5,000 miles on Red Line 5W-20 in Maybach 57, 6,700 total mile on the car

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AEHaas

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2005 Maybach 57 delivered March 25th, 2005 with 175 miles on the odometer. I took a sample after driving 15 miles home from work with 400 miles on the clock. The car comes with a twin turbo 5.5 Liter V12. It has 550 BHP and 660 Ft Lbs torque but I put in a Renntech chipset that they tell me gives another 120 torque. The stock 6,100 pound car (one I borrowed with 4,500 miles on the clock ) did a 0 - 60 hop in 4.95 seconds. I did a quick 0-60 with 200 miles on this car at 4.80 seconds. I will break it in some more and try again later. Right now no problem burning rubber with limited slip differential. Driving: spirited around town, some highway driving.

Now the car has 6,700 miles. I tried to better the 0-60 but only got wheel slip, wider tires are needed to get going faster. I did get .3 seconds off the 1/4 mile.

Again, the OEM is supposed to be Shell Helix Ultra. I do not have a VOA and I do not think it would have so much Moly in there. Terry said it is mostly from assembly of the engine parts.

____New OEM ______Red Line 5W-20____Red Line ____Red Line Virgin Oil
__Unknown 400 Mi__With 2,500 Mi __With 5,000 Mi____New in Bottle
................................................................................................................
Iron__________18_________13_______23________1
Chromium _____1_________0_________1________0
Nickel ________0_________0_________0_________0
Aluminum _____31________13________16________10
lead __________2_________3_________12________0
Copper _______19________16_________16________0
Tin ___________5_________2_________4_________1
Silver ________0__________0________0_________1
Titanium ______0__________0________0_________0
Silicon _______21_________12_______11_________7
Boron ________87_________9_________6_________2
Sodium ______13_________12________13________18
Potassium _____5__________1_______1_________0
Molybdenum __ 446________557______572_______617
Phosphorus ___1120_______1225_____1201_____1431
Zinc _________1303_______1304_____1307_____1466
Calcium _____ 1727_______2475_____2551_____2986
Barium _______87_________9_________0_________1
Magnesium ____1124______170_______191________11
Antimony ______5_________2_________0_________2
Vanadium ______0_________0_________0_________0
Fuel %Vol _____neg______neg________neg_______neg
Abs Oxid ______x_________x__________79_________x
Abs Nitr _______x_________x_________90_________x
Wtr %vol ______0_________0__________0_________0
Vis CS 100C __11.4_______9.2________9.7_______9.2
SAE Grade ____30________20_________30________20
Gly test ______neg_______neg_______POS______POS
TBN _________not done____x_________x_________x
Particles Counts:
>5__________44864____81592_____________18349
>10_________3703______4273______________3508
>15_________318_______608_______________1255
>20_________109_______350_______________523
>25_________42________252_______________239
>50_________5_________118________________27
>75_________1__________90_________________6
>100________0__________64_________________1___ I repeatedly asked Butler for the new counts on the 5,000 mile sample (I paid for) but so far they have not responded.

aehaas

PS- There were light brown colored spots seen on the camshaft and inside the valve compartment. These were there since new and have essentially disappeared now.

[ March 04, 2006, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: AEHaas ]
 
I hope Terry will comment on the UOA here on the board. I'm very curious as to what he thinks about these latest numbers.
 
I don't see anything alarming. It's hard to tell if the Pb reading is simply RL reacting as usual with the bearing overlay or it being too light of a viscosity. I think a few more runs with this oil will show what is going on here. Based on charts I've seen, wear metals are very low. Pretty amazing for a car with that much power and using a 5w-20 oil. Thats my opinion fwiw.
 
Dr.,

You have a highly stressed 5.5L V12 making 550HP and you are using 5W-20 oil?
freak2.gif
I don't know boss...seems to me you might be pushing your luck! The Shell Helix is a 5W-40, correct?
 
I agree with Buster, run this oil a few more times and see how the wear metals trend. If the levels do not go down much more, I would try out Redline 5w30 and see if the wear metals come down. Since the chemistry between Redline 5w20 and 5w30 should be pretty much the same, then you'll know which viscosity works better.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H:
I find the introduction of glycol in the latest UOA more than a bit unsettling, too.
Click to expand...
I think that reading is meaningless. If you'll notice, the virgin Redline tested positive for glycol. This is probably just another example of Redline's chemistry fooling the typical oil analysis lab. I would only trust Terry to properly interpret a Redline UOA.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:
Dr.,

You have a highly stressed 5.5L V12 making 550HP and you are using 5W-20 oil?
freak2.gif
I don't know boss...seems to me you might be pushing your luck! The Shell Helix is a 5W-40, correct?
Click to expand...
I seriously dobut that this engine is ever "highly stressed" under the good doctor's driving conditions around Sarasota.

The Helix Ultra that is factory fill for this engine is 5w30.
 
My error, the glycol was negative.

