4L80E rebuild for 1100hp questions

A Billet Input Shaft, Forward Hub, & 36 Element Intermediate Sprag/Direct Drum are really the only hard parts absolutely needed at 1200 RWHP in a mid-weight car like a 4th Gen F-Body.

The 2001 & up O/D Roller Clutch can be used, But NEVER beat on it or launch in D4!!! All other forward manual gears (L1/L2/D3) have the Overrun Clutch applied to support & protect the O/D Roller Clutch from shock loads.
The CK Billet O/D Carrier is a nice piece, But I don't think you will need it. BTW....It will fit '91-'00 4L80's without buying a Overrun Clutch Hub/Housing.

Jake Shoe's D3 Brake is really good!

Suncoast has a Aluminum Direct Drum that fit's 4L80's, Though I haven't had a chance to run one yet......HERE
 
Hi Clinebarger, I've decided to also get the Jakes D3 transbrake. Since I'm using CK's master kit to do the internal dual feed mod, CK's instructions say to use all the check balls except for 2 of them, while Jakes D3 instructions say that only 4 check balls are used total. What would be the correct # of check balls to use and their placement when performing both of these modifications in addition to all the other mods we discussed above? I'm going to see if CK has the direct drums with 36 sprag in stock that can hold 6 of the 0.090 steels and frictions in the direct instead of 6 of the 0.770 steels. Not necessary I know to use 6 of the 0.077" steels... but the deeper drum for the 0.090" would be better.
 
Last edited:
Kind of got sidetracked on this project due to other priorities but I'm back on it now. Found 2005 4L80E core, and now the rounding up of all the correct tools for this project begins. From what I've read, the kent more tools are not necessary, but one special tool that is critical is the OD clutch drum assembly tool to install the clutch into the drum. For this, I'm wondering if SST-0158-HD on ebay for $62 will work?

Is 34002EAF a good overhaul kit for gaskets, rings, seals, etc? If not, what overhaul kit would you recommend for a DIY'er that is similar to this kit?

Do you know of a good video that shows removal and disassembly of the valve body? As in, how to remove the pins, springs, valves, and everything else on it?

I watched a very detailed video that didn't include valve body disassembly, but even after doing so I was still confused on some things. Below are the timestamps on the video, and some questions.



At 44 min into this video, a foot press tool is being used, but I'm assuming I can use the SST-0158-HD tool. If this ebay tool is junk, what would a better tool be?

One thing that really confused me when watching this video was at 1:17:00 in the video, he mentions to apply 2nd clutch and comments that it needs one more friction, but never installs another friction and then says to apply the 2nd clutch and that the drum should not move. What exactly is going on here, what tool is being used? How do I "apply the 2nd clutch" exactly? He says "there's a special tool to grab this drum, and you can fabricate a special tool, but then he just drops it in by hand. I'm confused....

At 40 min mark, he's using a lip seal installer tool for direct piston but it looks like a generic tool?

At 51:57 he's installing the teflon rings on the shaft with a 45 deg pic. Is this how you do it or do you use a special tool? What are you using for piston seal, forward clutch, and direct clutch installers?

At 1:07:00 he's using a flat punch with sharpness taken off to stake the bushing in the oil pump. Ok I guess?

At 1:10:00 using a hose clamp to align the oil pump. Ok I guess?

Video skips, but clearly we want to make sure we drill line to lube hole first before securing pump with hose clamp lol

1:37:00 he has two different assembly lubes, green and Transmaxx Filtran 803986 Gold. Is the gold stuff fine for working with the valve body also?

1:42:00 looks like a special valve in stall tool.... where can I get this?

1:52:00 he's using an air gun, but what exactly is he checking for? Can you elaborate on this?

He doesn't use any feeler gauges, and he doesn't check any end play tolerances like from Reaction Carrier to Center Support,Direct Drum to Forward Hub, or Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized) Why not?


