$48 Value battery 2 week test

[blupupher]

Yeah you are in Texas blupupher and that makes life hard on your batteries.

3 years is decent considering where you are at.

Hope you have been doing good man.

Yeah, I know, the heat is bad for batteries, but sometimes it is just a crapshoot on them.
My mom had a NAPA battery last over 5 years in her Saturn Vue.
I don't think I have had a battery last more than 3.5 years in my truck (about to get my 4th battery in 9 years).
I have debated getting the Walmart AGM ($150 for the Group 65 for my truck) just to test if it is "better". Comes with a 4 year warranty, so maybe it would last that long in the truck?

Last time I was at Walmart, they actually had some "N" (northern) batteries in stock for some sizes (higher CCA, more, but thinner lead plates) that don't last near as long as "S" (southern) batteries (lower CCA (but still at or above vehicle requirements) with thicker lead plates) that tend to last longer in the heat.

Work sucks, but pays the bills, some days I want to get out of nursing, but stick with it.
Thanks for asking.

 

[wrcsixeight]

I was led to believe that the difference between N and S batteries was not the number or thickness of the plates, but the strength of the electrolyte.
This was gleaned from an intelligent engineer who was in the industry 30+ years ago, and of course things have changed for the max profit mindset, so who knows if it still remains true or partly true, or partly true sometimes.

For the flooded batteries with removable caps, of the marine and starting batteries I have dipped with a temperature compensating hydrometer, the electrolyte has ranged from 1.270 to 1.285 when fully charged, and newish.

But when the batteries are low on water, it is far easier to get a 1.285 reading, and when refilled that same battery struggles to read 1.270, even when it is held at high voltages and physically agitated to thoroughly mix the electrolyte.

Likewise when low on water, just above the plates full charge resting voltage can read abnormally high, and when refilled abnormally low.

I believe the CCA can be manipulated just by the strength of the electrolyte.

Each 10 degree C in rise of the electrolyte doubles the rate at which the sulfuric acid solution eats the plates, so manipulating its strength can certainly affect the amount of warranty returns.

I would be interested if Southern batteries do indeed ship with ~1.265 max strength electrolyte, and northern batteries ~1.310, as that engineer claimed was truth 30 years ago.

Either way I think that blanket statements should be taken with a grain of salt or 2. There's some findings in the following link which go against the common beliefs, regarding plate number and thickness of starting vs marine batteries.

https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/

 

[eljefino]

OP, what are you using for a battery tester? Does it have built-in temperature compensation?

The Midtronics I used at the tire store did; it required that I point an infared temp sensor at the battery before calculating a result. I similarly expect it to calculate SOC from voltage and temp, and use that data for the final result as well.

My Cen-Tech and other Chinese special make no mention of whether they do or not, but if they did it would be internal to the device and assuming the battery is the same temp.

 

[blupupher]

I was led to believe that the difference between N and S batteries was not the number or thickness of the plates, but the strength of the electrolyte.
This was gleaned from an intelligent engineer who was in the industry 30+ years ago, and of course things have changed for the max profit mindset, so who knows if it still remains true or partly true, or partly true sometimes.

...

I have also read that the electrolyte balance is different, but not sure if it is either a plate thickness difference or different strength electrolyte or a combination of both, or just the same battery with a label difference?

I personally would not buy a battery marketed as a northern battery down here in Texas regardless of what the difference (if any real difference) is.

 

[andyd]

I have 2 of the HF 5$ , 1/2 amp floaters . 1for the U1 battery for my mower and the other to keep the Rat's battery going. I can usually get 3seasons out of a U1 before it needs a jump to start the mower. I'm not scientific about it. I just plug them in when I remember it. I try to plug the Rat in at least once a month.

 

[zzyzzx]

3) If I was leaving a vehicle parked for 2 weeks in an area not under my control, I would disconnect the battery, in which case it shouldn't drop as low as 12.17V in only two weeks.

I would have left it on a small solar charger.

 

[Dave9]

^ Maybe, but then there is one more thing a potential thief sees, to tempt them.

 

[bullwinkle]

The small solar maintainers are lifesavers! My F-450 can go 2 months without being driven, but the solar maintainer keeps the 2 group 65 Everstart Maxx batteries topped up. I used to actually keep TWO maintainers on my '06 Ram, because the keyless entry, etc. drew more than the 10 watt maintainer put out, but I haven't lost a battery yet on seldom driven vehicles since I started using them. I doubt if anyone's going to break into a car to steal a ~$20 maintainer! Also, the xB's Value Power is now coming up on 4 years old with no issues, but that car could probably start on a few D cells in series!

