300.000 miles: How to prevent excessive oil consumption?

[SubieRubyRoo]

You are the only one to bring this up, so far. At 110,00 miles my car has just started to use some oil, maybe about 6 ounces per 6K OCI. I use mostly Pennzoil Platinum and recently Ultra Platinum when I can mail order for the same price as PP. I'm thinking about moving down to a 5K OCI because I can hear an engine noise level improvement after a 6K OCI .

Can I assume my ring lands are clean? Or should I/we consider using something like the HPL engine cleaner when consumption first starts? PCV has been changed with OEM.

Running an oil with sufficient levels of ester/alkylated naphthalene frequently is one of the few ways to really make sure your ring lands have the best shot at staying clean and free. Mobil used to have a couple oils that had both; I think they’ve reformulates away from that at least on some of their products. HPL is an easy way to ensure you’re getting the right amounts and not scouring PDSs on end with little to no avail.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My 1989 Volvo 740 used .25 qt every 3,000 at 286,000 miles. 3,000 mile conventional oil changes with a Mann W917 filter.

I purchased a 1991 Volvo 240 in November and drove it 1,080 miles from Texas to Connecticut. The engine burned 200 ml of oil in the first 3,000 miles. The two previous owners changed the oil every 3,000 miles with a conventional 10W30 and a Mann W917 filter.

This routine seems to work well with the Volvo 4 cylinder Redblock engine.

That said, I’m switching to HPL so I can extend the drain interval. I’m tired of changing the oil so frequently. I hope this new regime works as well.

Will you be posting internal before/after pics? That would be awesome to see

 

[VolvoZ]

In addition to the above, ensure that your high quality air filter is correctly seated in the air filter box and tightly sealed and inspect th filter regularly. Have seen many air filters that are a) wrong filter (leaving gaps); b) air filter slapped into the box (leaving gaps); c) slapped into the box and the lid not properly clasped, so filter is not clamped down; d) torn intake connections/other leaks after the filter; e) filter damaged (e.g. hole due to rodents) Usually the poorly installed filters were done at a shoddy quick-lube place.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I like these hypothetical questions. However, the elephant in the room is,
who wants to drive a 20 year old vehicle because that’s how long it will take most people to rack up 300,000 miles. There is a gauntlet of traffic accidents, car thieves and rust to get by, and that’s if no one steals your cat and the insurance company writes it off. If you bought the vehicle today, you would still be driving it in 2043, a time when some jurisdictions say you cannot even buy a new ICE vehicle.

 

[doublebase]

I think it really depends on the engine more than anything else (within reason). I don’t think there’s any engine oil, interval, driving tendency, that can overcome a design flaw. But can a good engine do better with better oil and shorter intervals? I think so.

But I still don’t think you’re going to find a car/engine nowadays with direct injection, that will go 300,000 miles without experience some sort of increase in oil consumption. Just my opinion, and experience.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Will you be posting internal before/after pics? That would be awesome to see

I plan to.

Picture on the left is the ‘91 240 that saw conventional oil for 220,000 miles. On the right is my ‘93 240 which has seen mostly Delo 5W40. 227,000 miles.

I don’t think there is much to clean in the ’93. We’ll find out.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Running an oil with sufficient levels of ester/alkylated naphthalene frequently is one of the few ways to really make sure your ring lands have the best shot at staying clean and free. Mobil used to have a couple oils that had both; I think they’ve reformulates away from that at least on some of their products. HPL is an easy way to ensure you’re getting the right amounts and not scouring PDSs on end with little to no avail.

So run something like the EC30 from @High Performance Lubricants or Redline Oil occasionally to keep it clean???

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

So run something like the EC30 from @High Performance Lubricants or Redline Oil occasionally to keep it clean???

I chose to run full HPL PCMO. I’m about 4k into my first OCI on my ‘19 F150 (58k); will do a filter change with oil top-up and OA (without drain) at 5k to see where the oil itself is at viscosity & TBN wise; I’ll take it from there with the results and input from David.

I swapped out Amsoil SS 5w20 for HPL PCMO 5w20 in my mom’s ‘18 Forester (70k) and will do a 1yr OCI (~9-10k) as that engine looked great at 6k OCI on PP 5w20.

My ‘20 Transit Connect 2.0 will go HPL PCMO 5w20 (34k currently) in spring. All have older Fram Ultras for filtration.

The F150 will be changed as OA alone dictates for oil serviceability; the others will simply be annual regardless of mileage but will occasionally have an OA done. So, just like other things I’ve been passionate about here on the board (occasionally too strenuously), not only do I do my research but I also spend my money to verify things myself

 

[Cujet]

None of my engines has ever consumed oil. Although the highest miles was 355K, the others are around or over 200K.

I tend to do frequent oil changes, I live in S FL, and step up a grade or two in viscosity. My Fords call for 5W-20 and I use M1 10W-30EP or in the 5.4L, 10W-40HM.

 

[doitmyself]

I chose to run full HPL PCMO. I’m about 4k into my first OCI on my ‘19 F150 (58k); will do a filter change with oil top-up and OA (without drain) at 5k to see where the oil itself is at viscosity & TBN wise; I’ll take it from there with the results and input from David.

