coopns, get a Cal-Van One Man Brake Bleeder. I've used it every 24 months on my 2000 Taurus. Follow my instructions above and bleed in this order for your car: RR, LF, LR, RF. Push the brake pedal down 15 times for your rear brakes and 10 times for your front brakes. This insures you get all of the old fluid out. You might want to get a Haynes manual for $13, if you are in doubt.
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24 Month Brake Fluid Flush
- Thread starter TxGreaseMonkey
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No, no septic tank here. I guess a bit diluted brake fluid won't be worse than some of the other stuff that goes down the drain.quote:
brake fluid is basically composed of water soluble glycols. just flush the motive out with tap water. i rinsed mine to the sanitary sewer since we live in a relative large town. if you have a septic tank you might not want to do this.
This order is only for those cars and trucks with the valve doohickey (what is that thing called?) in the middle of the brake line system, for those without it , it is RR, LR, RF, LF assuming the master cylinder is on drivers side in engine compartment. Check the owners manual or service manual to determine proper order or if you have the balancing valve.quote:
Originally posted by TxGreaseMonkey:
coopns, get a Cal-Van One Man Brake Bleeder. I've used it every 24 months on my 2000 Taurus. Follow my instructions above and bleed in this order for your car: RR, LF, LR, RF. Push the brake pedal down 15 times for your rear brakes and 10 times for your front brakes. This insures you get all of the old fluid out. You might want to get a Haynes manual for $13, if you are in doubt.
TxGreaseMonkey
Thread starter
Proportional valve
TxGreaseMonkey
Thread starter
Full description is "Cal-Van Brake Bleeder (Economy One-Man), No. 247."
TxGreaseMonkey
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Here's a way to make your own One-Man Bleeder. Take a 14" piece of 1/8" I.D. clear tubing (Tygon Fuel & Oil Tubing is best), screw a bolt into the end of it, and take an X-Acto knife and cut a 1/2" slit in the tubing, just above the end of the bolt. Insert in a 20 oz. clear Coke bottle, partially filled with brake fluid, and you are good-to-go. You can get Tygon tubing at your local model airplane hobby shop.
The brakes were doing poorly enough on the older car recently that I finally had a shop bleed them. What a difference. It has new shoes and fairly new pads, even has fresh fluid, but at the conclusion of bleeding them the last time my son said that he had hard time keeping fluid in and it ran dry once. The kids, one pouring fluid in and one at the brake, were at the end of their patience so we left it at that. The brakes were 'only slightly soft' and weren't a problem, until trying to stop at the bottom of a long, fast grade. I'll probably let the shop do it from now on.
TxGreaseMonkey
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In Europe vehicle safety inspections are much more thorough than in this country. They will even test your brake fluid. Most cars in this country would fail that test. I would say that regularly changing brake fluid is the most overlooked maintenance item on cars in this country. I've read about the improvements in EPDM hoses and the dangers to ABS systems by doing it and I don't agree. I think the danger is in not regularly changing the fluid with a quality product. It's your life.
If brake fluid was a tenth the problem you and some others claim, problems would be common, not almost unknown on road vehicles. GM and Ford still largely do not reccomend it.quote:
Originally posted by TxGreaseMonkey:
In Europe vehicle safety inspections are much more thorough than in this country. They will even test your brake fluid. Most cars in this country would fail that test. I would say that regularly changing brake fluid is the most overlooked maintenance item on cars in this country. I've read about the improvements in EPDM hoses and the dangers to ABS systems by doing it and I don't agree. I think the danger is in not regularly changing the fluid with a quality product. It's your life.
TxGreaseMonkey
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Their brake fluid eventually gets replaced, along with their corroded calipers, wheel cylinders, and ABS system. My son is a lawyer in Los Angeles and doesn't work with his hands. His 1997 Buick went in to the Buick dealer 7 months ago and they wanted $2,500 to do a brake job. They insisted in replacing everything. Kids only learn when they have to pay for it themselves. Now, he uses Mobil 1 E.P., a premium oil filter, and will never let his brake fluid go again. He learned an important lesson the hard way. It's better to learn synthetically through the experiences of others. The cost of replacing brake fluid is small in comparison. If you don't want to bleed the entire system, at least replace what is in your master cylinder reservoir.
Even though GM, Ford, and Chrysler don't even talk about replacing brake fluid anymore, every European and Japanese manufacturer I'm aware of does. Usually every 24 months. Each of us has to decide for themselves what to do.
Even though GM, Ford, and Chrysler don't even talk about replacing brake fluid anymore, every European and Japanese manufacturer I'm aware of does. Usually every 24 months. Each of us has to decide for themselves what to do.