 

[zzyzzx]

The small solar maintainers are lifesavers! My F-450 can go 2 months without being driven, but the solar maintainer keeps the 2 group 65 Everstart Maxx batteries topped up. I used to actually keep TWO maintainers on my '06 Ram, because the keyless entry, etc. drew more than the 10 watt maintainer put out, but I haven't lost a battery yet on seldom driven vehicles since I started using them. I doubt if anyone's going to break into a car to steal a ~$20 maintainer! Also, the xB's Value Power is now coming up on 4 years old with no issues, but that car could probably start on a few D cells in series!

Your favorite solar maintainer?

I've got a few years old cheap HF one that works great. I tried to buy another one, but the newer ones are junk and only work in the HF parking lot, and break when I tested them again when I got home.

 

[bullwinkle]

Pretty sure mine are HF ones? I did have a Coleman one croak & killed my Mom’s Matrix battery, stopped charging over 10 volts.

 

[sky jumper]

Follow up on this Walmart Value 24F... now at 4yrs old it measures 545cca (585 rated, 695 initial measurement). It passes a 100A load test just fine, but I do think it's finally on it's way out... I regularly charge it with a 3 stage charger, and it recently started to get "stuck" in absorption mode (14.6v @ 1.2a). It would typically revert to float charging at 13.6v after a few mins. Also, one of the cells has developed darkened electrolyte. I'm guessing the suspect cell has a soft short and is drawing too much charge current for the charger to switch to float. I'll probably replace it with another Value battery before the summer road tripping starts, but I must say, $48 for 4+ years of trouble free service is a pretty good deal.

If not the Walmart Value battery, I'd go with the Sam's Club Duracell (East Penn) 24F which I put in my wife's RX350. That battery is a beast and I'm thinking it will go 7+ years. No point fooling around with the Plus or Maxx batteries at Walmart.

and to reply to @eljefino

OP, what are you using for a battery tester? Does it have built-in temperature compensation?

The Midtronics I used at the tire store did; it required that I point an infared temp sensor at the battery before calculating a result. I similarly expect it to calculate SOC from voltage and temp, and use that data for the final result as well.

My Cen-Tech and other Chinese special make no mention of whether they do or not, but if they did it would be internal to the device and assuming the battery is the same temp.

I use a generic Chinese "V311B" blue tester like this https://share.temu.com/JSFMpt6FPoC it does not have temp compensation (that I know of) so I try to take measurements under similar conditions. it's not Nasa accurate, but close enough for trending over time.

 

[f355spider]

Follow up on this Walmart Value 24F... now at 4yrs old it measures 545cca (585 rated, 695 initial measurement). It passes a 100A load test just fine, but I do think it's finally on it's way out... I regularly charge it with a 3 stage charger, and it recently started to get "stuck" in absorption mode (14.6v @ 1.2a). It would typically revert to float charging at 13.6v after a few mins. Also, one of the cells has developed darkened electrolyte. I'm guessing the suspect cell has a soft short and is drawing too much charge current for the charger to switch to float. I'll probably replace it with another Value battery before the summer road tripping starts, but I must say, $48 for 4+ years of trouble free service is a pretty good deal.

If not the Walmart Value battery, I'd go with the Sam's Club Duracell (East Penn) 24F which I put in my wife's RX350. That battery is a beast and I'm thinking it will go 7+ years. No point fooling around with the Plus or Maxx batteries at Walmart.

and to reply to @eljefino



I use a generic Chinese "V311B" blue tester like this https://share.temu.com/JSFMpt6FPoC it does not have temp compensation (that I know of) so I try to take measurements under similar conditions. it's not Nasa accurate, but close enough for trending over time.

I wonder if a battery maintainer with a desulfation mode or phase might be of help?
I have an AGM battery that is 6 years old that was declining in voltage and CCA and I started plugging it in at night when I got home with a Battery Minder with a continuous desulfation mode during float. Did this at least 5 nights a week and over the next two months it slowly improved to exceed its CCA rating again.

