225/45 R17 91W for e46 330Ci: which all-seasons suck the least?

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My suggestion is to look at the Bridgestone 980+, Toyo Celsius Sport (available?) or Hankook 4S2, all of these have hard rubber bead inserts to improve handling and steering response even though the Toyo and Hankook are TR classed as GT vs UHP, though Toyo calls theirs High Performance.

I know the 980+ is a little short in wet tests but I love them, even better than both my prior Mich A/S 3+ or CC2 in handling response, and strangely the 4S2 is on closeout after only a year
 
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Oh well. Germany's loss.

Most use dedicated winter and summer tires.

A loss? That's typical for US and running A/S, not so often in Europe:

180210-midwest-snow-storm-2.jpg

.
 
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Most use dedicated winter and summer tires.

A loss? That's typical for US and running A/S, not so often in Europe:

180210-midwest-snow-storm-2.jpg

.
me wonders, if it´s because of everybody having just m/s tyres.
which to my surprise, does not guarantee winter behavior.
3pmsf is eu thing, it contains winter tests.
 
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me wonders, if it´s because of everybody having just m/s tyres.
which to my surprise, does not guarantee winter behavior.
3pmsf is eu thing, it contains winter tests.
And so does the 3PMSF in USA/Canada, just a different test from EU

Maybe you're confusing with the ice grip symbol.

tyres_webnews_final.jpg
 
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It's also a relatively new category in Europe, compared to the all-season branding in the USA/Canada.

Yes and no. all season tyres have been around for decades but never really took off. I'd say Michelin Crossclimate forced the change and made all-season a viable option for drivers.

Before it was about 1% market share in my area, but went up to 5 ish after. Most of those are cross climates but other brands enjoyed the ride aswell.
 
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Ok, maybe a bit of a history lesson is needed here.

When radial tires were introduced in the 1960's, it became apparent that they had better wear characteristics than regular bias tires. That meant that tire designers could use more aggressive tread patterns and not suffer wear issues. In fact, SOME radial STREET tires had very nearly the snow traction of the commonly used "Snow Tires". Many tire manufacturers started producing such tires under the "All Season" umbrella.

This created a problem in California where the California Highway Patrol required "Snow Tires" or chains on certain highways during certain inclement weather. CHP requested a way to tell what was and what was not an All Season tire.

At the time, snow traction testing was in its infancy - not reliable and not repeatable. So the RMA (Now the US Tire Manufactuers Association) created a verbal description of what an All Season tire was and allowed tire manufacturers to use the letters "M" and "S" with some sort of divider between those letters, such as "-" , "/", "+", etc. You can see that today on all All Season tires.
Here's a link to the verbal description of what is required to get the "MS" symbol: USTMA Snow Tire Definitions for Passenger and Light Truck Tires

What I find interesting is that in spite of the shortcomings of the "MS" symbol, snow tires basically disappeared from the market for about 20 years (except for a few locales).

Over the years, consumer's expectations for snow traction has grown - as well as the tire manufacturers ability to deliver better snow traction. Needless to say, the "MS" designation just doesn't work anymore.

In the mid 1990's, the Canadian government approached the Canadian Rubber Manufacturers Association (now TRAC - Tire and Rubber Association of Canada) and asked them to develop a definition for a Winter Tire. They needed it because they intended to require "Winter Tires" in certain locations and during certain times of the year and they needed a simple way to identify them. (Sound familiar?)

The CRMA collaborated with the RMA (Rubber Manufacturer's Association, now the US Tire Manufacturers Association) and ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials, now ASTM International.) to develop a test and a symbol that could be put on every qualifying tire.

But this time snow traction testing had progressed quite a bit, so they came up with a test - ASTM F1805. And the 3PMSF symbol - aka "Alpine" symbol.

In May 2021, the EU (European Union) announced a change to their label for tires to include both the Alpine symbol and an ice traction symbol (test in development, level not yet defined).

The best I can tell is that the term "All Season" is tied to the MS designation, even in Europe - and the Alpine symbol is required to call a tire a "Winter" tire, pretty much everywhere.

And then there are the "All Weather" tires, which can pass the US/Canadian version of the 3MPSF test, but are suitable for summer usage. It's not an official designation. Just one adopted by market folks to identify such tires.

And I've alluded to it, but there is a difference in the US/Canadian acceptance level for the Alpine symbol (now 12% better than the SRTT) and the EU (European Union) acceptance level (25%). But I think the tests are the same.
 
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Countries In the EU decide by themselves if they require winter or all season tyres in winter or during winter conditions. They also decide what is and isn't a winter tyre. Some will allow the M+S designation, others won't.

Where I live, there's no requirement to run winter capable tyres.
 
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Ok, maybe a bit of a history lesson is needed here.

When radial tires were introduced in the 1960's, it became apparent that they had better wear characteristics than regular bias tires. That meant that tire designers could use more aggressive tread patterns and not suffer wear issues. In fact, SOME radial STREET tires had very nearly the snow traction of the commonly used "Snow Tires". Many tire manufacturers started producing such tires under the "All Season" umbrella.

This created a problem in California where the California Highway Patrol required "Snow Tires" or chains on certain highways during certain inclement weather. CHP requested a way to tell what was and what was not an All Season tire.

At the time, snow traction testing was in its infancy - not reliable and not repeatable. So the RMA (Now the US Tire Manufactuers Association) created a verbal description of what an All Season tire was and allowed tire manufacturers to use the letters "M" and "S" with some sort of divider between those letters, such as "-" , "/", "+", etc. You can see that today on all All Season tires.
Here's a link to the verbal description of what is required to get the "MS" symbol: USTMA Snow Tire Definitions for Passenger and Light Truck Tires

What I find interesting is that in spite of the shortcomings of the "MS" symbol, snow tires basically disappeared from the market for about 20 years (except for a few locales).

Over the years, consumer's expectations for snow traction has grown - as well as the tire manufacturers ability to deliver better snow traction. Needless to say, the "MS" designation just doesn't work anymore.

In the mid 1990's, the Canadian government approached the Canadian Rubber Manufacturers Association (now TRAC - Tire and Rubber Association of Canada) and asked them to develop a definition for a Winter Tire. They needed it because they intended to require "Winter Tires" in certain locations and during certain times of the year and they needed a simple way to identify them. (Sound familiar?)

The CRMA collaborated with the RMA (Rubber Manufacturer's Association, now the US Tire Manufacturers Association) and ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials, now ASTM International.) to develop a test and a symbol that could be put on every qualifying tire.

But this time snow traction testing had progressed quite a bit, so they came up with a test - ASTM F1805. And the 3PMSF symbol - aka "Alpine" symbol.

In May 2021, the EU (European Union) announced a change to their label for tires to include both the Alpine symbol and an ice traction symbol (test in development, level not yet defined).

The best I can tell is that the term "All Season" is tied to the MS designation, even in Europe - and the Alpine symbol is required to call a tire a "Winter" tire, pretty much everywhere.

And then there are the "All Weather" tires, which can pass the US/Canadian version of the 3MPSF test, but are suitable for summer usage. It's not an official designation. Just one adopted by market folks to identify such tires.

And I've alluded to it, but there is a difference in the US/Canadian acceptance level for the Alpine symbol (now 12% better than the SRTT) and the EU (European Union) acceptance level (25%). But I think the tests are the same.
The RMA test is an "acceleration" test.

The UNECE test is a braking test.

Technically 2 different tests to get the 3PMSF for different markets
 
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