47RE Upgrades Done - But It Beat Me!

bbhero said:
Yeah I hope after 12 hours of tough circumstances and hard work it runs strong and right.

And like we all can learn to remember... Oil amount certainly can matter a lot.

My neighbor Holly had a VW that wasn't running right ... After it had been worked on. Turned out it was 1 quart low on transmission fluid. And after that it ran just fine.
Click to expand...

I was initially thinking that putting 6 in when I got 8 might be enough. I know these transmissions are sensitive to how much fluid, but there has to be a decent range in the design. It takes 17 Qts. after all.

But 4 low? Yeah, that’s a lot. That’s about the amount in the pan I think.
 
You asked about the Intermediate Band adjustment screw in your other thread.....It's in really deep!! Someone may have turned down the Direct Drum on a lathe which reduces the diameter OR the Intermediate Band is about gone. Once the 2 ends of the Band butt against each other.....It's over for 2nd gear.

For future reference, Soak the Teflon Seals in some HOT water which aids installation, Then size it down with your fingers. If needed....Wrap the seal tightly with a few rounds of Electrical tape & let it sit for 30 minutes of so.
 
clinebarger said:
You asked about the Intermediate Band adjustment screw in your other thread.....It's in really deep!! Someone may have turned down the Direct Drum on a lathe which reduces the diameter OR the Intermediate Band is about gone. Once the 2 ends of the Band butt against each other.....It's over for 2nd gear.

For future reference, Soak the Teflon Seals in some HOT water which aids installation, Then size it down with your fingers. If needed....Wrap the seal tightly with a few rounds of Electrical tape & let it sit for 30 minutes of so.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm. Can’t imagine that much wear is from 15-20k on a rebuild. I suspect it wasn’t done, or the turning down of the drum that you mention.

If it is the band, can it somehow be replaced in place??

Granted, I suspect removing the AT to take apart would be an easier job than what I did on my back...
 
Great work. Hope that seal won’t give any problems. I’m not too familiar with transmissions though I do know some as I have worked on some, can someone explain what a Jesus clip is? And it’s purpose? Thanks 🙂.
 
clinebarger said:
The unit would have to come out.
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Ive seen an install in place band, and I’ve also seen where the welded connector that interfaces with the strut gets hammered flatter, then the band gets pulled through with a wire.

Not a rigorous job, for certain, but it seems doable. I assume that the right way to do it is to resurface the drum, then get a proper band with more friction material on it to make up the delta?

I’m just trying to be prepared. I don’t use the truck a ton, but I’d kind of like to take it to 500k miles. 60k miles isn’t worth a $3000 rebuild...
 
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JHZR2 said:
Ive seen an install in place band, and I’ve also seen where the welded connector that interfaces with the strut gets hammered flatter, then the band gets pulled through with a wire.

Not a rigorous job, for certain, but it seems doable.

I’m just trying to be prepared. I don’t use the truck a ton, but I’d kind of like to take it to 500k miles. 60k miles isn’t worth a $3000 rebuild...
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Not surprised someone would do that, I better never catch a mechanic doing that to a customers vehicle;)
 
AutoMechanic said:
Oh haha 😂 I can’t believe I’ve never heard it referred to as that. Makes me look like an idiot. Thanks. Now I see where the name comes from they always fly off my pliers when trying to remove.
Click to expand...

The half circle ones with blunt ends are the ones that shoot into outer space never to be seen again, With good circlip/snap ring pliers....I've never had issues with the style pictured. Snap-on makes the best circlip pliers in my opinion.
 
clinebarger said:
The half circle ones with blunt ends are the ones that shoot into outer space never to be seen again, With good circlip/snap ring pliers....I've never had issues with the style pictured. Snap-on makes the best circlip pliers in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I have Cornwell snap ring pliers and some cheapy Tractor Supply ones I got free because they were missing the package. I do need a better pair for sure. Don’t have any for actual circlips though.
 
clinebarger said:
Not surprised someone would do that, I better never catch a mechanic doing that to a customers vehicle;)
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You do repairs the right way, and well photographed... not some YouTube hack.

I now have to wonder if the silver I see in the pan is actually where the friction material in the intermediate band is gone, resulting in metal on metal wear. I’m worried now...

I could get 72 in-lb, so it’s not like the band was overstretched or anything. But I wish I had looked in at the friction material... now I’m worried.

Is it driveable without 2nd/that band? Not that I want to do it, but primarily to limp home or to a shop?

TBH I would try to pull a band through if it was a good idea, just not a rigorous, full rebuild. But it sounds like a bad idea all around. If push comes to shove, I wonder if I can get the $500 band replacement “rebuild” versus a $3000 rebuild.

I haul heavy, not tow. I suspect that’s better for the AT... any suggestions on how to maximize life on that band?

9CE46D6B-7CD8-46D1-ACE5-41A1C283CCE0.jpeg
49063B35-A84E-4C59-9C52-4A43516A73FE.jpeg
 
JHZR2, Did you add putting a screen on that oil drain so nothing can go down that hole in the future, to your to do list for next week.

I would of stopped work with the messed up Teflon seal and waited until I got a replacement.
 
JimPghPA said:
JHZR2, Did you add putting a screen on that oil drain so nothing can go down that hole in the future, to your to do list for next week.

I would of stopped work with the messed up Teflon seal and waited until I got a replacement.
Click to expand...

LOL. That stupid oil drain hole is just a prime example of how you just cant make this stuff up when doing a job like this, that doesn’t go well/easily.

WRT the seal, it certainly crossed my mind. This stupid job is the worst, and having the whole thing up on ramps for many days waiting, then to hit who knows what in terms of weather, work, and family just wasn’t tenable. All of a sudden it would be 2-3 weeks in all practicality, maybe more, because of a stupid seal that’s too small.

