.223 for deer unethical?

[Saturn_Fan]

Just curious as to what Bill and others think about using a .223 for deer. In the hands of a skilled shooter, shooting a 75 grain bullet, is it unethical to kill a White tail deer with it a ranges of 200 yard or under?

For reference: At 200 yards a 75gr BTM has a velocity of 2302 fps and an energy of 883 ft lbs.

I know guys that say a .223 is the minimum deer cartridge while others say a .243 is the minimum.

Thoughts?

 

[mpersell]

It is unless they're little bitty deer. In most states that have mule deer seasons they don't even like .243.

It's a question of deer size vs bullet weight. Heavier bullets penetrate more and instigate the shock for a quick kill.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

I tend to agree with you mpersell.

I think the only way I would pull the trigger on using a .223 for deer would be in a survivalist situation, end of the world type deal, where I had no choice.

My wife has taken a lot of deer with a .243 here in Wisconsin and I'll be using 150 grain PSP in 30-06 this year on my deer hunt.

 

[SuperDave456]

It all depends on where you are.

I know that down here in Texas a bunch of our deer are extrenely small compared to the size of the Mule Deer up in Wis.

I also know people who hunt deer with their .223 and barnes bullet or some other controlled expansion bullet. That being said I KNOW they would never hunt a Mule Deer with such a round. Although it could work, Barnes bullets have alot of good things going for them, I think a .30-30, .270 or a .30 cal would be a better bet.

 

[Bror Jace]

Glad to see a lot of people here making sense.

Yes, a really skilled marksman could easily drop a typical whitetail (and as already noted, they vary in size greatly) with a .223 Remington ... but such an experienced shooter is likely to have a more suitable rifle or shotgun for the job.

BUT, if one had an ultra-accurate varmint rig, and switched to the heaviest .223 expanding rounds available AND was hunting in an area where you could see the deer 50+ yards off and had time to aim carefully, I would have no problem with someone using that to take all but the largest (mule) deer.

It's the idiots that want to hunt deer and set out to BUY a .222/.223 rifle specifically for that purpose that I have a problem with.

Grow a pair and buy a proper tool for the job. If you can't handle more than a .223 (and I've known some mighty large men who were ridiculously recoil phobic) then stay home and help Mom with the sewing.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
then stay home and help Mom with the sewing.


That's awesome. ROLFMAO

 

[Camu Mahubah]

I have never heard of anyone hunting deer with a .223, though strangely I have heard of people using a .22LR in a pinch. Whether or not those stories are true or not?

I believe during the Depression quite a few White Tails were might have been taken with .22LR or even .410's. That is where I think those stories came from.

 

[Drew99GT]

People hunt deer with .357 mag hand guns!

 

[Bill in Utah]

I'd say with a .223 in a longer barrel with heaver bullet under 100 yards (I know.. and and and

) I'd say it could be done.

But in my book a 25-06 is the smallest I'd play with. but a .270 or 30cal is better.

All Utah states is it has to be centerfire and use expanding bullets.

Handguns at least .24 caliber with 500lb @ 100 yards.

My cousin uses a .357 mag rifle and 180gn bullets (have to use expanding bullets here in Utah in ANY caliber.) Seems to work well.

I've got a real accurate .223 that could take a deer.

Would I use it? Not unless I had to.

Take care, bill

 

[txrhino]

I tend to agree with most, kind of depends on the situation also. I'm in TX and using a .223 is not illegal to hunt deer, but .22LR is illegal, I would say that it wouldn't be my first choice though. The deer are smaller down here.

 

[wavinwayne]

Why would anyone want to use anything smaller than a .30 caliber for deer? Doing so will only turn a simple task into an exercise in frustration.

With proper bullet placement, you can kill anything that walks with a .223, but I wouldn't recommend it.

.30-06 is all you'll ever need for any whitetail deer.

 

[mcshooter]

just saw a tv show where a guy hunted and killed a cape buffao with a bow and arrow, of course another guy have a 416 just in case

 

[lars11]

How large are whitetail deer? The smaller red deer is allowed here with class2 rifles, equivalent of 222R but. It's a smaller deer, a large red deer is 70 lbs or 30 kg.
Most hunters still use what we call class1, ie. 6.5mm and up, with at least 2000kJ at 100meters.
I still think it is a bullet question: A 223 with a 45grs sierra will not be a responsible choice. A 55 to 80 grain hunting bullet will be adequate for a lot of game. The heavier bullets require a steeper twist than the regular 12 or 14 inch varmint twist barrels. Choose 8-10 inch twist in a serious long range hunting rifle. You will also enjoy the cheap surplus ammo better.
About other calibers, I believe a 357mag or 44mag is quite adequate at shorter distances. A revolver guy at 30 meters or a levergunner at 80 meters would do well if good marksman.

 

[1sttruck]

I think that laws on minimum calibers are for less than perfect shots, where larger calibers will do more damage or at least leave a bigger blood trail than smaller ones. The legendary hunter Bell evidently used a 7x57 Mauser for most of his elephant kills as he didn't like recoil, and he relied upon brain shots with solids. In spite of what Bell was able to do I don't think that a .223 is much beyond a varmit rifle, 2 legged or 4.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Why would anyone want to use anything smaller than a .30 caliber for deer? Doing so will only turn a simple task into an exercise in frustration.


There are many sadists out there.

 

[GMBoy]

I also read about people using the SKS (7.63x39) as a cheap deer rifle. Probably more humane than the .223, but I'd still never use either one of those for hunting deer. Just personal opinion.

 

[chevrofreak]

7.62x39 has about as much power as a .30-30 does. Use the correct bullet and a well placed shot will result in a clean kill.

 

[1sttruck]

The .270 has a good reputation for good penetration and clean kills with less recoil than a 30.06. The 6.5 Swiss, 7x57 Mauser, 7mm08 and others seem to do well too.

And for gazillion yard shots can always use the 7mm Rem mag, the .264 Win mag, etc., as one just needs a fancy scope, a guess at the range, and no concern about wounding lots of game.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: SuperDave456

I know that down here in Texas a bunch of our deer are extrenely small compared to the size of the Mule Deer up in Wis.
Pretty sure mule deer are only out west. Don't think they occur in Wisconsin, but white tail deer sure do and they get pretty big too.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

It's White tail in my neck of the woods.