What are your thoughts on 4wd vs AWD? I have been told by some people that AWD is better. My Montero has both options and I have always felt in it that the 4wd did better in deep snow and slick conditions. The AWD does fine but when pushing limits in sliding it was easier in AWD to slide.
4wd vs AWD
- Thread starter spk2000
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Depends on what you are using it for.
Some added features are: 1) all wheel lock (all wheels turn at same rate, good for getting unstuck in sand, mud, or snow)and 2) low range (allows you to "crawl" on off-road rough terrain).
Generally AWD is for on-road use and 4WD is better for off road.
Here is a good article:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1105_4wd_vs_awd/viewall.html
Some added features are: 1) all wheel lock (all wheels turn at same rate, good for getting unstuck in sand, mud, or snow)and 2) low range (allows you to "crawl" on off-road rough terrain).
Generally AWD is for on-road use and 4WD is better for off road.
Here is a good article:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1105_4wd_vs_awd/viewall.html
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I have had both and I prefer true 4WD. I do not like automated systems like most AWD systems are these days that do not allow you the ability to engage it manually when needed. I know some do but most don't. I had one vehicle with that type of system and it was ok in normal bad weather driving certainly but the lack of being able to manually engage it when I knew I needed it before hand was a problem. I won't do that again if I can help it.
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I have both systems.
I have the tried and true full manual 4x4 in my 1978 Jeep CJ7 that is robust and go anywhere. It is most dependable and off road worthy and has 4LO.
I have a full time AWD in my Sierra Denali pickup and love it because it's always active covering my butt. You can feel the safety and security of the AWD in rain, snow and loose gravel..you just pull thru. (Do remember you cannot beat the law of physics though and must still drive with your head!). It does have a little MPG penalty but I don't care as it really does the job well 24/7.
Then, my company car is a Suburban with the option of running 2WD, 4HI, 4LO or AUTO - which is like having the best of both worlds.
Only thing is, my Sierra Denali AWD is always splitting power 60/40 and can force up to 100% power to the front or rear as needed. So you have a better system engaged "before" needed. The suburban and even some other AWD systems will only activate the extra axle after slip has been noticed and I don't like that. It reacts in milliseconds but I still don't like the after the fact engagement.
My choice for daily driving is AWD unless you are gonna do off roading where a conventional 4WD system with a 4LO is preferred.
SO - there are 2 types of AWD. One's that are TRULY on all the time and those that are just 2WD until slip is detected and then run AWD just as needed..these SUCK.
My favorite 4WD system off all time was my 2000 Cherokee Limited (XJ, not Grand Cherokee but the small one with 4.0L) It had the optional transfer case with EVERYTHING!! You had 2HI, 4HI, 4LO and 4 wheel auto which slit like my AWD truck and could run in that position on dry pavement like AWD. MISS that truck!
I have the tried and true full manual 4x4 in my 1978 Jeep CJ7 that is robust and go anywhere. It is most dependable and off road worthy and has 4LO.
I have a full time AWD in my Sierra Denali pickup and love it because it's always active covering my butt. You can feel the safety and security of the AWD in rain, snow and loose gravel..you just pull thru. (Do remember you cannot beat the law of physics though and must still drive with your head!). It does have a little MPG penalty but I don't care as it really does the job well 24/7.
Then, my company car is a Suburban with the option of running 2WD, 4HI, 4LO or AUTO - which is like having the best of both worlds.
Only thing is, my Sierra Denali AWD is always splitting power 60/40 and can force up to 100% power to the front or rear as needed. So you have a better system engaged "before" needed. The suburban and even some other AWD systems will only activate the extra axle after slip has been noticed and I don't like that. It reacts in milliseconds but I still don't like the after the fact engagement.
My choice for daily driving is AWD unless you are gonna do off roading where a conventional 4WD system with a 4LO is preferred.
SO - there are 2 types of AWD. One's that are TRULY on all the time and those that are just 2WD until slip is detected and then run AWD just as needed..these SUCK.
My favorite 4WD system off all time was my 2000 Cherokee Limited (XJ, not Grand Cherokee but the small one with 4.0L) It had the optional transfer case with EVERYTHING!! You had 2HI, 4HI, 4LO and 4 wheel auto which slit like my AWD truck and could run in that position on dry pavement like AWD. MISS that truck!
