229.5 vs 229.6 (2022 versions)

[cachaca]

Fell down the engine oil rabbit hole when I discovered my vehicle was low on oil, and I had to top it up. I have a 2017 GLC43 AMG with 88,000 km on it. Couple weeks later, I took it to the dealer to get serviced and they changed the oil, putting in OEM 5W-40. I moved recently, so the place that did my oil change last year put in 0W-40. Given these were both dealerships that did the service, I was a bit surprised by the discrepancy (going independent next time). Speaking with someone at the old place, they said it was probably supply reasons for why the other place didn't stock the 0w-40 version recommend for AMGs.

Anyway, both meet the 229.5 spec, which is what matters. However, my vehicle also lists 229.6 spec oils, and 229.6 only come in two weights (0w-30 and 5w-30) vs the four weights offered at 229.5 (0w-, 5w-; 30, 40). There are a lot fewer oils that meet the 229.6 spec too, but if it's somehow better, shouldn't I try them next oil change in 6 months?

There doesn't seem to be much discussion of the different specs here, but one thread from 5 years ago gives the Lubrizol comparison card using the 2016 versions of the specs, but those specs seem to have changed as of 2019 and later 2022. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mb-229-5-vs-229-6.316514/post-5234799

As you can see, the 229.6 spec (2022) has shifted from 9 for fuel economy to 7, but has increased from matching 229.5 at 7 to a 10 for oxidative thickening. Wouldn't that suggest it's the better spec to use now? And, what about the shift from 40 to 30? Is it better to stick with 0w-40 (a favourite of many) or switch to 0w-30 or even the 5w-30 to meet this newer 229.6 spec?

list of 229.6 spec oils: https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/sheet/229.6
list of 229.5 spec oils: https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/sheet/229.5

of the 229.6 oils, Ravenol seems to have the most that meet it, and that is most avaible: Ravenol FDS SAE 5W-30, HSV SAE 0W-30, SSV SAE 0W-30. There's also LIQUI MOLY Special Tec B FE 0W-30. Those seem like the easiest to find for me.

 

[stevejones]

one tenth

 

[930.engineering]

https://www.ravenol.de/en/properties/freigabe/mb-freigabe-229x5

 

[Dr_Dr3i]

I would continue with the 229.5 spec stuff, as I like the HTHS minimum of 3.5 for the oils I'll choose from.

IMO, this would be in the best interest of your AMG's turbocharged engine.

 

[edyvw]

Fell down the engine oil rabbit hole when I discovered my vehicle was low on oil, and I had to top it up. I have a 2017 GLC43 AMG with 88,000 km on it. Couple weeks later, I took it to the dealer to get serviced and they changed the oil, putting in OEM 5W-40. I moved recently, so the place that did my oil change last year put in 0W-40. Given these were both dealerships that did the service, I was a bit surprised by the discrepancy (going independent next time). Speaking with someone at the old place, they said it was probably supply reasons for why the other place didn't stock the 0w-40 version recommend for AMGs.

Anyway, both meet the 229.5 spec, which is what matters. However, my vehicle also lists 229.6 spec oils, and 229.6 only come in two weights (0w-30 and 5w-30) vs the four weights offered at 229.5 (0w-, 5w-; 30, 40). There are a lot fewer oils that meet the 229.6 spec too, but if it's somehow better, shouldn't I try them next oil change in 6 months?

There doesn't seem to be much discussion of the different specs here, but one thread from 5 years ago gives the Lubrizol comparison card using the 2016 versions of the specs, but those specs seem to have changed as of 2019 and later 2022. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mb-229-5-vs-229-6.316514/post-5234799

As you can see, the 229.6 spec (2022) has shifted from 9 for fuel economy to 7, but has increased from matching 229.5 at 7 to a 10 for oxidative thickening. Wouldn't that suggest it's the better spec to use now? And, what about the shift from 40 to 30? Is it better to stick with 0w-40 (a favourite of many) or switch to 0w-30 or even the 5w-30 to meet this newer 229.6 spec?

list of 229.6 spec oils: https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/sheet/229.6
list of 229.5 spec oils: https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/sheet/229.5

of the 229.6 oils, Ravenol seems to have the most that meet it, and that is most avaible: Ravenol FDS SAE 5W-30, HSV SAE 0W-30, SSV SAE 0W-30. There's also LIQUI MOLY Special Tec B FE 0W-30. Those seem like the easiest to find for me.

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You dwelled on a lot of details there, except the most important one: Lubrizol tells you that that tool is NOT designed to compare approvals!
MB229.6 is energy-conserving oil. If you want something stout, go MB229.5.

 

[cachaca]

I would continue with the 229.5 spec stuff, as I like the HTHS minimum of 3.5 for the oils I'll choose from.

IMO, this would be in the best interest of your AMG's turbocharged engine.

