25W70 in the USA?

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vintageant

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25W70 is readily available in Australia, yet not in the USA.
Yes, we can buy Penrite HPR40 a 25W70 oil for $50 for 5 liters (1.3 US galls), but is there anything more affordable?
 
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Originally Posted By: Loobed


What is the purpose of using such a think oil in the US?

Unless your bearing clearance can be measured with a tape measure, I doubt an engine needs 25w-70 oil.



This maybe a fact because he has a 1925 Alvis. Any thing that is heavier than a 20W-50 will be hard to find.
 
That being the case, simply use the cheapest dino 20W-50 you can find and add a bottle or two of STP (or similar polymer based product) that will bring up the oil pressure to what you want.
 
I believe there is also a Valvoline VR60 oil available at some AutoZones. I can't remember if it's a straight 60 or multiviscosity oil. Good luck!
 
Originally Posted By: Loobed


What is the purpose of using such a think oil in the US?



I wish I could find think oil. I could pour it on people's heads and maybe their brain would function more smoothly!
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John
 
What did these engines use when current?
There was no such thing as 25W-70 at the time.
As long as the bearing clearances remain reasonable, they should do okay on whatever straight weight was originally used.
OT, these Alvis engines are inline sixes, aren't they?
 
Thanks all!

What's the purpose of using such a thick oil in the US? Could just as well ask what's the purpose in Australia, but they do use it, and it's recommended for older applications, such as mine.

See the Penrite site for specs:

http://www.restorationstuff.com/Products/Penrite USA Online Brochure.pdf

Dino oil is what I'm looking for, and 20W50 does seem to be the heaviest readily available.
 
I think he can use a 15w40 HDEO and would be fine or like fdcg27 said a straight weight would fine also. There is something like 86 years of oil engineering to help this motor out.
 
In the very early days of motoring you were advised what color oil to buy and could test the pouring speed with a test funnel. In those early days cars were so good they could go a hundred miles or more before the oil needed attention again. You might check the color (remember, non-detergent oil) and recheck the pouring speed to see if you could go another hundred miles before changing the oil. This was not a problem because you might be oiling the rocker arms and lubricating the suspension anyhow. The next check would be the cylinder heads. You could get as far as 500 miles before you removed the heads to scrape the carbon off. In between you had to re-air the tires. At first they did not hold air over night and as they got better they would hold air for several days at a time. Getting back to engine oil, the average viscosity of engine oil in the very early days was 50W. In cold weather you would put light gasoline (gas was sold by color and specific gravity as well as brand name, many times in cans) in the crankcase before pulling the crank handle. An automobile driver in those days would better be titled an operating engineer.
 
In the very early days of motoring you were advised what color oil to buy and could test the pouring speed with a test funnel. In those early days cars were so good they could go a hundred miles or more before the oil needed attention again. You might check the color (remember, non-detergent oil) and recheck the pouring speed to see if you could go another hundred miles before changing the oil. This was not a problem because you might be oiling the rocker arms and lubricating the suspension anyhow. The next check would be the cylinder heads. You could get as far as 500 miles before you removed the heads to scrape the carbon off. In between you had to re-air the tires. At first they did not hold air over night and as they got better they would hold air for several days at a time. Getting back to engine oil, the average viscosity of engine oil in the very early days was 50W. In cold weather you would put light gasoline (gas was sold by color and specific gravity as well as brand name, many times in cans) in the crankcase before pulling the crank handle. An automobile driver in those days would better be titled an operating engineer.
 
We're talking an inline engine, babbit metal bearings, side valve. Unless your Alvis is radically different than other cars of that vintage, a 15W40 HDEO should work just fine.

If you're dealing with an overly worn engine that can't maintain good pressure on a 40, then it's time for new bearings...find a good antique engine shop that can pour babbit metal (machine shops are often able to do this, lots of machines used babbit bearings until 30-40 years ago, babbit bearing are more tolerant of dirt and debris than metal shell bearings as the lead tends to imbed the particles...)

The charts from that era recommended oil weights based on temp. for example, looking at my 1934 Veedol Lubrication Guide ("ask the man at the pump!" it says...), for nearly every '34, including everything from Auburn to Duesenberg, Packard, and Rolls Royce, and earlier car, it recommends:

Summer: M or MH (M is 30, MH is 40)
Winter 10 - 32 (F): M or WM (M is 30, WM is 20)
Winter below 10 (F): WM only (WM is 20)

But only trucks, motor coaches, and some boat engines called for H (50) or XH (also 50...) or XXH (60).

None of them called for the Veedol XXX (70)...

Now, the chart states: "While the use of heavy grades of motor oil is quite in order in the summer time to prevent excessive oil consumption where cars are operated at high speed consistently, the use of such grades for ordinary conditions will only result in greater gasoline consumption and greater accumulation of carbon in the combustion chamber"...

So, even back then, 40 was good enough for summer and high speeds...and I don't know about you, but I don't operate my '32 vintage Packard at consistently high speed in the summer.

Believe me, if the engineers and manufacturers had multigrades available in 1934, they would have used them! Like one-eyed jack says, the recommended change interval was 500 winter, 1000 summer...with decarbonizing the cylinder head every 1-2000 miles...

I would go 15W40 HDEO in your car...unless you're vintage racing it...or the bearings are shot...the 25W70 is just too thick for the old girl...
 
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Redline makes a 70WT for nitro drag racing.
Synergyn makes a 70-wt racing oil.
Torco makes a 25w-60 racing oil.
Kendall makes a 70-wt oil for nitro and alcohol racing.

These oils are all formulated to combat extreme fuel dilution, then to be dumped after every 4 minutes of running. And they're all more expensive than the Penrite HPR40. At $10 per liter, the Penrite sounds like a good deal.

If your oil pressure with Rotella 15w40 is marginal, I suggest to increase one grade to 15w50 or 20w50. Jumping from 40 to 70 at once sounds like an extreme move to me. Valvoline VR1 racing 20w50 is available at many AZ's and AAP's for about $4.50 per quart.
 
I'd agree. Next step would be a 50, such as M1 15W-50. Beyond that, someone (don't remember who) makes a 10W-60 if you need to go even thicker.
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
25W70 is readily available in Australia, yet not in the USA.
Yes, we can buy Penrite HPR40 a 25W70 oil for $50 for 5 liters (1.3 US galls), but is there anything more affordable?

Supply and demand my friend
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I'd agree. Next step would be a 50, such as M1 15W-50. Beyond that, someone (don't remember who) makes a 10W-60 if you need to go even thicker.
BMW specs 10w60 for something, can't remember what. A dealer might have it. Don't forget to Bring Money Withya.
 
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