30-06 ammo question

[oil pan 4]

Buy a bunch of ammo and see what shoots the best.

 

[Chevelle3221]

Buy a bunch of ammo and see what shoots the best.

Are you providing the ammo to play with? LOL

 

[Chevelle3221]

Got what I need. Thanks!

 

[oil pan 4]

Are you providing the ammo to play with? LOL

It's not playing it's testing.
With ammo the gun likes it should be able to do holes touching at 100yd all day.

 

[ripcord]

It's not playing it's testing.
With ammo the gun likes it should be able to do holes touching at 100yd all day.

In my experience, there are few off the shelf rifles that can achieve this degree of accuracy. Regardless, this level of mechanical accuracy is rarely needed in a hunting rifle, especially in New England where thick woods limits shots to much, much shorter ranges than out West.

 

[oil pan 4]

In my experience, there are few off the shelf rifles that can achieve this degree of accuracy. Regardless, this level of mechanical accuracy is rarely needed in a hunting rifle, especially in New England where thick woods limits shots to much, much shorter ranges than out West.

Yeah 7.62x39 with hunting ammo is plenty for little east coast deer at east coast range.

 

[jeremy2171]

As long as it's a bolt, use whatever you like. I would go 150 for deer, as others have said.

For a Garand, however, you need to watch the pressure. So much internet hogwash around. No, you won't "bend the op rod" because it already has a couple bens in it, but yes, you do need to watch the pressure, or the bolt hits the heel of the receiver too hard. Enough of that, and you crack the receiver.

Then you might as well sell the rest of it for parts.

So, if you got a Garand, stick with 150 grain. Or get an adjustable gas plug and dial back the pressure on the operating system.

The garand was designed for 174grn fmj at 2700 fps.

It's not as fragile as the internet leads you to believe.

 

[Astro14]

The garand was designed for 174grn fmj at 2700 fps.

It's not as fragile as the internet leads you to believe.

Where did you get the idea that I have learned about Garands from the internet?

I own several. Built a couple from the receiver up, including one at the CMP. Talked with the armorers during my 4 days down in Anniston.

And have several books on the rifle.

It’s not bullet weight that matters, as much as pressure in the system, and my advice is conservative because the rifles are antiques, and collector’s items. The US Army didn’t care about a few cracked receivers, when they had over a million in service, and millions more under contract.

And they did crack a few, back in the early days, before M2 ball was adopted, which is why you see so many lead-dipped receiver heels from around the 1 million mark.

But while the Army didn’t care, with bare receivers getting over $800 each these days, the modern collector would care if it were their one receiver that was cracked from excess bolt speed due to excess pressure. An expensive, and completely avoidable, event.

I never said the rifle was fragile - I recommended a load that I know will be within the pressure limits.

 

[4WD]

The garand was designed for 174grn fmj at 2700 fps.

It's not as fragile as the internet leads you to believe.

Welcome

 

[jeremy2171]

Where did you get the idea that I have learned about Garands from the internet?

I own several. Built a couple from the receiver up, including one at the CMP. Talked with the armorers during my 4 days down in Anniston.

And have several books on the rifle.

It’s not bullet weight that matters, as much as pressure in the system, and my advice is conservative because the rifles are antiques, and collector’s items. The US Army didn’t care about a few cracked receivers, when they had over a million in service, and millions more under contract.

And they did crack a few, back in the early days, before M2 ball was adopted, which is why you see so many lead-dipped receiver heels from around the 1 million mark.

But while the Army didn’t care, with bare receivers getting over $800 each these days, the modern collector would care if it were their one receiver that was cracked from excess bolt speed due to excess pressure. An expensive, and completely avoidable, event.

I never said the rifle was fragile - I recommended a load that I know will be within the pressure limits.

The receivers cracked because they were thinner at the rear due to modifications and using a harder steel that caused them to be brittle.

The lead dip was for the early harder receivers.

Once the steel changed they stopped dipping them.

Pressure in the system isn't really the main issue since it's a very lossy gas system and it's at the end of the barrel.

The real areas for concern are properly lubricating it and keeping the oprod spring at least 19.5" long.


There is no bullet weight restriction and if your rifle is in good shape you can shoot any SAAMI spec in it with no worries.

 

[jeremy2171]

Welcome

Ty sir

 

[Astro14]

The receivers cracked because they were thinner at the rear due to modifications and using a harder steel that caused them to be brittle.

The lead dip was for the early harder receivers.

Once the steel changed they stopped dipping them.

Pressure in the system isn't really the main issue since it's a very lossy gas system and it's at the end of the barrel.

The real areas for concern are properly lubricating it and keeping the oprod spring at least 19.5" long.


There is no bullet weight restriction and if your rifle is in good shape you can shoot any SAAMI spec in it with no worries.

We should probably start a separate thread on this topic, as the OP was looking for a very inexpensive rifle, and put a very inexpensive scope on it, and you and I are going down the Garand rabbit hole, which I find fascinating, but which the rest of the folks on this thread might not…

 

[Astro14]

Since this question is for a Savage, used at relatively short range, for deer, bullet weight doesn’t matter much.