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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
My favorite 4WD system off all time was my 2000 Cherokee Limited (XJ, not Grand Cherokee but the small one with 4.0L) It had the optional transfer case with EVERYTHING!! You had 2HI, 4HI, 4LO and 4 wheel auto which slit like my AWD truck and could run in that position on dry pavement like AWD. MISS that truck!
The good ol' NP 242 transfer case. Dirt simple, very reliable. The 4Hi "fulltime" mode has an open center differential so if you get into some sloppy mud before engaging part-time mode, you can get down to one wheel spinning... but you should have moved the lever LONG before you get that deep in the goo. ;-)
And conversely if you leave it in part-time when pulling back onto the blacktop it'll make you regret it the first corner you come to. But again- you can't just be brain-dead when driving a manually controlled system. Personally I love that T-case too.
My favorite 4WD system off all time was my 2000 Cherokee Limited (XJ, not Grand Cherokee but the small one with 4.0L) It had the optional transfer case with EVERYTHING!! You had 2HI, 4HI, 4LO and 4 wheel auto which slit like my AWD truck and could run in that position on dry pavement like AWD. MISS that truck!
The good ol' NP 242 transfer case. Dirt simple, very reliable. The 4Hi "fulltime" mode has an open center differential so if you get into some sloppy mud before engaging part-time mode, you can get down to one wheel spinning... but you should have moved the lever LONG before you get that deep in the goo. ;-)
And conversely if you leave it in part-time when pulling back onto the blacktop it'll make you regret it the first corner you come to. But again- you can't just be brain-dead when driving a manually controlled system. Personally I love that T-case too.
Pigeonholing all AWD systems into a single comparison isn't very fair. They run that range from simple systems that are FWD until slip all the way to super sophisticated system with electronic differentials.
Same thing with 4WD. You've got manual shift systems, auto 4WD, full-time 4WD (that may or may not function very similar to some AWD systems). Lots of variance.
I think GMBoy hit it right though, AWD is great because a good system is already there, sorting out traction *before* you know you need it. This comes at the expense of true off-road capability. If you're commuting and seeing traction conditions typical of northern snow on paved roads, AWD is the better choice. If you venture into slippery conditions on unprepared roads or off-road, 4WD is for you.
That said, I think one of the best attainable systems (not Land Rover, Porsche, or Audi) is the Quadra Drive II system Jeep puts on the Grand Cherokee. An always-on system with electronic diffs in the center and rear (earlier ones had a front e-diff too), plus a good traction/stability control system, plus low range, plus an available air suspension, plus a good size tire. As far as a system that will handle be capable in nearly any situation, it doesn't get much better.
Same thing with 4WD. You've got manual shift systems, auto 4WD, full-time 4WD (that may or may not function very similar to some AWD systems). Lots of variance.
I think GMBoy hit it right though, AWD is great because a good system is already there, sorting out traction *before* you know you need it. This comes at the expense of true off-road capability. If you're commuting and seeing traction conditions typical of northern snow on paved roads, AWD is the better choice. If you venture into slippery conditions on unprepared roads or off-road, 4WD is for you.
That said, I think one of the best attainable systems (not Land Rover, Porsche, or Audi) is the Quadra Drive II system Jeep puts on the Grand Cherokee. An always-on system with electronic diffs in the center and rear (earlier ones had a front e-diff too), plus a good traction/stability control system, plus low range, plus an available air suspension, plus a good size tire. As far as a system that will handle be capable in nearly any situation, it doesn't get much better.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Pigeonholing all AWD systems into a single comparison isn't very fair. They run that range from simple systems that are FWD until slip all the way to super sophisticated system with electronic differentials.
Same thing with 4WD. You've got manual shift systems, auto 4WD, full-time 4WD (that may or may not function very similar to some AWD systems). Lots of variance.
I think GMBoy hit it right though, AWD is great because a good system is already there, sorting out traction *before* you know you need it. This comes at the expense of true off-road capability. If you're commuting and seeing traction conditions typical of northern snow on paved roads, AWD is the better choice. If you venture into slippery conditions on unprepared roads or off-road, 4WD is for you.