Good point. Doing some more reading, I saw one version of the owner's manual for my vehicle say only to use 5w-40 or 0W-40 weights in the AMG version. The manual in my glovebox says no such thing, but I suppose it would make sense that the 229.6 spec oils only available in 30 weight would be okay for the non-AMG version but probably not the AMG (Mercedes gives the same manual for several versions of the vehicle).

The most helpful video I found on this topic was this one, , but he's using it in a BMW.

 

[cachaca]

You dwelled on a lot of details there, except the most important one: Lubrizol tells you that that tool is NOT designed to compare approvals!
MB229.6 is energy-conserving oil. If you want something stout, go MB229.5.

What's it for then, and why would it allow you to overlay multiple approval standards if not for the purpose of comparison?

But, I take your point. If I'm sticking to 229.5 spec though, would it be worth trying a 0w-30 that meets that spec instead of the 0w-40, or just stick with the 40?

 

[kschachn]

But, I take your point. If I'm sticking to 229.5 spec though, would it be worth trying a 0w-30 that meets that spec instead of the 0w-40, or just stick with the 40?

Since they both have the same HT/HS requirement the grade is functionally irrelevant. Get the cheapest one that carries the approval.

 

[edyvw]

What's it for then, and why would it allow you to overlay multiple approval standards if not for the purpose of comparison?

But, I take your point. If I'm sticking to 229.5 spec though, would it be worth trying a 0w-30 that meets that spec instead of the 0w-40, or just stick with the 40?

They have it that way, but they also have disclaimer there not to take it as factual comparison.
The most important thing you should look is HTHS, NOT a grade. MB229.6 is energy conserving oil, that is why it is in 0W30 or rarely 5W30. Grade is range, and 30 grade is 9.2cst to 12.49cst. HTHS is basically viscosity at 150c or as some call viscosity under pressure. It is measured differently and more accurately. Both MB229.6 and MB229.5 as all European approvals are first and foremost based on HTHS, not a grade. Higher HTHS, more protection, but also more resistance=higher fuel consumption. So, MB229.6 is introduced to lower, theoretically, gas consumption, and in laboratory that might work, and EPA actually cares about that. Boom, MB can put on sticker better mpg results. Also, since the max is 3.49cP, XW40 oils could not fit there.
In reality, you won;t see difference. Minimum HTHS of 2.9 to 3.49cP is what MB229.6 requires. MB229.5 requires minimum 3.5cP. So, going 0W30 or 5W40 for example, is irrelevant as there is good HTHS "buffer." Also, take into consideration that for example, some XW30 oils have same or similar HTHS as some XW40 oils. For example, Mobil1 0W40 and Motul X-MAX 0W40 have HTHS of 3.6cP. Castrol Edge 0W30 has HTHS of 3.58cP. SOme HPL and Amsoil oils (not approved, but that is irrelevant when talking those oils) have oils in XW30 grade that are close to 3.6cP or some are at 3.6cP. For example, Pennzoil had 5W30 MB229.5 that had HTHS of 3.68cP.
So, look approval, as MB2229.5 is pretty much gold standard when all parameters are taken into consideration.
But my choice would be Castrol Edge 0W30 if you don't mind paying more on Amazon, or Mobil1 0W40 FS in Wal Mart.

 

[edyvw]

Good point. Doing some more reading, I saw one version of the owner's manual for my vehicle say only to use 5w-40 or 0W-40 weights in the AMG version. The manual in my glovebox says no such thing, but I suppose it would make sense that the 229.6 spec oils only available in 30 weight would be okay for the non-AMG version but probably not the AMG (Mercedes gives the same manual for several versions of the vehicle).

The most helpful video I found on this topic was this one, , but he's using it in a BMW.

He does not know how approvals work, and his explanation of cold performance, is, well, questionable.

 

[twX]

MB 229.5 is the only standard that is both high-SAPS and >3.5 cP. Unfortunately it hasn't been updated in a while, and doesn't have the more stringent engine test requirements that the newer MB standards have, but it's probably what you should use.

The 5W-40 will be just fine. It just won't be as good for fuel economy or extreme cold weather. Since you do 6-month oil changes, 5W-40 for summer and 0W-30 for winter might be appropriate depending on the climate.

 

[cachaca]

and his explanation of cold performance, is, well, questionable.

Are you talking about his claim that 0W oils will get the engine up to operating temperature faster than 5W oils?

 

[edyvw]

Are you talking about his claim that 0W oils will get the engine up to operating temperature faster than 5W oils?

Everything. Just bcs. oil is 0W, doesn’t mean it not actually thicker at certain temperatures than 5W. Thicker=more resistance =more heat.

 

[cachaca]

They have it that way, but they also have disclaimer there not to take it as factual comparison.

Got it.