There are some maintainers with a more aggressive desulfation that claim they can break it up in a few hours and do this automatically or manually before the absorbtion phase

 

[walterjay]

I put one of those $48.00 batteries in a family members car about 6 years ago. Still going strong

 

[sky jumper]

yep, so this morning it measured 325cca, a sharp drop off from the most recent test a week ago (509). it then failed a 100A load test, and then barely started the vehicle. so it lasted 4yrs 3mo. My local Walmart just got fresh 24F Value batteries in so I picked one up for $70 (40% price increase since 2021). I measured all seven 24Fs on the shelf (don't judge me) and picked the one with highest capacity... 637cca @ 12.67v on my tester. I'm giving it a full charge before installing tomorrow.

I still think these value batteries are the best bang for the buck. I don't think the $140 maxx or costco or Sams EP would last 8+ years in my application, although I was tempted to test it out.

 

[f355spider]

I'm wondering if yours could have been brought back with a battery tender with a desulfation mode?

I have six and seven year old AGMs in my BMWs and they all exceed their CCA ratings. One was dropping slowly last year from exceeding its 900 CCA rating at around 1000 CCA to around 870. It was connected to a Granite Digital Save a Battery tender several times a week for the past few years, but I switched to a Battery Minder brand with continuous desulfation. After a little over three months of plugging in each night it now tests at over 1000 CCA again. I am convinced that a battery tender with continuous desulfation can in some cases restore and better maintain a battery.

 

[repairman54]

I am convinced that a battery tender with continuous desulfation can in some cases restore and better maintain a battery.

I have 2 old batteries still in service. Have not load tested them though. 14 yr old Odessey in my HD and a 13 yr old OEM Yuasa in a snowmobile that went through the winter just fine. Both always on a BatteryMinder when parked.
I agree, continuous desulifacation works.

 

[sky jumper]

I guess I've had mixed results with desulfation. I have several chargers with a desulfation mode, and none of them seem to do very much. one of them puts out some 30+ Vac at some unknown frequency, no way I'm hooking that up to my car, and disconnecting the battery to do it is too much hassle for the financial savings.

the one time it did seem to work was by simply using my DC power supply to push 16-17v through it for an entire day or so, and topping off the electrolyte several times. again, too much hassle, but even then it completely died a few months later anyway.

so I've given up trying to extend dying batteries when a new one is only 70 bucks. its easier, better use of my time, and no worries about the batt failing on a road trip with the family and dealing with the fallout from my wife...

 

[f355spider]

I guess I've had mixed results with desulfation. I have several chargers with a desulfation mode, and none of them seem to do very much. one of them puts out some 30+ Vac at some unknown frequency, no way I'm hooking that up to my car, and disconnecting the battery to do it is too much hassle for the financial savings.

the one time it did seem to work was by simply using my DC power supply to push 16-17v through it for an entire day or so, and topping off the electrolyte several times. again, too much hassle, but even then it completely died a few months later anyway.

so I've given up trying to extend dying batteries when a new one is only 70 bucks. its easier, better use of my time, and no worries about the batt failing on a road trip with the family and dealing with the fallout from my wife...

Definitely some work better than others. It appears there are a number of people using Battery Minder and Pulse Tech that do seem to work. I have a couple Granite Digital Save a Battery charger/tenders and they also have pulse desulfation during the float stage, and they clearly do not work. I know this from the example I posted above of my BMW being connected to it most evenings for at least two or three years and the battery slowly degraded during the last 8 or 9 months. I switched to Battery Minder and it not only stopped, but recovered over 130 CCA back.

These all use a pulse to break up the sulfate and do so during the float stage. They will not fix a battery overnight...it takes weeks or a few months to fully recover. But being more gentle, there is no risk of boiling eletrolyte, damaging the battery or car electronics.

 

[CheezWhiz]

I am cheap too, but I just say that outright instead of arguing the benefits of replacing my car battery every couple years!

 

[D1dad]

I got 5yrs out of a pair of group 65s in a power stroke with a half bad starter and never hooked to a maintainer. I'm now all about using a battery minder or a pulsetech when my cars aren't in action. The best way to avoid sulfation, is to never let it start. My wifes 24 had an EFB installed from the factory and went completely bad at detroit airport setting for 2 weeks. Nissan replaced it with an AGM that seems to be about 75% charged from her daily routine so it's always on the maintainer. My 21 and 18 have new flooded batteries and stay in the 90% range after a few days of being driven.