My tools/items list so far is:
A set of round tip c clamp vise grips IRHT82586 on Amazon for $23.27 to lower everything from the center support to the output shaft into the case

Transmission stand to work with engine stand - $150
Harbor Freight Engine stand - $70
SST-0158-HD - Universal Clutch Drum Spring Compressor Transmission Tool –ebay - $62
Brush for assembly lube
Small metal spatula
5/16 metal punch
Feeler gauges – 796168988679 on amazon - $9
OTC (714) Horseshoe Lock Ring Pliers – Amazon $29
Harbor freight 2 angle scribes for output shaft snap ring – 63697- $2
Transmaxx Filtran 803986 Assembly Lube, Gold - $12
Lip seal tool (Lip Wizard) 0206A - $9
Dial indicator w/ mag base – 791617731370 on Amazon - $34
Shankly Bushing Removal Tool, Bushing Driver Set, 50 Piece – Amazon - $70
ARES 70662-8-Inch Flat Nose Duck Bill Pliers - $15
ATSG 4l80e manual - $25
Drill bits for drilling the feed in the pump
Torque wrench
5 gal empty bucket
Screw driver set
Socket set
Hammer
Mineral spirits.
Lots and lots of microfiber rags

Anything missing?
 
Last edited:
The SST-0158-HD clutch return spring tool is a joke, A nice foot press is ideal IF you're going to build a lot of units. CTA Tools 6500 works well.

34002EAF is just a generic part number for a '97 & up Paper & Rubber kit, Transtec kits usually come with a Lip Wizard.

Don't know of any valve body videos, When I learn a new unit.....I buy a ATSG manual & take my time!

The video you posted......
1. Use a Lip Wizard! Feeler Gauge type tools take experience to use! DO NOT disassemble the OD Housing/Piston Assembly as it takes special tools!!!!

2. I have resizing tools for the Forward Clutch sealing rings on the Turbine Shaft.....But his method will work. Use a Lip Wizard on the Forward, Intermediate, Direct, & Overrun apply piston lip seals.

3. I use Loctite 648 Retaining Compound on the Pump Bushing....Yet to have one spin out.

4. A big clamp is how it's done.

5. Drilling the Lube to Line & the Drain Back Hole is the first thing you do to the Pump Housing.

6. I use TransJel Red & Gold....If it's cold, I use Gold....If it's hot, I use Red. It's hot/warm here most of the time.

7. That's part of a Transgo shift kit, The issue with the AFL Filter cracking was solved long ago.....Replace the filter with a new one & move on.

8. He's air checking the Overrun, Overdrive, Intermediate, Direct, & Forward clutches for big leaks, He needs to invest in a rubber tip for his air blower!

9. I can't speak for him, But.....He's playing odds......Odds are it will last through the warranty period. Rear Unit End-Play is VERY important when you rollerize the output! You can likely skip the rest & be okay.

I assemble mine a little different......I lower the geartrain in, Then I install the Center Support. Reusing the old Lo/Reverse Roller Clutch can cause issues with the rollers falling out during assembly like he did.
 
Thanks again!

I forgot to clarify, Jake is out of cores so I'm sending him mine so that he can use it to make the transbrake. I have it all cleaned and ready to ship.

So I'll be ok with the 34002EAF for the teflon seals and lip seals then, or is there a kit that is better quality that you like to use?

Someone said EB0037 on amazon is good for compressing the clutch springs. I'll give that a try. I was thinking of using the electrical tape/hose clamp method for the 4 teflon seals on the shaft. Right now I'm trying to remove the input shaft from the stator? Does it just tap right out, or is there something I need to remove to get it out?

ASTG manual doesn't arrive until Thursday, much like most of my parts but I already have it almost completely disassembled lol.

IMG_2639.JPG
 
Whoops, o-ring had to be removed. Well, nothing else I can do until I get my tools
on Thursday lol
 
Clinebarger, you had mentioned that you like to use an Aluminum TH400 piston in the direct drum along with the TH400 spring retainer when building a 4L80E. So would that retainer part number be U34964 (no check ball) or U349645 (with check ball)?

My core is a 2005.

You mentioned a fluted Sun Gear Shaft bushing in place of the smooth bushing in the Overrun Hub/Sun Gear for better oil flow to the O/D Sun Gear Bearing. Is the part number for this fluted bushing 34037C?

For the direct setup, I was intending on:

36 element inner sprag, sprag race, and deeper aluminum direct drum to fit 36 element sprag

965 Direct clutch piston, replace with TH400 direct clutch piston U34964 or U349645?
975 Use TH400 DIRECT CLUTCH PISTON AND APPLY/RELEASE SPRING ASSEMBLY U34984
127 CUSHION PLATE WAVED 6 lugs Item #34127EA – use piece from 4L80E stock core
126 6x direct steels .090
106 6x direct clutch .080 – Raybestos stage 1
146 PRESSURE PLATE DIRECT Item #D34146B - use piece from 4L80E stock core
878 Snap Ring - Holds Forward and Direct Pressure Plate In drum Item #U34878 – use piece from 4L80E stock core

Will all this play nicely with each other?


