5.7 hemi oil filters

[hemioiler]

The 5.7 is all over the place when it comes to recommended "fit" oil filters.

Using both Fram Ultra and the Royal Purple web pages, the exact same 5.7 can have different oil filter numbers depending on year and model.

Ram 1500, Fram says "xg2" for years between 2009 to 2013. For years between 2013 to current, it says "xg10060" so 2013's can use either one.

Challenger, Fram says "xg2" between 2012 and 2019; but 2016+ it only says "xg2" for those models with the scat pack. Between 2016 and 2019, "xg10060".

Jeep GC the switchover date from XG2 to XG10060 is 2014 + 2015.

Ram 2500 it switches at 2013

Royal Purple has a similar thing going on, used to be the bigger 20-820 but switching over (same years as Fram) to the smaller 10-48.

So my questions: why would FCA change to the smaller filter specs, and secondly if I can physically fit a bigger filter that used to be OK back in 2010/2012, on my current 2022 5.7, is it safe to do so? The fram filters have smaller inlet holes on the XG2, any possible problems restricting oil flow with the bigger filters with smaller holes?

 

[Greasymechtech]

If the bigger filter fits, then its for you to decide what you want to use. I have no problem running larger filters.

Smaller filters were a cost saving move, along with ease of module assembly since the filter didn't stick out or get hung up on anything.

Things to consider concerning your filter upsizing.... the area of those inlet holes and the burst pressure.

FRAM ULTRA SYNTHETIC™ OIL FILTER

FRAM Ultra Synthetic® oil filters are engineered for drivers who are looking for ultimate performance and engine protection. Its dual-layered synthetic blend media provides 99%+ filtering efficiency and protects up to 20,000 miles. The silicone anti-drain

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FRAM ULTRA SYNTHETIC™ OIL FILTER

FRAM Ultra Synthetic® oil filters are engineered for drivers who are looking for ultimate performance and engine protection. Its dual-layered synthetic blend media provides 99%+ filtering efficiency and protects up to 20,000 miles. The silicone anti-drain

www.fram.com

Part Details

Part Details

A oil pressure gauge downstream of the filters can help you determine if the filters are equal enough.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Things to consider concerning your filter upsizing.... the area of those inlet holes and the burst pressure.

Base plate inlet hole area is always at least equal to or the more than the area of the filter mount oil flow hole - so no worries.

A oil pressure gauge downstream of the filters can help you determine if the filters are equal enough.

The oil pressure downstream of an oil filter is not effected by the filter unless the PD oil pump is in pressure relief - ie, like at very high RPM with thick cold oil. The oil pressure is proportional to the oil viscosity and flow volume. If the oil pressure sensor was before the oil filter (not a typical setup), then the flow resistance of the filter would effect the oil pressure reading.

 

[hemioiler]

Appreciate the replies guys.

@ZeeOSix So what are the chances that the hemi actually had any changes in the mounting plate for the filter? And just so I understand you, you're saying that the (volume of the) oil filter holes don't matter because both filters will have holes that are larger than the holes in the mounting plate on the engine?

I'm still baffled then why the hemi would go through that change.

Especially considering they explicity give two different filters on the challenger, one with the scat pack and one without. What could be the reason they want different filters in those applications?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Base plate inlet area is an unknown unless measured. But, we are comparing two baseplates from the same manufacturer in the original thread. Obviously, one has more area than the other.

Just because one base plate has more flow area doesn't mean the one with less area isn't going to work fine. Lots of members here have done the area measurements to show that base plate hole area is at least equal or greater than the oil filter mount flow area going to the main oil gallery. With a PD oil pump, if the base plate hole flow area was a bit less, all it's going to do it cause a hair more delta-p across the filter assembly, and any healthy PD won't care and still be far away from pressure relief under normal operating conditions.

Pump slip and its bypass relief are manufacturing unknowns. They wear out. They can be manufactured pathetically. Like pump blowby slip, relief valves leak too. I never ASSume that my engine works in a perfect world. Engineering and their R&D are hit or miss and has been for ages.

I an oil pump so worn out or designed like junk that it slipped so badly from a 1-2 PSI difference in filter flow resistance (filter delta-p), then that engine should be in the junk yard.

I've owned plenty of vehicles with oil pressure sensors before the filter. So, I never guess what is typical.

What vehicles have the oil pressure sensor before the oil filter? Never seen one yet designed that way. I used 5 different oil filters on my Z06 and saw absolutely no difference in oil pressure with any of those filters because the pressure sensor was after the oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Appreciate the replies guys.

@ZeeOSix So what are the chances that the hemi actually had any changes in the mounting plate for the filter? And just so I understand you, you're saying that the (volume of the) oil filter holes don't matter because both filters will have holes that are larger than the holes in the mounting plate on the engine?

The answer is yes to the bolded text in your quote. See my post above this one too. People get all hung up on the base plate and also center tube flow area, but any good filter designer should have looked at all of that already. People seems to go by "visuals" instead of by engineering and science.

I'm still baffled then why the hemi would go through that change.

