$25,000 vs. $25,000,000 per year

[alarmguy]

There is definite social stigma around trades, part of which is taught by their parents, and also in part by society. Few people, especially city people want to be a plumber or a mechanic, those jobs are simply looked down upon by society in general. Even here on BITOG right now we have threads about mechanics being thieves and things of that nature. Most people want tech jobs or their parents want them to be a doctor or lawyer or whatever, but this is nothing new either and hasn't changed in decades (aside from tech jobs).

It was far, far easier to get a job out of high school as a cop/firefighter/office worker/maintenance crew with the city etc etc 40-50 years ago compared to now. Not even close.

Stop blaming the kids. Where I live, the house I grew up in was 84k when my parents bought it new in 1978. Today the same house is worth about 2 million dollars. That's just one example, life is exponentially more expensive now than it was.

Life in the USA has never been more easy
I don’t know about you, but when I was young with very young children, I couldn’t sell the house that I purchased for the double price in five years
Recently three Not one not two but three nieces and nephews of mine who purchased homes in the last eight years with young children right now have double their money and each home has sold over $1 million

If you’re not cutting it, you’re doing something wrong and move someplace where you can do it

Unbelievable the amount of excuses I’m reading in this forum when exactly the same amount of people who were purchasing homes 10 20, 30, 40 and 50 years ago still buying them today with 10 times the amount of luxuries that existed back then.

Sorry, but the US Constitution protects your individual liberty not the right to buy a house without earning it. So get to work. and to what needs to be done

 

[alarmguy]

Each generation has more creature comforts than the last. It's technological process and a part of the civilized world.

Exactly and if you don’t earn it, you don’t get those luxuries

 

[alarmguy]

But this is the way of the world. It is not specific to one generation or another. At one point in time, AC, indoor toilets, and refrigerators were luxury items and now new homes in the US won’t even pass inspection to be inhabited by code without these items. Folks acting like younger generations are being ridiculous by expecting air-conditioning, smart phones, and internet is utterly ridiculous. It’s the new standard. Who cares if previous gens did not have it. It is a stupid soapbox to stand on IMO.

I don’t think younger generations are being ridiculous, younger generations are buying more homes than they ever have. It’s just the whiners that can’t cut it complain.

You’re not entitled to a home you are entitled to your individual liberty to make whatever you want out of your life and it’s not my responsibility to support you.

Any high school graduate in the United States of America can make a decent living with any number of trades and completely brainless is simply move to an automobile or airplane or any number of industry producing areas and get a job on assembly line where you will make enough money to purchase your own home raise a family and your spouse will not even have to work

Good God, everyone, not directed at you and just discussing.

 

[ATex7239]

I don’t think younger generations are being ridiculous, younger generations are buying more homes than they ever have. It’s just the whiners can’t cut it complain.
You’re not entitled to a home you are entitled to your individual liberty to make whatever you want out of your life and it’s not my responsibility to support you

Who suggested that owning a home was a right? And when did anyone suggest that you should support them? You’re adding those connotations yourself.

Also, what you’re doing can be considered whining. Someone could say you have the freedom to just move instead of getting in the mix and let everyone know how you feel about everything. Complaining for me but none for thee.

 

[Mechanician]

But this is the way of the world. It is not specific to one generation or another. At one point in time, AC, indoor toilets, and refrigerators were luxury items and now new homes in the US won’t even pass inspection to be inhabited by code without these items. Folks acting like younger generations are being ridiculous by expecting air-conditioning, smart phones, and internet is utterly ridiculous. It’s the new standard. Who cares if previous gens did not have it. It is a stupid soapbox to stand on IMO.

The actual thought is that "getting by" is not the same as it used to be.
What were once thought of as luxuries are now considered needs.
Not a soap box by any stretch, just an observation. Get over it.

 

[Pablo]

Life in the USA has never been more easy
I don’t know about you, but when I was young with very young children, I couldn’t sell the house that I purchased for the double price in five years
Recently three Not one not two but three nieces and nephews of mine who purchased homes in the last eight years with young children right now have double their money and each home has sold over $1 million

If you’re not cutting it, you’re doing something wrong and move someplace where you can do it

Unbelievable the amount of excuses I’m reading in this forum when exactly the same amount of people who were purchasing homes 10 20, 30, 40 and 50 years ago still buying them today with 10 times the amount of luxuries that existed back then.

Sorry, but the US Constitution protects your individual liberty not the right to buy a house without earning it. So get to work. and to what needs to be done

This. The first half or more of my working career it was a) very tough to find jobs b) constant lay-offs across the working world. I was laid off twice when we had kids - both corp buy out BS - supposedly "had their own management team". Both companies had further layoffs (better bottom line!!) until some larger (sucker) company came along...............point being there was zero security, high stress.

