TBN still holding - 3.5
3mp's 6000 mile AMSOIL test results in
- Thread starter gudmund
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I hope the flashpoint doesn't drop any further.
Patman
Staff member
Here are the main wear numbers:
Aluminum-3
Chromium-1
Iron-13
Copper-65
Lead-7
Tin-2
I'm moving this to the UOA section now
Aluminum-3
Chromium-1
Iron-13
Copper-65
Lead-7
Tin-2
I'm moving this to the UOA section now
Patman
Staff member
By the way, it looks like the 5000 mile lead number was wrong, if you look at the trends so far on this test:
1k lead=2
2k lead=2
3k lead=3
4k lead=6
5k lead=3
6k lead=7
I had thought maybe the 4k lead count spike was incorrect, and when I saw it go to 3 on the 5k sample I figured that was the true number. But now it looks like the 5k sample is most likely showing the wrong lead number. Kind of disappointing really. I figured Amsoil would show around 3ppm of lead in 6k in this test. It's still doing much better than M1 though, just as I predicted:
1k lead=2
2k lead=2
3k lead=3
4k lead=6
5k lead=3
6k lead=7
I had thought maybe the 4k lead count spike was incorrect, and when I saw it go to 3 on the 5k sample I figured that was the true number. But now it looks like the 5k sample is most likely showing the wrong lead number. Kind of disappointing really. I figured Amsoil would show around 3ppm of lead in 6k in this test. It's still doing much better than M1 though, just as I predicted:
What's the link??? I hate searching for it....kinda want to see the charts.
Interesting TBN hold pattern.
Thanks for posting, though.
Interesting TBN hold pattern.
Thanks for posting, though.
I think it is the engine being broken in at the 30,000 mile point. I don't know how we prove this but we do know the copper comes down with GM engines as they break in.
Could be from a few reasons. I think Copper is dropping simply because the engine is older. Thats almost a given. The Iron is higher I think bc of the Boron in Mobil 1. Lead as Tooslick always states, is a viscosity issue so in Patman's credit, a thicker oil does show lower numbers in LS1's. Lead for M1 is among the best, if not the best, so in this case I do think it's a viscosity issue soley.
[ March 30, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Patman
Staff member
It's too bad we probably won't see this test run with M1 0w40 or GC 0w30. I'd love to see how they do in an LS1.
3MP still has a long way to go on the oil they are testing. Then another year testing redline.
Wear rates w/ the Amsoil 5w-30 have been reduced by about 50% across the board, in comparison to Mobil 1, which is an excellent synthetic oil for the price ....I am honestly surprised there is this much of a difference. I expected perhaps 25% to 33% lower valvetrain and bearing wear....
FWIW, my recent oil sample from Blackstone came back with a TBN of 2.9. A second sample sent to CTC and tested using ASTM D-4739 came back with a TBN of 5.3. So the "true" TBN of Amsoil at this point is most likely in the 5.5-6.0 range. Based on my experience with this formulation, this seems perfectly reasonable.
I'd expect similar analysis results with the Amsoil 0w-30, HD 5w-30 or 10w-30 in this application. I don't see any reason to use the new Amsoil 5w-40 in the LS-1, unless it was a very high mileage engine.
Tooslick
FWIW, my recent oil sample from Blackstone came back with a TBN of 2.9. A second sample sent to CTC and tested using ASTM D-4739 came back with a TBN of 5.3. So the "true" TBN of Amsoil at this point is most likely in the 5.5-6.0 range. Based on my experience with this formulation, this seems perfectly reasonable.
I'd expect similar analysis results with the Amsoil 0w-30, HD 5w-30 or 10w-30 in this application. I don't see any reason to use the new Amsoil 5w-40 in the LS-1, unless it was a very high mileage engine.
Tooslick
I agree , this engine is at or very near the sweet spot in it's life .
Something that I don't believe has been brought up is the timeline when the Mobil was used made for the first generation SS being a distinct possibility . I believe it's been reformulated for the better since then and also with the Amsoil in terms of reformulated if you look at the newer VOA's here at BITOG and total amount of zinc/phos used in the formulation now vs oil in this test .
It's a neat test but it takes so long to run it and these oil makers are always tweeking their formulas it seems .
What I'm saying is neither of these oils and their exact formulations are available for use today IMO and will add a FWIW
Also when it's said wear has been reduced by 50% I gotta say no biggie IMO because 50% of 4ppm is what ............... ?
Here is the link from the Neptune site and a graph with reproducibility I thought was worth a looksee for many .
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/margins.html
[ March 31, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]
Anyone know if mpg is also being tracked?
I'd like to see 3MP switch back to the Mobil 1, 5w-30 after this, so we can all watch the wear rates go back up significantly.
I'd also encourage anyone who is considering both these oils - for any high performance application - to run a similar test. Run two batches of Mobil 1 in a row and analyze the second batch. Then do the same thing with the same SAE grade of Amsoil and analyze the second batch.
I'd also encourage anyone who is considering both these oils - for any high performance application - to run a similar test. Run two batches of Mobil 1 in a row and analyze the second batch. Then do the same thing with the same SAE grade of Amsoil and analyze the second batch.
Do you think these results apply to all various engine makes though?
Here is the test I'd like to see. 5 different brands of high performance cars. 3 Vettes haveing Mobil 1, 3 Vettes having Redline, 3 Vettes using Amsoil...same for all 4 other brands..example, maybe a Viper or whatever. I'd like to see hard driven track miles up to 5k miles on each vehicle under the same track conditions. Then I'd take samples of each and do tear downs and that would be a good indication of what oil is holding up better.
Problem here is that we do see LS1's do better on thicker oils. We have an oil with more ZDP and an oil that is in a car that is more broken in. Now it could be that Amsoil is doing better in this engine or is a better oil but we can only assume these things. The test is limited by time and $$ but I'm enjoying the results.
Here is the test I'd like to see. 5 different brands of high performance cars. 3 Vettes haveing Mobil 1, 3 Vettes having Redline, 3 Vettes using Amsoil...same for all 4 other brands..example, maybe a Viper or whatever. I'd like to see hard driven track miles up to 5k miles on each vehicle under the same track conditions. Then I'd take samples of each and do tear downs and that would be a good indication of what oil is holding up better.
Problem here is that we do see LS1's do better on thicker oils. We have an oil with more ZDP and an oil that is in a car that is more broken in. Now it could be that Amsoil is doing better in this engine or is a better oil but we can only assume these things. The test is limited by time and $$ but I'm enjoying the results.
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