Especially considering they explicity give two different filters on the challenger, one with the scat pack and one without. What could be the reason they want different filters in those applications?

I'm not into Hemis, so I really don't know whey there are two different filters specified. Maybe one has a higher volume oil pump, and therefore specifies a larger filter to help decrease the filter delta-p at high RPM and high pump flow.

 

[Skippy722]

Appreciate the replies guys.

@ZeeOSix So what are the chances that the hemi actually had any changes in the mounting plate for the filter? And just so I understand you, you're saying that the (volume of the) oil filter holes don't matter because both filters will have holes that are larger than the holes in the mounting plate on the engine?

I'm still baffled then why the hemi would go through that change.

Especially considering they explicity give two different filters on the challenger, one with the scat pack and one without. What could be the reason they want different filters in those applications?

I could not get the larger XG2 filter to fit to save my life on my 2019 1500 Classic. Between what I assume are transmission cooler lines and the electric power steering rack there just isn’t room. Maybe it fits if you have 2WD?


All scat pack’s are 6.4 hemi’s.

From my understanding, they went to the smaller filter at about the same time they went to electric power steering and added the 8 speed transmissions on the Ram 1500, they just switched everything else as well for simplicity.

 

[hemioiler]

I could not get the larger XG2 filter to fit to save my life on my 2019 1500 Classic. Between what I assume are transmission cooler lines and the electric power steering rack there just isn’t room. Maybe it fits if you have 2WD?


All scat pack’s are 6.4 hemi’s.

From my understanding, they went to the smaller filter at about the same time they went to electric power steering and added the 8 speed transmissions on the Ram 1500, they just switched everything else as well for simplicity.

That's interesting, there must be a little glitch on the Fram site then as they shouldn't be talking about scat pack on the challenger with the 5.7 hemi engine selected. Royal Purple doesn't have that scat pack footnote in their filter page.

Great point on the transmission and power steering, so it appears it's more a result of physical space then any changes in the filter mounting plate or flow rate etc that is driving the change to a smaller filter. That's good to know, I'll feel more comfortable using larger filters.

 

[Skippy722]

That's interesting, there must be a little glitch on the Fram site then as they shouldn't be talking about scat pack on the challenger with the 5.7 hemi engine selected. Royal Purple doesn't have that scat pack footnote in their filter page.

Great point on the transmission and power steering, so it appears it's more a result of physical space then any changes in the filter mounting plate or flow rate etc that is driving the change to a smaller filter. That's good to know, I'll feel more comfortable using larger filters.

When I try it on Frams site it says “w/o scat package” so that’s weird lol. If I select the 6.4 or 6.2 the XG2 comes up.

 

[flash7210]

the ph10575 is the same thread and diameter as the 10060 but is almost 2 inches taller.
It will fit where a ph2 is too wide.
the 10590 will also fit

 

[JTK]

I could not get the larger XG2 filter to fit to save my life on my 2019 1500 Classic. Between what I assume are transmission cooler lines and the electric power steering rack there just isn’t room. Maybe it fits if you have 2WD?

Same deal with my 2019 Ram 1500 classic. No room. I ran ~$2 champ filters on mine along with Supertech synthetic 5w30 w/ a 5000mi OCI.

 

[hemioiler]

When I try it on Frams site it says “w/o scat package” so that’s weird lol. If I select the 6.4 or 6.2 the XG2 comes up.

If you pick year 2016 instead you'll see the two filters listed with one designated for the scat pack.

https://www.fram.com/en/elasticsear...16&Make=Dodge&Model=Challenger&Engine=5.7L V8

 

[Skippy722]

If you pick year 2016 instead you'll see the two filters listed with one designated for the scat pack.

https://www.fram.com/en/elasticsearch/index/display?Application=Car & Truck&Type=Any Type&Year=2016&Make=Dodge&Model=Challenger&Engine=5.7L V8

I see it now. Yeah that’s weird… Might have something to do with all Scat Packs technically being R/T’s?

 

[ZeeOSix]

If you pick year 2016 instead you'll see the two filters listed with one designated for the scat pack.

https://www.fram.com/en/elasticsearch/index/display?Application=Car & Truck&Type=Any Type&Year=2016&Make=Dodge&Model=Challenger&Engine=5.7L V8

You should contact Fram and ask them why there are two different filters specified for the 5.7L V8 with and without the Scat package.

 

[OVERKILL]

To answer the question:
- Mounting plate remains unchanged regardless of which filter is spec'd
- The smaller filter appeared around the same time as electric power steering, which made it VERY tight (or not possible) to use the larger filter previously spec'd
- If your application can fit the larger filter, there is no downside to running it (which is why I run it)

 

[Bighorn2500]

My brothers 2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Hemi takes the smaller filter and yes it has the electric power steering. It’s a tight fit and a pain to get around without making a mess. Residual drain out runs right onto the P/S rack. I’ve used TG10060, older Wix 57060, and a few Baldwin B7443 without any issues. I liked having the filter mounted on the front on my 2009 Hemi, where you could run the larger filter.