That said, I think one of the best attainable systems (not Land Rover, Porsche, or Audi) is the Quadra Drive II system Jeep puts on the Grand Cherokee. An always-on system with electronic diffs in the center and rear (earlier ones had a front e-diff too), plus a good traction/stability control system, plus low range, plus an available air suspension, plus a good size tire. As far as a system that will handle be capable in nearly any situation, it doesn't get much better.
Hey, thanks for the compliment and furthermore....I agree with all you said. x2 on the Jeep quadradrive systems! They are fantastic.
Pigeonholing all AWD systems into a single comparison isn't very fair. They run that range from simple systems that are FWD until slip all the way to super sophisticated system with electronic differentials.
Same thing with 4WD. You've got manual shift systems, auto 4WD, full-time 4WD (that may or may not function very similar to some AWD systems). Lots of variance.
I think GMBoy hit it right though, AWD is great because a good system is already there, sorting out traction *before* you know you need it. This comes at the expense of true off-road capability. If you're commuting and seeing traction conditions typical of northern snow on paved roads, AWD is the better choice. If you venture into slippery conditions on unprepared roads or off-road, 4WD is for you.
That said, I think one of the best attainable systems (not Land Rover, Porsche, or Audi) is the Quadra Drive II system Jeep puts on the Grand Cherokee. An always-on system with electronic diffs in the center and rear (earlier ones had a front e-diff too), plus a good traction/stability control system, plus low range, plus an available air suspension, plus a good size tire. As far as a system that will handle be capable in nearly any situation, it doesn't get much better.
Hey, thanks for the compliment and furthermore....I agree with all you said. x2 on the Jeep quadradrive systems! They are fantastic.
With all this agreement and happiness going around, I feel a group hug coming on.
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If you need a robust design for off-road use, a part time 4WD system is probably a must. If you need a system designed for on-road use that is light enough so as to not weigh the car down and ruin the handling dynamics, AWD is preferable. Both do well if used as intended. Engage a part time 4WD system on pavement and you'll probably get a lot of driveline bind and wheel chatter (and possibly break something). Try to use a car-based AWD system off-road and you'll either burn up a differential or transfer unit or get seriously stuck.
It's like a dragster vs. a Formula 1 car. Both can be raced and both are extremely good at what they do. Use either outside of its design envelope and you'll be sorry.
It's like a dragster vs. a Formula 1 car. Both can be raced and both are extremely good at what they do. Use either outside of its design envelope and you'll be sorry.
Where are the "front wheel drive and snow tires" and "my crown vic has never gotten stuck" people? No Subaru comment yet? What gives? Is BITOG guy always like this after work?
i got my crown vic stuck a couple of times in the snow... high centered on the diff on a huge chunk of ice... after i was ran off the road by a [censored] in a jeep doin 50 in 18" of snow...
AWD is fantastic, especially some of the pretty advanced AWD systems out their that Audi and Subaru have....until you need lockers...than 4wd rocks.
Problem is most 4wd systems are kind of [censored], real ones have three air or hydraulic lockers.
Good modern AWD systems channel torque with the brake calipers to the wheels that have grip so you can corner on poor surfaces like a rally champ.
Or you get something like the Mercedes G wagon which has AWD full time but its [censored] AWD and tries to get a limited locking affect with the brake calipers. Great for road use but if you get a wheel in the air it won't do much for you.
Until you push the magic buttons which engage the lockers and disable all electronic traction aids. Than you can get anywhere unless you high center it, not for pavement use though!
Problem is most 4wd systems are kind of [censored], real ones have three air or hydraulic lockers.
Good modern AWD systems channel torque with the brake calipers to the wheels that have grip so you can corner on poor surfaces like a rally champ.
Or you get something like the Mercedes G wagon which has AWD full time but its [censored] AWD and tries to get a limited locking affect with the brake calipers. Great for road use but if you get a wheel in the air it won't do much for you.
Until you push the magic buttons which engage the lockers and disable all electronic traction aids. Than you can get anywhere unless you high center it, not for pavement use though!