The most important thing you should look is HTHS, NOT a grade. . . Higher HTHS, more protection, but also more resistance=higher fuel consumption. So, MB229.6 is introduced to lower, theoretically, gas consumption, and in laboratory that might work, and EPA actually cares about that. Boom, MB can put on sticker better mpg results.

Ah, so it's more of a marketing gimmick, and not better for performance. I suppose if I had the GLC 300 instead of the GLC 43, I might consider using it for the possible fuel economy savings.

. . . For example, Mobil1 0W40 and Motul X-MAX 0W40 have HTHS of 3.6cP. Castrol Edge 0W30 has HTHS of 3.58cP. SOme HPL and Amsoil oils (not approved, but that is irrelevant when talking those oils) have oils in XW30 grade that are close to 3.6cP or some are at 3.6cP.

Amsoil 0W-40 holds the 229.5 approval with 3.7cP. I have considered switching to this Amsoil, because many claim it better than the OEM oil, which is Mobil 1 (a tech at one of the Mercedes dealerships told me they source their oils from the same place that supplies ESSO wuth fuel and Mobil lubricant). Plus, while the Amsoil is definitely more expensive than the Castrol or M1, it's slightly heaper than the OEM oil at $15CAD/L for 5W and $18/L for 0W (they did give me a complimentary litre yay). I need 6.5 L, so I'm always looking at price.

For example, Pennzoil had 5W30 MB229.5 that had HTHS of 3.68cP.
So, look approval, as MB2229.5 is pretty much gold standard when all parameters are taken into consideration.
But my choice would be Castrol Edge 0W30 if you don't mind paying more on Amazon, or Mobil1 0W40 FS in Wal Mart.

That Castrol holds 229.3 and 229.5, whereas the the Castrol Edge 0W-40, which is more available in my area, only holds the 229.5 approval, and it's available at Walmart ($53 for 5L). Is there a reason to choose 0W-30 over 0W-40 if both meet 229.5 for my biturbocharged 3.0 L 6V? Would the oil that meets the 229.5 approval with the highest HTHS be the best oil to use? So, if a 0W-30 oil has a higher HTHS measurement than a 0W-40 oil, then the 0W-30 oil would be the better choice?

 

[edyvw]

Got it.

Ah, so it's more of a marketing gimmick, and not better for performance. I suppose if I had the GLC 300 instead of the GLC 43, I might consider using it for the possible fuel economy savings.

Amsoil 0W-40 holds the 229.5 approval with 3.7cP. I have considered switching to this Amsoil, because many claim it better than the OEM oil, which is Mobil 1 (a tech at one of the Mercedes dealerships told me they source their oils from the same place that supplies ESSO wuth fuel and Mobil lubricant). Plus, while the Amsoil is definitely more expensive than the Castrol or M1, it's slightly heaper than the OEM oil at $15CAD/L for 5W and $18/L for 0W (they did give me a complimentary litre yay). I need 6.5 L, so I'm always looking at price.

That Castrol holds 229.3 and 229.5, whereas the the Castrol Edge 0W-40, which is more available in my area, only holds the 229.5 approval, and it's available at Walmart ($53 for 5L). Is there a reason to choose 0W-30 over 0W-40 if both meet 229.5 for my biturbocharged 3.0 L 6V? Would the oil that meets the 229.5 approval with the highest HTHS be the best oil to use? So, if a 0W-30 oil has a higher HTHS measurement than a 0W-40 oil, then the 0W-30 oil would be the better choice?

Ok so you are in Canada.
1. MB229.3 does not mean anything. MB229.5 is backward compatible with 229.3 as it is more stringent than 229.3. Oil blenders just choose not to list MB229.3.
2. Castrol 0W30 is more shear stable. It has low KV100 but high HTHS. However, in CAN, it might be too expensive and not worth it as there are other equally good oils (remember, this is oil forum, we like to split hairs).
3. Canada? Motomaster 5W40 or 0W40. They are rebadged Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Depending on ambient temperature. If in Montreal, Toronto, or Edmonton, 0W40, if Vancouver, 5W40 (5W40 will be more shear stable). Motomaster is far cheaper as far as I know. I used Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 on track, and it is an exceptional oil.

 

[cachaca]

2. Castrol 0W30 is more shear stable. It has low KV100 but high HTHS. However, in CAN, it might be too expensive and not worth it as there are other equally good oils (remember, this is oil forum, we like to split hairs).

That's exactly why I asked my question here in the first place, everywhere else couldn't answer to the difference between 229.6 and 229.5 specs. No one else splits hairs about oil like this forum lol.

3. Canada? Motomaster 5W40 or 0W40. They are rebadged Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Depending on ambient temperature. If in Montreal, Toronto, or Edmonton, 0W40, if Vancouver, 5W40 (5W40 will be more shear stable). Motomaster is far cheaper as far as I know. I used Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 on track, and it is an exceptional oil.