Also can you comment on your intermediate clutch setup? You mention replacing the flimsy clutch piston retainer with a TH400, but in this you like to use the 4L80E springs and not the TH400 springs, correct? Now with this setup, I can still use a piston from a 4L80E that uses the integrated waved steel, correct? I'm not sure if my 2005 core has this, or if I need to purchase part U34962C. Also do you use a billet pressure plate or the stock pressure plate?

My plan for the intermediate setup was:

962 PISTON INTERMEDIATE CLUTCH 4L80E (1.00" TALL, USED with integrated waved steel) Item #U34962C
972 RETAINER INT CLUTCH PISTON from TH400, but use the 4L80E springs and not the U34972 TH400 springs. Is part# U34982A or U34982?
872 Snap Ring Holds Center Support In Case Item #U34872 – use stock core
104 4x FRICTION INTERMEDIATE .080" TH400 (Tan Smooth, Waved Borg Warner) 65-UP Item #B34104
124 1x "waved" steel plate. Black with little tangs along the inside diameter. D34125A
124 4x STEEL INTERMEDIATE FLAT 4L80E .076" THICK #34124E
124 have 2 of the 0.100 THICK steels from a TH400 if necessary to get clearance #34124K
125 1x waved intermediate from a 4L80E
144 CK Billet PRESSURE PLATE INTERMEDIATE intended for a 4-count clutch assembly. - 4L80ECC/BIPP-L
873 Snap Ring, Holds Intermediate Pressure Plate In – replace with - 0.106 snap ring and is 727 - A22878C

Does this look good?

Also when using Jakes D3 transbrake, the instructions state to
Drill a release hole in the direct drum .055-.060
Leave the center seal off the direct drum
Omit the 2 seals on the accumulator piston (inner piston)
Flat sand the servo cover
Install only 4 checkballs which will be 1, 3, 4, and 10

Is it safe to assume that these modifications can be performed as well when using the D3 valve body?

Drill a "Lube to Line Bypass" in the pump cover 0.055”
Enlarge the feed passage on the rear stator support with a 0.125” drill bit
Enlarge the seal drain back hole in the pump cover with a 0.250” drill bit
Enlarge the lube hole in the Overrun Clutch housing with a .125" drill bit at 45 deg angle
Plug the reverse feed in center support. Keeps 3rd/Reverse oil from leaking between the Support & Case
Remove/omit the second from the top Sealing Ring on the Center Support
Use an Oversized AFL valve kit S34741LK (requires tool F-34994-TL22) (34994-22K)
Use TCC regulator valve 34994-01K

Does the D3 brake setup delete the 3rd and 4th accumulators I take it?

**No need for Sonnax 4L80E LB1 boost valve & PR spring 4L80E-LB1
**No need to plug the valve body where the pressure relief valve is installed with D3 setup
 
Last edited:
*Fluted Sun Gear Bushing part numbers.....
WIT. 34054AB
Durabond. 03131

*U34964 is a Forward Piston number & I'm not familiar U349645 (Has too many numbers) Maybe needs an alphabetical affix instead of the 5 on the end?
I machine my pistons in-house & don't concern myself with part numbers, TH400 Aluminum Pistons interchange......Both Forward & Direct Pistons will fit a 4L80E Direct Drum. Buying a stock one & have your clutch clearance be right in an aftermarket drum is probably not happening.
What drum are you buying??
*You want a "Bleed Checkball" in either the Drum or the Piston.....But never both.
*U34984 Retainer will work.

*You don't want Tan Waved Intermediate Frictions, They're too thick for a 4-Clutch set-up! You will want Flat .070" High Energy (Borg Warner or Raybestos) that comes in a stock '97 & up 4L80E Friction Module.....If fact I would just buy a Borg Warner Friction Module & 1 extra Direct/Forward Friction......Picture below.
*The Intermediate Piston & Cushion should be able to be reused, Remove the springs from the 4L80E retainer & use them with the TH400 Retainer. TH400's only used 3 springs......Use all 12 4L80E springs!
*The CK Intermediate backing plate is a NICE piece but not absolutely needed, I've never seen a '97 & up powdered backing plate break!
*A727 snap ring is fine.