He's not whining just throwing a historical perspective in.

If you want to work, you can now. Has not always been the case.

 

[ATex7239]

Get over it.

This is probably the best thing that has been said on this thread yet. Everyone could use a dose of it.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

This is probably the best thing that has been said on this thread yet. Everyone could use a dose of it.

I own my house outright and have for about four years. I'm 43. I don't really need to get over anything since I have benefited greatly from home ownership. I was lucky in that I was able to get in before things went skyward. It was simply timing and not because I work harder (even though I do) than a bunch of other people. As someone said earlier there is also luck and catching a break involved in this. For example I was able to find a great woman who actually wanted to spend her life with me, and who also makes pretty good money. Many people are not so fortunate.

At the same time I do realize that society is better off when everyone succeeds. It is not better off when there are haves and have-nots, or a large divide between rich and poor. There are many countries in the world where this is the case and I would say the standard of living for the general population is much worse than in North America. It definitely feels like the divide between haves and have-nots is growing at a pretty substantial rate.

 

[IndyIan]

Nope, that is simply not true. Trades are the proof of that.
But instead, young people were led to believe that an office job is the pinnacle of one’s social status and that the “dirty” jobs are better left to immigrants, illegal immigrants at that, and we have a bunch of useless degree holders crying they cannot find a well paying job.

One thing they all have in common, it’s never their fault.

Typically kids in elementary and high school, don't get any input on the laws and regulations that help determine the employment conditions they are about to enter into...
It would would be interesting if they could, as it probably wouldn't favor the companies and industries with all the lobbyists, and interest in maintaining the status quo, or favoring those with the capital even more... Maybe something like the Buffet Rule would pass?

What we've got now isn't terrible but more people are homeless everyday, and there's less government assistance available everyday, so before we get to real class warfare, it would probably be good to help those at the bottom up a bit.... It's cheaper in the long run anyways and you have less chance of getting shot, or needing to live in a gated community....

 

[Oillover]

Don't worry they will...no need to let them know they are allowed

Just my way of showing respect to those who keep this forum running smoothly.

 

[Dave Hess]

Sorry but worked for a United Association service fitter. Worked 50-60 hour weeks, few 60+. Went to school every winter for certifications in welding, med gas, backflow, plumbing, rigging p, blueprint, osha 10 & 40. Plus all the factory schools Trane , Carrier, York and burner schools. Just to make me more valuable to my union and contractor.
Saving very easy IF you pay yourself first don' t care if it's $10 a check. Take a second job work for a few hours if overtime isn't a option.
Can't remember exactly but early 2000 every one started refinancing homes not once but twice. Living beyond their means till the market crashed.

If you had to go back in time would you go into this career as a service fitter ?

I’m sure you got a nice pension at retirement.

 

[fdcg27]

At the same time I do realize that society is better off when everyone succeeds. It is not better off when there are haves and have-nots, or a large divide between rich and poor. There are many countries in the world where this is the case and I would say the standard of living for the general population is much worse than in North America. It definitely feels like the divide between haves and have-nots is growing at a pretty substantial rate.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.
It benefits none of us to have a large underclass. That only breeds resentment and future unrest.
The divide between the haves and the have-nots is growing and banging on about life never being easier in this country reflects an ignorance of the realities of our current workforce. Being comfortably retired is great, but those trying to get there now find substantial obstacles in their paths.
I am grateful for what we have and while we did work hard for it we also benefited from a number of things that worked in our favor along the way. Things that could just as easily have resulted in my wife and I having struggled through all these years despite having worked hard and trying to do the right thing and that is true for all of us.
We all have less control over our fortunes in life than some of us seem to think. Good fortune and ill fortune both play a significant role, so to say that one has done well because one is more astute and has worked harder than those who don't is no more than hubris.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Nah, I’m having a hard time believing this. If one is putting a ton of hours (that would mean 60+, not just 40) at work and is still broke, the problem is likely not with their income but spending habits.

Spending habits due to the cost of living. Ever try raising a family in California?

 

[KrisZ]

Spending habits due to the cost of living. Ever try raising a family in California?

Sure did, I have four kids and lived there for few years. We managed just fine.

I moved there first and rented a room with a shared bathroom and no kitchen because I refused to pay the super high rent for a normal apartment. Despite no kitchen I managed to cook for myself and only ate out once a week.

Then I bought a house an hour away (with 0 traffic) from work, because I couldn’t afford anything closer without seriously sacrificing on size.
My commute was at least 1.5 hours each way, oftentimes going on 2 hours. And that was with me starting the commute at 4:30 am. I worked 60 hour weeks, oftentimes going on 80, but those were weekends so at least the commute was shorter.
I sacrificed serious family time, but in the end it did work out in my and my family’s favor.