Ammo quality and bullet design matters.

Trying out several brands/types to see what performs best, would be prudent, but the OP has said they won’t do that.

 

[demarpaint]

There is no bullet weight restriction and if your rifle is in good shape you can shoot any SAAMI spec in it with no worries.

I never heard that before regarding the Garand. I'd be worried about loading a 240 grain SMK bullet for use in mine.

 

[jeremy2171]

I never heard that before regarding the Garand. I'd be worried about loading a 240 grain SMK bullet for use in mine.

Zero reason to worry.

Lube it correctly keep your spring in good shape.

 

[demarpaint]

Zero reason to worry.

Lube it correctly keep your spring in good shape.

Interesting, how about the twist of the barrel for something that heavy?

 

[jeremy2171]

Interesting, how about the twist of the barrel for something that heavy?

The USGI barrel has a 1-10 twist that dates back to when the 220gr bullet was in use.

It works fine with 220s and 125s.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Where did you get the idea that I have learned about Garands from the internet?

I own several. Built a couple from the receiver up, including one at the CMP. Talked with the armorers during my 4 days down in Anniston.

And have several books on the rifle.

It’s not bullet weight that matters, as much as pressure in the system, and my advice is conservative because the rifles are antiques, and collector’s items. The US Army didn’t care about a few cracked receivers, when they had over a million in service, and millions more under contract.

And they did crack a few, back in the early days, before M2 ball was adopted, which is why you see so many lead-dipped receiver heels from around the 1 million mark.

But while the Army didn’t care, with bare receivers getting over $800 each these days, the modern collector would care if it were their one receiver that was cracked from excess bolt speed due to excess pressure. An expensive, and completely avoidable, event.

I never said the rifle was fragile - I recommended a load that I know will be within the pressure limits.

It’s not so much the pressure but the slide velocity. Slower burning propellants used in cartridges intended for heavier bullets increase the time and area under the pressure curve which imparts a higher velocity to the slide. The constant battering of the slide will eventually distort the slide (bending, sort of…) causing bolt locking and binding.

Hornady, Prvi Prtisan, and BlackHills load Garand safe factory ammo.
Reloaders can duplicate original milspec ammo using powders approximating the burn rate of original powders and avoid problems.
Another more important consideration is PRIMERS!
High primers or overly sensitive (ie: Federal especially) can and will cause a slam fire out of battery.
Never, Never EVER drop the slide on a chambered round, or a loose lying round. Always use a clip, either a single shot adapter, or 2,5, or 8 shot.
Don’t ask me how I know!
A busted stock and chipped reciever at the bolt lug recess is all I suffered…

I own two Garands and have shot CMP competition. Also attended the armorers school. My older brother shot NRA. Competition back in the ‘80’s and I inherited his match rifle when he passed away.
My preferred load is a Speer 168gr HPBT match bullet over 46.0gr of either H4895 or Shooters World Precision Rifle. CCI primer in match prepped brass.
My CMP “special” with a Criterion barrel in a replacement Boyd’s stock will come ver close to the full blown match rifle. It’ll hold the 10ring at 600yds. With match ammo.
If only I could!

 

[userfriendly]

It’s not so much the pressure but the slide velocity. Slower burning propellants used in cartridges intended for heavier bullets increase the time and area under the pressure curve which imparts a higher velocity to the slide. The constant battering of the slide will eventually distort the slide (bending, sort of…) causing bolt locking and binding.

Hornady, Prvi Prtisan, and BlackHills load Garand safe factory ammo.
Reloaders can duplicate original milspec ammo using powders approximating the burn rate of original powders and avoid problems.
Another more important consideration is PRIMERS!
High primers or overly sensitive (ie: Federal especially) can and will cause a slam fire out of battery.
Never, Never EVER drop the slide on a chambered round, or a loose lying round. Always use a clip, either a single shot adapter, or 2,5, or 8 shot.
Don’t ask me how I know!
A busted stock and chipped reciever at the bolt lug recess is all I suffered…

I own two Garands and have shot CMP competition. Also attended the armorers school. My older brother shot NRA. Competition back in the ‘80’s and I inherited his match rifle when he passed away.
My preferred load is a Speer 168gr HPBT match bullet over 46.0gr of either H4895 or Shooters World Precision Rifle. CCI primer in match prepped brass.
My CMP “special” with a Criterion barrel in a replacement Boyd’s stock will come ver close to the full blown match rifle. It’ll hold the 10ring at 600yds. With match ammo.
If only I could!

Good advice on not dropping the slide on a chambered round.
In your opinion, are civilian FNs ie Browning BARs more idiot proof than military rifles?

 

[jeremy2171]

It’s not so much the pressure but the slide velocity. Slower burning propellants used in cartridges intended for heavier bullets increase the time and area under the pressure curve which imparts a higher velocity to the slide. The constant battering of the slide will eventually distort the slide (bending, sort of…) causing bolt locking and binding.

Its not a slide..its an oprod. An improperly lubricated oprod and improper disassembly do more damage than the ammo to the oprod. It's actually the opposite...lighter bullets increase the energy under the curve.