Follow Jake's directions to the Tee, He developed this & knows more than me about it!!!!! You can do these as they have nothing to do with the Brake.....
Drill a "Lube to Line Bypass" in the pump cover 0.055”
Enlarge the feed passage on the rear stator support with a 0.125” drill bit
Enlarge the seal drain back hole in the pump cover with a 0.250” drill bit
Enlarge the lube hole in the Overrun Clutch housing with a .125" drill bit at 45 deg angle
******DO NOT modify his Valve Body!!!!!*****

The Pressure Relief Valve is a aftermarket modification (TransGo) & is not drilled from the factory, I plug them only IF they've been drilled. Does yours have this modification?

d2XXW3F.jpg
 
Last edited:
For the part numbers, I went to: https://www.transpartsonline.com/TRANS_PARTS_FILE/tpcat.php?TransPartsOnline=400&TransPartsType=400

and in the search bar I entered 965, which comes back showing:

PISTON, FORWARD / DIRECT CLUTCH (Aluminum / No check ball) 64-UP does not use dished type cushion plate #127 uses waved type plate
Item #U34964

PISTON, DIRECT CLUTCH (Aluminum / WITH check ball) 64-UP does not use dished type cushion plate #127 uses waved type plate
Item #U34965

I'm buying Jakes Billet Aluminum Direct drum for use with a 36 sprag. I will check with him to see if it has a bleed checkball, and will then purchase the correct aluminum piston, either one with or without the checkball. Do you already have machined aluminum pistons for sale on hand? I saw a video about machining off 600 off the piston to get the tolerances correct, but I'm not sure if the depth of the Billet drum will be the same as the depth of a 4L80E drum or not. Will need to check with Jake.

So assuming all the clearances are proper, I'm looking at:

TH400 direct clutch piston machined for proper clearance
TH400 direct clutch spring retainer U34984 and 16 springs (TH400)
Cushion plate, waved 6 lugs 34127EA taken from a late model 4L80E (use existing one from 05 core)
6x direct steels .090 #34126A
6x direct clutches .080 B34106E
4L80E late model pressure plate D34146B (use existing one from 05 core)
TH400 snap ring U34877 (not the 4L80E snap ring)

Intermediate setup:

4L80E intermediate clutch piston, (1.00" TALL, USED with integrated waved steel) part U34962C (use existing one from 05 core if available)
TH400 intermediate clutch spring retainer U34982A, using twelve TH400 4L80E springs U34972 (do not use cupped outer edge retainer U34982)
4L80E snap ring U34872 taken from a late model 4L80E (use existing one from 05 core)
4x intermediate clutches, 0.070" A34104EA
1x "waved" steel plate. Black with little tangs along the inside diameter. D34125A
4x intermediate steels, late model 4L80E style .076" thick #34124E
4L80E pressure plate (use existing one from 05 core)
Snap Ring, Holds Intermediate Pressure Plate In, stronger snap ring part A22878C

I plan to purchase:
-Borg High energy Friction plate kit 34035KIT or 34119EA
-Steel plate kit Raybestos (34139EA) 000592
and then add the additional .080 direct friction and .090 direct steel

I found that it's cheaper than getting the waves and frictions together, at lease at my part sources.

Does D34125A intermediate wave plate already come in a 4L80E 05 core? If so I can remove that off the purchase list.
Also I read that it's a good idea to used a waved steel cushion plate from a TH400. 12 lug .060 part 34127. Do you advise this?
Disregard the 0.077 steels in the last row of the image below, but basically I think we are looking at:

friction and steels.jpg


Mine does not have the Pressure Relief Valve mod done.

Plug the reverse feed in center support. Keeps 3rd/Reverse oil from leaking between the Support & Case - NO
Remove/omit the second from the top Sealing Ring on the Center Support - YES
The D3 Valve body should already have and oversized AFL valve
Stock TCC Reg valve is OK
The D3 valve body will come with a pressure regulator spring
I plan to just follow the D3 instructions, with the drill mods you OK above.

Are Bosch TI2132 Titanium-Coated Drill Bits good enough to get the job done?

Should I replace any of the internals inside the pump like the springs or valves with stock equivalents, or at least take it apart to clean it?

How critical is it to note the bushing locations that I'm about to replace? I don't need to use a depth mic or anything on them do I?

