily accessible off the shelf.

You’re focusing a tad too much on the oil. Transmission fluid is key as well, along with diff and transaxle fluids. But yes, those oils will do the trick.
Do those oils overcome manufacturing defects, design oversights, shortages of warranty repair parts, and shortages of technicians to perform warranty repairs in a timely manner?

Of note, I do believe changing the oil every 2,000 miles on my 2007 f350 with the 5.4l 3v engine is why the truck went 200k miles with zero timing hardware issues. Not sure doing the same on a new Ford ecoboast engine will make the ecoboast any less prone to timing hardware issues.
 
My new van was $52,371 out the door.

Why did I buy new? Used cars, particularly minivans, are overpriced and under maintained. A used minivan with the specs I wanted had 75k miles, more than one owner, and cost $5000 less than a new one.

My 2020 Jeep Wrangler was a different story. That market made sense for used, as I found a 1 owner Jeep for $15,000 less than new. $28,000 for a 4 year old Jeep with 56k miles was a good deal. Still a stupid amount of money, but buying a Jeep is never a good financial decision…..I had an unused car to trade that helped cover the cost.
Let me tell you a recent experience I had in the minivan market.

While I was at a family reunion, I decided to scroll around on my phone and find some interesting inventory at the auctions for the next week.

I find a 2018 Toyota Sienna XLE with only 19,300 miles on it. Great condition. Carmax had retailed the unit and botched the title by recording the wrong mileage (100,000 miles). The current owners balked at the mistake, returned the vehicle, and so I decided to feature it at 48 Hours And A Used Car on Facebook.

I get a few interested customers within an hour. One agrees to bid up to $25k on the unit. So I send him a pre-purchase agreement and we get ready for the sale the next morning.

Before the auction he balks a bit and lowers his maximum bid price to $23,500. Sure enough, one dealer outbids us and the rest is history.

It reminded me of two realities in the consumer market. The first reality is that most folks really don't know the value of a vehicle.

All too often they will try to reference a vehicle bought way back when as the yardstick, and then complain about the market instead of studying what the market is right now. This poor guy spent a lot of time on the phone with me just turning back the clock, and it worked against him when it came to buying in the real world.

The other reality is even more tragic.

Too many people don't invest. They want 'the deal' instead of the car that will endure and be worth keeping.

THIS is a mindset that absolutely drives me nuts.

I tell many of my customers who are stuck in the proverbial mud of, "Can you find me a deal Steve..." that I'm not interested in finding deals. I'm only interested in finding a high quality car that has been well-maintained and offers long-term reliability.

Most cheap cars in the retail marketplace are $hit cars and the exact same side of the coin is true at the wholesale auctions.

I do get lucky sometimes. That same day I had a customer who was willing to pay $22,000 for a 2016 Lexus RC350 F-Sport. He got it for $19,100 on the block. But even if he had spent that entire $22k, he would have been very happy. Why?

Because the powertrain on that car will last another decade if not more with proper care. He already knew the history of that vehicle. He saw the difference in price between the wholesale market and retail which wasn't enormous. But still substantial.

Instead of buying something cheaper, he was willing to invest and buy something better.

Investing in assets versus getting the deal. Which one costs less in the end? Which one will make you happy in the long run?

The answer is obvious. I just wish more people out there valued facts and data over marketing and hype.
 
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Also there are way way too many who have always purchased a new vehicle with the plan to never pay it off at all. Many simply run up the miles, do little if any maintenance and quickly turn them right back in and sign the papers for another brand new vehicle under warranty. Living with an expensive vehicle note all of the time is not my past/current or future goal. My goal/fun has always been to drive and enjoy them as long as we possibly can + pay off the loan while attempting to keep them looking show room new as long as I can.
 
Do those oils overcome manufacturing defects,
No oil can cover those up.
design oversights, shortages of warranty repair parts, and shortages of technicians to perform warranty repairs in a timely manner?
Of course not! Good points to add as well.
Of note, I do believe changing the oil every 2,000 miles on my 2007 f350 with the 5.4l 3v engine is why the truck went 200k miles
People run 10k intervals with cars going past 200k miles. You did help regardless.
with zero timing hardware issues. Not sure doing the same on a new Ford ecoboast engine will make the ecoboast any less prone to timing hardware issues.
Eco boost is another way of saying "suckers".
 
I wonder how much of that $50,000+ price reflects dealers jacking up the prices of popular models with additional markups and silly "dealer-installed options". We saw a lot of this during the pandemic. Remember the $90,000 Bronco?
 
I wonder how much of that $50,000+ price reflects dealers jacking up the prices of popular models with additional markups and silly "dealer-installed options". We saw a lot of this during the pandemic. Remember the $90,000 Bronco?
Does it really matter though? People are obviously signing up on the dotted line for these crazy prices. So while it may feel good to blame the "greedy" dealerships or corporations, the reality is that most people obviously don't care. This is pretty much a true manifestation of capitalism.

If you had a $10 widget, but could sell it for a $100 and people would be putting themselves on a waiting just to get it, wouldn't you sell it for a $100+? I sure as heck would.
 
Does it really matter though? People are obviously signing up on the dotted line for these crazy prices. So while it may feel good to blame the "greedy" dealerships or corporations, the reality is that most people obviously don't care. This is pretty much a true manifestation of capitalism.

If you had a $10 widget, but could sell it for a $100 and people would be putting themselves on a waiting just to get it, wouldn't you sell it for a $100+? I sure as heck would.
Short term thinking. Sheesh.
 
I would guess the more relevant Mode would be closer to the mid 30's. Just a guess.

Decent out the door deals I saw this year:

- 2025 Subaru Impreza AWD 5 door sportback (made in Japan) $23,500
- 2025 Ford Maverick AWD Turbo with tow package $28,700
- 2025 Jeep Compass AWD Limited 2.0L turbo w/Hyundia 8 speed automatic - $27,400

Most enjoyable car I had driven was a Hyundai Venue 2wd which can be had for around $21k out the door,
Superb steering and dynamics and spunk no doubt helped by the very light curb weight or 2600 lbs!

If I didn't have to get up a "ski slope" to my log cabin in the winter I would be in that Hyundai. - Arco
 
People out there, majority, don’t understand the power their wallet holds.

Imagine if you put your subjective/emotional attachments aside and made purchases based off logic and objectivity. To add, many people aren’t too financial literate and this causes a an array of issues not only for them but everyone else.

If you have the money to buy new, don’t. Lease. You dodge the potential bullet of depreciation and are able to allocate those additional funds to a savings/ETF/MF route where the interest could off set your lease interest and even payments.

It baffles me when I see someone in a 100k car like a Land Cruiser, F150 (options and trim) and so forth and they don’t even use the car for the intended purpose. A great example is the G wagon. Would love to lease one, but with the rates, I rather throw my money into the aforementioned funds.
 
Aside:
Oh, I don't recommend the Jeep Compass above. Mainly due to the engine sounding like a cement mixer full of rocks and tin cans. And it's a 5W30 sump. Then there are those uncomfortable seats in the maverick - and its mostly useless shorty bed.
 
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