Correct me if wrong. Did I read here at BITOG that the HPL engine oil cleans more/better/faster than the HPL Cleaner added to other oil?

 

[loneryder]

Hi,

It is generally considered that a car engine over time will have an increasing oil consumption. And for many cars I learned that once they pass the 300000 mi mark, a "normal" oil consumption is something like 2 gallons for every 6000 miles meaning people are driving around with oil jugs in the trunk all the time. I cannot accept that.

Is there a way to reduce the oil consumption to a minimum if the car is to pass the 300000 miles mark?

Let's assume:

I buy a car with zero miles on the clock. I want to drive it past 300000 miles. The manufacturer suggests an oil change every 6000 miles or every year depending on which comes first. In between every oil change I don't want to replenish at all. This means something like having a max oil consumption of 0,05 liter pr 1000 km ... in US i guess this is close to 2 ounces pr 600 miles. And I want this all the way up to 300000 miles in total.

What should be done to achieve this?

Special oil
Special additives
More frequent oil changes than every 6000 miles
Anything else

... or it cannot be achieved - any engine WILL wear and result in excessive oil consumption no matter how well it was treated.


Thanks, Lucas

My daughter has a 99 Mercedes ML 3.2 V6 that’s approaching 275k. It’s using almost a qt in 1500 mi. She is the 2nd owner. Bought it with 160k on it. The orig owner used the 10k oci*s and mostly Mobil 1 0-40 used by the Indy shop. She has continued the 0-40 at 5-8k intervals. Engine is strong and smooth.

 

[VolvoZ]

I like these hypothetical questions. However, the elephant in the room is,
who wants to drive a 20 year old vehicle because that’s how long it will take most people to rack up 300,000 miles. There is a gauntlet of traffic accidents, car thieves and rust to get by, and that’s if no one steals your cat and the insurance company writes it off. If you bought the vehicle today, you would still be driving it in 2043, a time when some jurisdictions say you cannot even buy a new ICE vehicle.

Answer: me...and many others who like to get their moneys worth out of a well designed, well maintained vehicle. While the rust beneath my Honda is likely going to be the deciding factor for end of life decision in a few years, the mid-2000 Volvo’s in our fleet are running strong, drive solid, and have either no rust at all or are just barely starting to rust in spots. Granted, our vehicles are not 20 years old yet, so I’ll get back to you in about 3 years to let you know.

 

[Chris142]

A good air filter. The old shop truck we had at my last job is well over 460k now. The oil is still in the safe area on the stick @6000 miles on the oil.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Correct me if wrong. Did I read here at BITOG that the HPL engine oil cleans more/better/faster than the HPL Cleaner added to other oil?

That’s correct. The EC is a gentle rinse to make sure no big chunks break loose when the straight engine oil is introduced.

 

[Donald]

You would need to figure out what is causing the oil consumption. Worn compression rings, gunked up oil control ring, loose bearings spraying too much oil onto the cylinder wall.

The oil control rings could be cleaned and reinstalled. But if you have the heads off and pistons pulled you minds well do more than just clean the oil control rings.

 

[Leo99]

At least in the 80s and 90s many European car manufacturers stated that burning 1 liter pr 1000km is still OK. I don't know what they state for modern cars except they allow something like 30000 km oil change intervals - which sounds crazy to me. Anyhow, there are 4 quarts to a gallon and 1 gallon is 3,78 liter: So after 3780 km the car is allowed to consume 1 gallon and after 2x3780km=7560km it is allowed to consume 2 gallons. 7560 km is "only" 4725 miles. So I was optimistic with my previous post :-D.

In European car forums I read about frustrated people going to the workshop with excessive oil consumption and the workshop will do nothing since it's still within spec (1 liter/1000km).

Your math is impeccable. That's a lot of oil to go through.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

None of my engines has ever consumed oil. Although the highest miles was 355K, the others are around or over 200K.

I tend to do frequent oil changes, I live in S FL, and step up a grade or two in viscosity. My Fords call for 5W-20 and I use M1 10W-30EP or in the 5.4L, 10W-40HM.

Sensible advice to protect the timing chains, phasers, and other delicate internals.

 

[gregk24]

More frequent oil changes with QUALITY oil / filter, quality air filter changed at the appropriate intervals, top tier fuel, and not running the engine hard before full warm up is what comes to mind.

 

[Shel_B]

I’ve never had a car that used oil. Took an 87 Olds to 350,000+ miles and never used oil. GM 3800 Series 1.

The 3800 was a great engine, very well-regarded, and quite capable of a long life. Apart from maintenance and proper care of the engine and vehicle, starting with a well-designed and constructed engine should be a consideration. And since it's a rare engine that has no weak or possible failure points, it pays to be aware of them and their condition as the engine ages and accumulates miles.

Be sure to use a top-quality oil, something better than one that just meets the specs, and change it at least according to severe service intervals. Good filters changed at appropriate intervals is another part of the plan for longevity. Top Tier gas might be a worthwhile consideration.

 

[DemoFly]

All engines consume oil. There's no such thing as a perfect ring seal.

If it consumes an amount so small that it's not easily measurable, that's great! But it's still consuming.