The engine does get short workouts but certainly the fluids never get too hot.

For Last Z- I have been using 20 wt. oils for over 3 years in 500 plus BHP cars including Ferrari and Lamborghini. I have recently purchased an Enzo that calls for a 60 wt oil. Right now I have immediately gone to a 40 wt. oil and am considering a 30. The Enzo has 650 BHP and runs up to 8,500 RPM.

aehaas
 
quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas:
I have recently purchased an Enzo that calls for a 60 wt oil. Right now I have immediately gone to a 40 wt. oil and am considering a 30. The Enzo has 650 BHP and runs up to 8,500 RPM.
Click to expand...
What oil are you running in the Enzo? Would love to see some pics. I'll host them for you like last time. Just e-mail them to me.

BTW, it wasn't this Enzo that you bought, was it?
grin.gif


-
 
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas:
I have recently purchased an Enzo that calls for a 60 wt oil. Right now I have immediately gone to a 40 wt. oil and am considering a 30. The Enzo has 650 BHP and runs up to 8,500 RPM.
Click to expand...
What oil are you running in the Enzo? Would love to see some pics.
Click to expand...
Dr. Haas' post on his Enzo:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=002994

He's using Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 in his Enzo according to a message in that thread.
 
Yeah, that near water-thin 5W-20 gruel's gettin' the livin' snot pounded out of itself. I believe Last_Z is absolutely right. I find the introduction of glycol in the latest UOA more than a bit unsettling, too.

[ March 05, 2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
I finally got the particle counts back. Check them out. What do you think?

____New OEM ______Red Line 5W-20____Red Line ____Red Line Virgin Oil
__Unknown 400 Mi__With 2,500 Mi __With 5,000 Mi____New in Bottle
................................................................................................................
Iron__________18_________13_______23________1
Chromium _____1_________0_________1________0
Nickel ________0_________0_________0_________0
Aluminum _____31________13________16________10
lead __________2_________3_________12________0
Copper _______19________16_________16________0
Tin ___________5_________2_________4_________1
Silver ________0__________0________0_________1
Titanium ______0__________0________0_________0
Silicon _______21_________12_______11_________7
Boron ________87_________9_________6_________2
Sodium ______13_________12________13________18
Potassium _____5__________1_______1_________0
Molybdenum __ 446________557______572_______617
Phosphorus ___1120_______1225_____1201_____1431
Zinc _________1303_______1304_____1307_____1466
Calcium _____ 1727_______2475_____2551_____2986
Barium _______87_________9_________0_________1
Magnesium ____1124______170_______191________11
Antimony ______5_________2_________0_________2
Vanadium ______0_________0_________0_________0
Fuel %Vol _____neg______neg________neg_______neg
Abs Oxid ______x_________x__________79_________x
Abs Nitr _______x_________x_________90_________x
Wtr %vol ______0_________0__________0_________0
Vis CS 100C __11.4_______9.2________9.7_______9.2
SAE Grade ____30________20_________30________20
Gly test ______neg_______neg_______neg______POS
TBN _________not done____x_________x_________x
Particles Counts:
>5__________44864____81592____90038_____18349
>10_________3703______4273____22902______3508
>15_________318_______608______1050_____1255
>20_________109_______350_______136______523
>25_________42________252_______86______239
>50_________5_________118_______18_______27
>75_________1__________90________6_______6
>100________0__________64________2_______1

aehaas
 
quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas:
the OEM is supposed to be Shell Helix Ultra. I do not have a VOA and I do not think it would have so much Moly in there.
Click to expand...
May be, but the chemistry is also similar to Fuchs Titan SyperSyn SL 5W-30 I already saw at another UOA. Again, I would not be surprised if Maybach uses Elf SRX 5W-30 as a factory fill. Seems an additive package actually used in some european oils initially contains a lot of Moly.
 
I wonder if the smaller sized particles count is high because a lot of the engine needed cleaning. Note the larger particles have diminished considerably.

We are getting cleaning and filtering.

aehaas
 
Why are these particle counts so much higher than all of the other particle counts? Every other particle count posted has nothing at 50 and above and very few at 25?!?!
 
I think we're seeing a calculation difference ..although I find it odd that Butler would commit such an error. If you reduce the magnetude by 10X (a convenient multiplier for sampling ..as would 10X or 1000X) you get what we consider "normal" numbers.

In this PC comparison (throwing out mileage and sump size for the moment) we see typcial numbers of (starting with >5um) a fairly consistant particle/mile correlation that falls in around

>5um 300/5k
>10um 100/5k
>15um 30/5k
jump to 25um 10/5k
0
0


You also (although I'v argued agressively against this very statistical tendancy - shamefull look) see a basic 3:1 progression in particle count as you go smaller.

Some of the particles can surely be attributed to the newness of the engine but not to this amount.

I would send mulitple samples to multiple labs at the next interval to get a consensus of results before I took this (these) rendering(s) as valid.
 
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