Would it be easier had I started in another state? Probably, but other states don’t offer the same job opportunities like California does. So you have to take the bad with the good and decide for yourself what are your long term goals.

 

[alarmguy]

I agree with you except that I do believe that CEO types....are overpaid which drives costs up for everybody.

A few years ago I read that the average person on "the Board of Directors" of large companies are paid an average of $250K (and I'm sure it's more than $250K per Board now) for attending about 4 (often ZOOM) meetings a year. Many of these people sit on several 'Boards' and are often pocketing over a million dollars a year above and beyond their 'regular' gig.

I also read that in the 1950s the average CEO made X times more than the average employee....and now makes 10X to 100X times more
than the average employee. This leads to 'wealth inequality' which of course leads to ENVY...which of course leads to the type of people being elected to public office now (pushing 'socialist policies based on entitlement) all the while being in bed with those rich elitists.

The sad part is that these 'divide and conquer' tactics used by our pols are usually pitting the poor against the working class while giving the uber wealthy elites a pass because that's who fund their campaigns.

It's a free country, we are a free people, we do not need a dictator to determine what income people should make.
The shareholders of the company determine who the board is and CEO by vote

 

[alarmguy]

At the same time I do realize that society is better off when everyone succeeds. It is not better off when there are haves and have-nots, or a large divide between rich and poor. There are many countries in the world where this is the case and I would say the standard of living for the general population is much worse than in North America. It definitely feels like the divide between haves and have-nots is growing at a pretty substantial rate.

Your bowing to social media and why you feel a divide exists, life has never been more easy and just as many people live and buy homes as they did 10,20,30,40,50,60 years ago. I mean these are just the facts and its SCARY that people do not acknowledge the facts.
In addition everyone gets at least emergency health care, FREE food debit cards, free cell phones, almost or free internet access, free medicare/medcaid ... and did I mention? The same amount of people buy homes every year for the last 60 years and they are loaded with luxuries like never before.

There is no such thing as a country where everyone succeeds. The individual drive decides that. There is no utopia in the animal kingdom, this is the best it gets.
This country will fall one day, outside forces and social media may see to it. The day the masses believe the promise that everyone gets an equal share, without fail, every time in history, takes down the country. Just look at recent examples in South America, heck look at Cuba still in poverty since kicking us out, why to you think ALL people want to come here?

I find it scary at the appeasement in social media, even this forum. You want to be free, then be an individual, stand up for yourself and get to work. You want to be part of "the state" then try living in China as the perfect example. But even there, if you dont work, you will be far worse off.

 

[KrisZ]

We have equality of opportunity not equality of outcome, the rest is up to you.
There are a lot of countries that don't have that. People don't even realize that just being born in US puts them in the top 1% of world's population in terms of access to wealth and opportunity. How much more of a break do some of you want?

 

[Fitter30]

If you had to go back in time would you go into this career as a service fitter ?

I’m sure you got a nice pension at retirement.

Yes and yes. Wanted to be a auto mechanic. Father and older brother ran service talked me into it. Worked for a small contractor of just 10 pipefitters was hired to save money on start up and warranty work. 4 years later owner bought a tin shop, 20 years his son bought a control outfit, 21years plumbing company, 3 rd generation bought commercial refrigeration. Lasted 40 years 46 servicefitters. From day one a truck, tools and uniforms.

 

[Dave Hess]

We have equality of opportunity not equality of outcome, the rest is up to you.
There are a lot of countries that don't have that. People don't even realize that just being born in US puts them in the top 1% of world's population in terms of access to wealth and opportunity. How much more of a break do some of you want?

Yes, being born in the USA is great benefit in your life.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Sure did, I have four kids and lived there for few years. We managed just fine.

I moved there first and rented a room with a shared bathroom and no kitchen because I refused to pay the super high rent for a normal apartment. Despite no kitchen I managed to cook for myself and only ate out once a week.

Then I bought a house an hour away (with 0 traffic) from work, because I couldn’t afford anything closer without seriously sacrificing on size.
My commute was at least 1.5 hours each way, oftentimes going on 2 hours. And that was with me starting the commute at 4:30 am. I worked 60 hour weeks, oftentimes going on 80, but those were weekends so at least the commute was shorter.
I sacrificed serious family time, but in the end it did work out in my and my family’s favor.

Would it be easier had I started in another state? Probably, but other states don’t offer the same job opportunities like California does. So you have to take the bad with the good and decide for yourself what are your long term goals.

Thanks for proving my point. You should not have to spend 100hrs a week working. We also raised 4 kids and it's ridiculous in California. Opportunity for few at the expense of the majority. All our kids are grown and it would have been nice to have been able to spend more time with them.