If it was an o or d-ring I’d agree and couldn’t proceed. My take is the Teflon “seal” serves another purpose.

The manufacturer states:
Rubber and PTFE seals freshen the seals in Sonnax second gear super hold servo 22301B-01K to enhance positive sealing and prevent piston contact and bore scuffing in listed Chrysler applications. The improved seal design conserves pump volume.
Click to expand...

Which I imply that the ptfe seal is there to act as a spacer to keep the piston square and sliding in its bore. It’s sealing functionality is secondary, which is why the whole thing has seal rings everywhere.

I didn’t snap a final photo, but the ptfe ring was worked into the groove better than is shown, and there was no gap. I can’t see how it would seal any worse than all the other scarf cut seals that are used on this. Certainly no worse than the OE system that has merely one o-ring in each location.
 
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Well I’m happy to report that I finally made time (went to pick up lunch briefly), and did the road test.

It shifts perfectly, no issues. At light throttle, barely perceivable shifts. I might argue that they are slightly more firm than they were before, but not in any way that is undesirable. Downshifts back to 2nd/1st are barely perceivable, which I’d argue is a change, as I never noted them before.

Ill also note though that I don’t know what ATF was in there before. Could have been D/M or something else. In went ~9.5qts of ATF+4, so that might be part of it all too.

This power train is very smooth, especially for a 440k mile truck. The engine runs smooth and great, AT shifts nicely, etc. I think the fluid level is right on, because it wasn’t full hot (I could touch the dipstick and fluid), but it read about where @clinebarger indicated it should be from the FSM, shown here:

Chrysler AT Dipstick Crosshatch - Range?

My 47RE is shifting beautifully, but can be a little bit sluggish to start off in the very cold. I know per the FSM and from @clinebarger that the fluid has to be checked fully hot and in neutral. I did it today, and it looks great, but a little low. This was after driving about 25 miles on the...
bobistheoilguy.com

The gearing is:
1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69
Rear Axle: 3.54

Its close enough in 1/2/3, that with light throttle, it almost just keeps the same RPM and accelerates from 0-40 without feeling a thing. I guess it just lets the TC slip enough to do that? It’s always been like that, and very smooth... Of course the OD shift and lockup is a much more noticeable (but still very smooth) pretty significant drop in RPM, and surge of power, so once it’s doing 53 or so, it will eagerly do 73 or more.

Ill have to keep an eye on things... that front band does concern me as it stick has a gap, but the screw is in there deep, and I fear that at some point you just about can’t adjust it any more, and I don’t know what that means when the day comes, besides $$ rebuilds, but it’s driving great now!
 
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JimPghPA said:
I would of stopped work with the messed up Teflon seal and waited until I got a replacement.
Click to expand...

Trav said:
My concern is the buggered teflon seal, are you sure that is not going to be an issue?
Click to expand...

FWIW, I reached out to Sonnax. I’m not concerned...

The PTFE seal on the end of the piston is in fact a guide seal so a small nick will not cause an issue. Can you send us a picture of the damage so we can get a better understanding?
Click to expand...
 
After they put a rebuilt tranny in my 89 Sierra I noticed it down shifting which I didn't notice before. The other thing I found weird was the difference in the way it shifts when it's in OD vs D, it shifts much firmer/harder in D than it does OD. I have about 8k on it now and it is a little smoother in D but not much.
 
JHZR2 said:
Well I’m happy to report that I finally made time (went to pick up lunch briefly), and did the road test.

It shifts perfectly, no issues. At light throttle, barely perceivable shifts. I might argue that they are slightly more firm than they were before, but not in any way that is undesirable. Downshifts back to 2nd/1st are barely perceivable, which I’d argue is a change, as I never noted them before.

Ill also note though that I don’t know what ATF was in there before. Could have been D/M or something else. In went ~9.5qts of ATF+4, so that might be part of it all too.

This power train is very smooth, especially for a 440k mile truck. The engine runs smooth and great, AT shifts nicely, etc. I think the fluid level is right on, because it wasn’t full hot (I could touch the dipstick and fluid), but it read about where @clinebarger indicated it should be from the FSM, shown here:

Chrysler AT Dipstick Crosshatch - Range?

My 47RE is shifting beautifully, but can be a little bit sluggish to start off in the very cold. I know per the FSM and from @clinebarger that the fluid has to be checked fully hot and in neutral. I did it today, and it looks great, but a little low. This was after driving about 25 miles on the...
bobistheoilguy.com

The gearing is:
1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69
Rear Axle: 3.54

Its close enough in 1/2/3, that with light throttle, it almost just keeps the same RPM and accelerates from 0-40 without feeling a thing. I guess it just lets the TC slip enough to do that? It’s always been like that, and very smooth... Of course the OD shift and lockup is a much more noticeable (but still very smooth) pretty significant drop in RPM, and surge of power, so once it’s doing 53 or so, it will eagerly do 73 or more.

Ill have to keep an eye on things... that front band does concern me as it stick has a gap, but the screw is in there deep, and I fear that at some point you just about can’t adjust it any more, and I don’t know what that means when the day comes, besides $$ rebuilds, but it’s driving great now!
Click to expand...


There ya go man !!!!!!!!

That's the ticket... Runs good with no issues is definitely the outcome desired given how much and hard you worked on that trans.
 
What ATF did you end up using with your 47re? I went the lazy route and ordered a remanufactured replacement from reman-transmission, and it's supposed to be going in early next week. Want to make sure I don't have anymore issues out of this trans.
 
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