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AWD is for "chick car" crossovers since most women drivers don't know when to press the 4wd "thingy" and end up in a snow bank.
4wd like the GM multi function tcase or Toyota 4Runner system is the very best. Gives you 3 choices to optimize mpg and give the best traction when needed.
4wd like the GM multi function tcase or Toyota 4Runner system is the very best. Gives you 3 choices to optimize mpg and give the best traction when needed.
real 4wd like NV242 are the best from the t-case, can split tourque 50/50 front to rear on dry pavement, can lock it, can pop into rear wheel drive and have low.
AWD is misnomer on a lot of [censored] CUV's, really are FWD until system detects slippage, then thru electrinic gimmicks, send tourque to opposite axle or use cheap visous couplers. SIL have CRVs and complain how lousey they are in 6 inches of snow, I laugh and said what do you want, you have FWD with [censored] all season tires until the front wheels slip, buy some better tires or get a FT 4wd LOL
AWD is misnomer on a lot of [censored] CUV's, really are FWD until system detects slippage, then thru electrinic gimmicks, send tourque to opposite axle or use cheap visous couplers. SIL have CRVs and complain how lousey they are in 6 inches of snow, I laugh and said what do you want, you have FWD with [censored] all season tires until the front wheels slip, buy some better tires or get a FT 4wd LOL
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If you need a system designed for on-road use that is light enough so as to not weigh the car down and ruin the handling dynamics, AWD is preferable
If you need a system that doesn't ruin handling dynamics, RWD is preferable
I'm mostly serious. In my opinion, AWD is almost always provided as an option on an FWD vehicle to give it better dry-road dynamics, and on RWD vehicles to give them better snow characteristics. That's why so many AWD vehicles are CUVs and other transverse-engine vehicles with front-drive as the primary drivetrain. Most of the time when a vehicle is offered with a choice of RWD or AWD though, the RWD vehicle is quicker and handles far better on dry pavement. The price may be worth it in the snow belt, but with few exceptions not on dry pavement.
If you need a system designed for on-road use that is light enough so as to not weigh the car down and ruin the handling dynamics, AWD is preferable
If you need a system that doesn't ruin handling dynamics, RWD is preferable
I'm mostly serious. In my opinion, AWD is almost always provided as an option on an FWD vehicle to give it better dry-road dynamics, and on RWD vehicles to give them better snow characteristics. That's why so many AWD vehicles are CUVs and other transverse-engine vehicles with front-drive as the primary drivetrain. Most of the time when a vehicle is offered with a choice of RWD or AWD though, the RWD vehicle is quicker and handles far better on dry pavement. The price may be worth it in the snow belt, but with few exceptions not on dry pavement.
You also need AWD if your putting down a lot of power and want it to hook up.
AWD Porsche and Audi's are amazing driving machines in all weather. I can't get over how good the new Audi A8 an 7's drive.
AWD Porsche and Audi's are amazing driving machines in all weather. I can't get over how good the new Audi A8 an 7's drive.
My relatively-inexpensive 2011 Suzuki Grand Vitara has full-time 4WD, a lockable center diff, a low range, and electronic traction control to lessen the need for front and rear diff locks.
Most other soft-roaders are FWD-based with a multiplate clutch at the rear diff pinion which activates only when an axle speed difference is detected. I understand these are known as "on-demand" or systems. As far as I know, Haldex invented this idea and some cars such as VW do use their hardware.
What I don't like about traditional "part-time" systems (which don't have a center diff) is that the surface must be somewhat slippery before they can be used, reducing the value on a sealed road.
From what I've read Subaru manual transmission cars have a real AWD system with a viscous center diff while the autos have the on-demand type.
Wait, what was original question?
Most other soft-roaders are FWD-based with a multiplate clutch at the rear diff pinion which activates only when an axle speed difference is detected. I understand these are known as "on-demand" or systems. As far as I know, Haldex invented this idea and some cars such as VW do use their hardware.
What I don't like about traditional "part-time" systems (which don't have a center diff) is that the surface must be somewhat slippery before they can be used, reducing the value on a sealed road.
From what I've read Subaru manual transmission cars have a real AWD system with a viscous center diff while the autos have the on-demand type.
Wait, what was original question?
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