I see here that you explain how to measure tolerances and endplay in this link below, but do you know of a good video that shows it being performed? I have a Fine Adjustment & SAE Dial Test Indicator & 22 Piece Anvile Point Set with magnetic base, a set of angled feeler gauges and a set of straight feeler gauges.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/4l80e.271222/page-2

I have the tolerances you listed noted below:

Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Reaction Carrier to Center Support......008"-.015"
Direct Drum to Forward Hub......003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Front unit.....005-.008" more/greater than the Rear Unit

If that ASTG manual would ever arrive, I would probably have the answers to many of these questions lol....
 
It's the earlier 4L80E "Bellville" Forward & Direct Cushion plates that would break, The late Wave Cushion Plates seem to hold up quite well. The downside is you can't run them against a Friction like you can the TH400 Wave Plates.....You have to stack the 4L80E ones against the piston & then a flat steel on top thus taking up more space in the drum.

Don't need any TH400 snap rings for the Direct Drum.....You can reuse the 4L80E ones as they are the same.

Basically the only mods you're going to make to the Intermediate Clutch is the TH400 spring retainer & a A727 snap ring. Not to further complicate or confuse.....Just information!
*You cannot run a TH400 Wave in the Intermediate Clutch unless you also run a TH400 Intermediate Piston that has a taller height. If you were to run a TH400 Wave, It wouldn't rest on the 4L80E Piston, It would rest on the case lugs & allow quite a bit of piston movement before it started applying the clutch.
*I'm running a TH400 3-Clutch Intermediate set-up in the 4L80E in my Camaro with Raybestos grooved HD graphite frictions only because I like the shift feel over the smooth 4-Clutch 4L80E set-up. BUT.....I'm making half the power you're looking at & lower line pressures. You will need 4 clutches!

Standard HSS drill bits work fine, Cast Iron is an easy material to drill. Have some bits I've been using for 20+ years!

It probably needs Pump Gears, Look at where the Converter rides for signs of wear! Clean the pump real well & check for valve movement with a pocket screwdriver.

Most bushings will set right below the Chamfer, Watch the small bushing in Output Shaft as it has to clear the bearing right above it. The Center Support Bushing has to be Indexed properly & is difficult without the correct drivers along with a press.

I don't know of any end play videos, Just so you know.....Aftermarket Rollerized Forward Hubs are NOT designed to have end-play between it & the Direct Drum.

Everything else looks pretty good.
 
Thanks again! I will check the pump gears. Would it be alright for me to take pics of all the hard parts and get your comments on their level of wear? Saw a vid showing the need for a press for the center support bushing. I'll have a machine shop handle that. Good to know that Aftermarket Rollerized Forward Hubs should not have end-play between it & the Direct Drum. That saves me from having to buy Sonnax washers 34301-078 and 34301-094. I suppose I should still have Sonnax 34298-078 Forward Clutch Hub Washer (Front) on hand then? I just found out that Jake supplies the Billet direct drum with the 36 element sprag and friction/steel setup inside it complete. I'm assuming it's an aluminum TH400 piston machined to fit 6 clutches. I'll find out. I'll clean the pump real well & check for valve movement. Jake is sending me a machined pump and adapter along with a Reid SFI bellhousing. Not sure where exactly to cut the stock housing to make it all work together, so I'll probably just put my machinist in touch with Jakes. Would it be alright to a few pics of some of the hard parts and get your take on level of wear and what should be replaced?

I believe a billet intermediate pressure plate is offered in different thicknesses, so that would require not needing to run the TH400 piston then? Someone had told me they were running this setup with the billet int pressure plate but didn't specify if a TH400 piston was used or not.


-4x STEEL INTERMEDIATE FLAT late model 4L80E that are 0.076" THICK part number #34124E. Possibly using a few 0.100 thick steels to substitute and reduce clearance
-1x "waved" steel plate. Black with little tangs along the inside diameter. #D34125A
-4x FRICTION INTERMEDIATE that are 0.080" that are used in the TH400 (Tan Smooth, Waved Borg Warner) Item #B34104
-TH400 retainer and high rate springs, similar to CK's 4LCC/ICARSA setup.
-For the intermediate piston, a late OEM 4L80E that is 1" tall and comes with an with integrated waved steel part number is U34962C. This has a lower installed height that makes up for the wave that rides on the piston counter bore.

Are TH400 springs higher rated springs than 4L80E? I ask based on the description of the 4LCC/ICARSA but for all I know that part could use 4L80E springs?

Would this setup be any better than the only changes being a TH400 spring retainer & a A727 snap ring or is it not necessary on my application?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top