And, yeah I'm in Canada. I take it from your response that 5W is preferable if you don't need that colder start protection of 0W? Makes me curious why the Mercedes OEM 0W is marked for AMG on the bottom, whereas the 5W is merely just Mercedes.

Good to know about MotoMaster. I see the Shell logo on it too. It's actually on sale right now too. MM is the in-house brand of Canadian Tire. I'm not always a fan of those in-house brands, even the OEM, because it feels like there's a chance you don't know what's in the bottle. I've heard good things about Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Ofc, there are it's detractors. The "made from natural gas" sticker on the front confused me at first, and made me question its fully synthetic claim until I read further—not sure of its claims to cleaner engines because of it tho. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 is available at Walmart in bulk for a good price. The 0W-40 version is harder to find.

As for where in Canada, I'm in the BC Southern Interior. The annual average temperatures are -20°C to 30°C. But, those are the averages for the valley bottom. This summer, we got over 40°C during a heatwave and there was a cold snap this winter that went below -30°C that killed most of the fruit trees and vines—that was usually cold, but nothing warmer than -10°C for a few months is pretty common. In the mountain passes though, winter temperatures can get below -40°C. Idk if I've ever lived in place with a more variable climate—hard on vehicles, especially tires and engines. So, because of that, I'm tempted to just run 0W all year around, but 5W is probably fine...idk.

 

[edyvw]

That's exactly why I asked my question here in the first place, everywhere else couldn't answer to the difference between 229.6 and 229.5 specs. No one else splits hairs about oil like this forum lol.

And, yeah I'm in Canada. I take it from your response that 5W is preferable if you don't need that colder start protection of 0W? Makes me curious why the Mercedes OEM 0W is marked for AMG on the bottom, whereas the 5W is merely just Mercedes.

Good to know about MotoMaster. I see the Shell logo on it too. It's actually on sale right now too. MM is the in-house brand of Canadian Tire. I'm not always a fan of those in-house brands, even the OEM, because it feels like there's a chance you don't know what's in the bottle. I've heard good things about Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Ofc, there are it's detractors. The "made from natural gas" sticker on the front confused me at first, and made me question its fully synthetic claim until I read further—not sure of its claims to cleaner engines because of it tho. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 is available at Walmart in bulk for a good price. The 0W-40 version is harder to find.

As for where in Canada, I'm in the BC Southern Interior. The annual average temperatures are -20°C to 30°C. But, those are the averages for the valley bottom. This summer, we got over 40°C during a heatwave and there was a cold snap this winter that went below -30°C that killed most of the fruit trees and vines—that was usually cold, but nothing warmer than -10°C for a few months is pretty common. In the mountain passes though, winter temperatures can get below -40°C. Idk if I've ever lived in place with a more variable climate—hard on vehicles, especially tires and engines. So, because of that, I'm tempted to just run 0W all year around, but 5W is probably fine...idk.

Go 5W40.
AMG does that as Mobil1 premier product is 0W40. Motomaster is just repackaged Pennzoil 9Shell Helix). Use it with confidence. I did.

 

[4WD]

Ok so you are in Canada.
1. MB229.3 does not mean anything. MB229.5 is backward compatible with 229.3 as it is more stringent than 229.3. Oil blenders just choose not to list MB229.3.
2. Castrol 0W30 is more shear stable. It has low KV100 but high HTHS. However, in CAN, it might be too expensive and not worth it as there are other equally good oils (remember, this is oil forum, we like to split hairs).
3. Canada? Motomaster 5W40 or 0W40. They are rebadged Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Depending on ambient temperature. If in Montreal, Toronto, or Edmonton, 0W40, if Vancouver, 5W40 (5W40 will be more shear stable). Motomaster is far cheaper as far as I know. I used Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 on track, and it is an exceptional oil.

This still around … ? Ran it in my 2015 ecoBoost (don’t tell Ford)

https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/gl-xx-mobil-1-formula-m-5w-40

 

[loneryder]

Take care of that AMG engine with 229.5!

 

[cachaca]

Go 5W40.
AMG does that as Mobil1 premier product is 0W40. Motomaster is just repackaged Pennzoil 9Shell Helix). Use it with confidence. I did.

Interesting.
MotoMaster has a 0W-40 marketed as OE Plus European Formula, whereas their fully synthetic 5W-40 doesn't have any of that on the bottle. Both meet 229.5 tho. Then there's Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 ofc.

Shell feels like a screwy company to deal with, putting the same oil in a bunch of different bottles with a bunch of different labels and claims on each one. Like, before we spoke, if I was choosing a MotoMaster oil for my car, I'd probably choose the one marked for European cars, instead of the 5w, or just grab the Pennzoil brand one with Euro on the label.