TxGreaseMonkey
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With a 122,000 miles on my 1993 Civic, all I have spent on brakes is for brake fluid and a tube of silicone grease. I also use the brake fluid to bleed my hydraulic clutch every 2 years. The silicone grease I used to proactively regrease the front caliper pins. I haven't even had to replace pads or shoes, yet. Even though OSHA is against it, I take my car outside and use my air compressor to blow all of the brake dust out of the rear drums. I do this every time I rotate my tires and you can really tell it helps the car to brake faster.
One more time for the benefit of any new comers willing to measure the posts here against the real world. This fluid flushing comes up regularly. Have yet to see how it helps any common problems.
In the common single piston caliper, the piston rides in a slightly over size bore, but only touches the seal, a square cross section ring that fits in a groove. When you apply the brake, the piston pushes the inner pad against the rotor, and the caliper slides in and pulls the outer one against the rotor. When you let off, the piston and caliper are pushed back just enough to clear by the wobble of the rotor. There are no springs. If the hardware is in good shape, the piston and caliper both move, but very little. If you do not lube and clean up or replace the hardware when you change pads, the caliper will not slide in as it needs to to pull the outside pad against the rotor. This is a frequent problem causing the inside pad to wear more and uneven braking.
As the pads wear, more and more of the piston stays outside the seal, untouched by the brake fluid. It is protected by a rubber boot, sealing out moisture, grit, salt, etc. Anything that makes it in past the boot can attack the the chrome plated steel piston. The plating is thinned where the it was abraded by the seal. It is slow, but rubber does abrade hard metals. Of course, the seal wears away too. The boot is next to the back side of the pad and heat from it and age harden the rubber and reduce its elasticity. It becomes less and less effective in keeping out yuck, even if it isn't cracked or torn.
Fresh fluid never touches the boot, the vulnerable part of the piston outside the seal, or the sealing surface of the seal. I doubt if flushing the caliper even disturbs the old fluid in the narrow annular space between the inner part of the piston and the bore. The inlet usually is near the bottom, but the outlet is always at the very top to bleed out the air. I am not even sure flushing the brakes carries any water or grit up and out of the caliper.
In time, the boot lets in enough to corrode the piston, both the plated steel ones and aluminum ones. Pushing the piston back with a lump of rust on it, either makes it stick, or the seal leak. Many times people will install new pads in calipers that were working fine, and then they either leak or stick. The solution is timely, preventative replacement of the old worn rubber parts and fresh lube on the piston. I prefer Sil-Glyde. A caliper kit is cheap, and rebuilding a caliper isn't that bad of a job. If you let it go too long, the piston is shot, and the cost of a piston and a kit is more than a rebuilt caliper. I have always rebuilt mine in time. After a rebuild or 2, all the original fluid is long gone before it can cause problems. On advantage of rebuilding my own calipers is that I know it goes back together with a good coat of Sil-Glyde on everything, especially the bleed screw, not brake fluid or the special brake greases that are just as hygroscopic.
Cleaning up the caliper and hardware, replacing the old, worn rubber parts, and lubing everything good prevents common problems like sticking or leaking calipers, uneven pad wear, uneven application, and broken bleed screws.
After 5 -10 years, it is good to replace the rubber brake hoses. Master cylinders are up away from the heat, salt, moisture, and grit, and seem to last much longer. If you have salt, it is good to inspect the steel brake lines paying particular attention to places where crud collects, holding moisture and salt against them. Badly pitted ones should be replaced.
In the 3 years I worked in a brake shop, leaking, sticking calipers, uneven wear, broken bleed screws, bad hoses, and brake lines rusted from the outside happened every day. We specialized in trucks. I never remember problems with brake fluid boiling. I never heard of replacing the fluid either.
In the common single piston caliper, the piston rides in a slightly over size bore, but only touches the seal, a square cross section ring that fits in a groove. When you apply the brake, the piston pushes the inner pad against the rotor, and the caliper slides in and pulls the outer one against the rotor. When you let off, the piston and caliper are pushed back just enough to clear by the wobble of the rotor. There are no springs. If the hardware is in good shape, the piston and caliper both move, but very little. If you do not lube and clean up or replace the hardware when you change pads, the caliper will not slide in as it needs to to pull the outside pad against the rotor. This is a frequent problem causing the inside pad to wear more and uneven braking.
As the pads wear, more and more of the piston stays outside the seal, untouched by the brake fluid. It is protected by a rubber boot, sealing out moisture, grit, salt, etc. Anything that makes it in past the boot can attack the the chrome plated steel piston. The plating is thinned where the it was abraded by the seal. It is slow, but rubber does abrade hard metals. Of course, the seal wears away too. The boot is next to the back side of the pad and heat from it and age harden the rubber and reduce its elasticity. It becomes less and less effective in keeping out yuck, even if it isn't cracked or torn.
Fresh fluid never touches the boot, the vulnerable part of the piston outside the seal, or the sealing surface of the seal. I doubt if flushing the caliper even disturbs the old fluid in the narrow annular space between the inner part of the piston and the bore. The inlet usually is near the bottom, but the outlet is always at the very top to bleed out the air. I am not even sure flushing the brakes carries any water or grit up and out of the caliper.
In time, the boot lets in enough to corrode the piston, both the plated steel ones and aluminum ones. Pushing the piston back with a lump of rust on it, either makes it stick, or the seal leak. Many times people will install new pads in calipers that were working fine, and then they either leak or stick. The solution is timely, preventative replacement of the old worn rubber parts and fresh lube on the piston. I prefer Sil-Glyde. A caliper kit is cheap, and rebuilding a caliper isn't that bad of a job. If you let it go too long, the piston is shot, and the cost of a piston and a kit is more than a rebuilt caliper. I have always rebuilt mine in time. After a rebuild or 2, all the original fluid is long gone before it can cause problems. On advantage of rebuilding my own calipers is that I know it goes back together with a good coat of Sil-Glyde on everything, especially the bleed screw, not brake fluid or the special brake greases that are just as hygroscopic.
Cleaning up the caliper and hardware, replacing the old, worn rubber parts, and lubing everything good prevents common problems like sticking or leaking calipers, uneven pad wear, uneven application, and broken bleed screws.
After 5 -10 years, it is good to replace the rubber brake hoses. Master cylinders are up away from the heat, salt, moisture, and grit, and seem to last much longer. If you have salt, it is good to inspect the steel brake lines paying particular attention to places where crud collects, holding moisture and salt against them. Badly pitted ones should be replaced.
In the 3 years I worked in a brake shop, leaking, sticking calipers, uneven wear, broken bleed screws, bad hoses, and brake lines rusted from the outside happened every day. We specialized in trucks. I never remember problems with brake fluid boiling. I never heard of replacing the fluid either.
TxGreaseMonkey
Thread starter
I bought mine for $2.99 at Tractor Supply.
Labman, would you not agree that replacing brake fluid, which is hygroscopic, which is key in how hydraulic brakes function, is equally as important as servicing the seals on a regular basis?
I don't disagree with what you're saying; the rubber seals need their own attention, and certainly, replacing brake fluid cannot replace worn rubber seals (duh).
You make it seem like brake fluid replacement is a bad thing and does nothing for the braking system. Brakes are a system, not just rubber seals and dust boots. For brakes to function properly, you have to have properly working fluid and rubber seals.
You even said it yourself, that brake fluid is hygroscopic, so how can moisture in the system not be a bad thing, yet you say you've seen no problems with it not being replaced on a timely interval.
I don't disagree with what you're saying; the rubber seals need their own attention, and certainly, replacing brake fluid cannot replace worn rubber seals (duh).
You make it seem like brake fluid replacement is a bad thing and does nothing for the braking system. Brakes are a system, not just rubber seals and dust boots. For brakes to function properly, you have to have properly working fluid and rubber seals.
You even said it yourself, that brake fluid is hygroscopic, so how can moisture in the system not be a bad thing, yet you say you've seen no problems with it not being replaced on a timely interval.
No Chris, I don't agree. I cannot see changing brake fluid as helping prevent any common problems. The only exception is that the Bosch ABS may be overly sensitive to moisture and contamination. Otherwise, fooling around with unnecessary brake work is more likely to cause problems than prevent problems.
*iatrogenic (iatro- + Gr. gennan to produce) resulting from the activity of physicians. Originally applied to disorders induced in the patient by autosuggestion based on the physician's examination, manner, or discussion, the term is now applied to any adverse condition in a patient occurring as the result of treatment by a physician or surgeon, especially to infections acquired by the patient during the course of treatment. Cf. nosocomial.
*iatrogenic (iatro- + Gr. gennan to produce) resulting from the activity of physicians. Originally applied to disorders induced in the patient by autosuggestion based on the physician's examination, manner, or discussion, the term is now applied to any adverse condition in a patient occurring as the result of treatment by a physician or surgeon, especially to infections acquired by the patient during the course of treatment. Cf. nosocomial.
Ever see the "sludge" in a brake system? caused from not changing the fluid, Labman? you don't know what you are talking about on this subject.
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