.223 for deer unethical?

[Oldmoparguy1]

Back in the day, when i was a teener living in the back woods of MI, I took a deer or two with a 22lr, under 25 yards, head shot. Fellow I hung out with used a 22 Hornet in a lever action Winchester. He finally got caught for market hunting and did some time.

My dad carried an old 12 gauge double behind the seat in his truck. More then once I had to go out after midnight and pick up a deer with a big hole in it.

Mind you, this was poor times for us. We lived off the land for 4 years. Wasn't allowed to kill something unless we needed food.

We knew the sheriff personally and I suspect he knew what we did.

Funny how a single post can bring back a bunch of memories from my past.

 

[MarginCalled]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Why would anyone want to use anything smaller than a .30 caliber for deer? Doing so will only turn a simple task into an exercise in frustration.


There are many sadists out there.
Every deer dies one day or another.

 

[cephas]

Personally a .223 wouldn't be on my list of calibers for deer. However for the sake of discussion, since not all .223 barrels are standard, I'd want to check the twist rate of the barrel to be sure it'd stabilize the heavier bullets.

 

[alreadygone]

Wife is small statured and recoil sensitive. Not particularly mechanically inclined. She used a .223 Mini 14 Ruger for years, then switched to a Mini 30 Ranch in .762X39. Never lost a deer with either. Fanatic about neck shots, they're allways laying on the set of tracks they were in when the round went off. This is hunting from stands in scrub mixed with mature hardwoods. Never a shot over 125yds.

Bob

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Why would anyone want to use anything smaller than a .30 caliber for deer? Doing so will only turn a simple task into an exercise in frustration.

.30-06 is all you'll ever need for any whitetail deer.


I wonder about ya'll sometimes.

My main venison rifle is a Mauser 98 in .257 Ackley. 100grn Sierra at 3100 fps is plenty. "Needing" a 30-06 for whitetail, well, I just don't understand that. I can see it for the green whitetails exposed to gamma radiation maybe.

One of the most prolific whitetail hunters I know uses a Rem 600 in .222 and it absolutely gets the job done. Patience, and shot selection do wonders. Killing deer is no biggie as long as you don't shoot outside you or your weapon's ability.

 

[wavinwayne]

punisher,

The reason I prefer the .30-06 is because there is NO DOUBT that it will get the job done every time. Is it more than absolutely necessary? Yes, but then again, most of us BITOGers are the type of guys that prefer things that are better than they need to be.

There is nothing wrong with your caliber of choice in the hands of a skilled shooter.

Unlike the hunter you reference, there is no way I would use a .222 for whitetail. When a more effective round is readily available, why make the task any more difficult than it need be.

 

[alreadygone]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
punisher,

The reason I prefer the .30-06 is because there is NO DOUBT that it will get the job done every time. Is it more than absolutely necessary? Yes, but then again, most of us BITOGers are the type of guys that prefer things that are better than they need to be.

There is nothing wrong with your caliber of choice in the hands of a skilled shooter.

Unlike the hunter you reference, there is no way I would use a .222 for whitetail. When a more effective round is readily available, why make the task any more difficult than it need be.


Wayne,

Ya ever hear of bow hunting?

Bob

 

[wavinwayne]

alreadygone,

To answer your question: Yes, but I'm not sure what your point is.

WW

 

[lars11]

This seem to be an universal subject. In Sweden the smallest caliber allowed for "Big game" is 6.5x55 Mauser. It can do 2000J at 100m if stressed and hungry, with a long barrel.
Now, this Mauser 6.5 has been the "issue" rifle here so it is also the most popular caliber.
But is it Really adequate for moose? Or bear? Or hogs?
1. If a good hit, statistics show that moose walk as short as with a 30-06. (Shortest walk=.300WM)
2. If a bad hit? Well, less blood for tracing, but theres not a big difference between a 7.62mm and a 6.5mm if good bullets are used.
Seem to be only one real risk with this marginal cartridge: Heavy shoulder bone hits with fragile bullets. Not enough uumph to get to vitals, a small entry wound gives long and difficult tracing.
I think the .223 is at the same place. An adequate caliber requiring good bullets and good marksmen. On the tiny side for the bigger deers. Which can be compensated with training and avoiding risky shots.
But by all means, if you can have a 6.5 or a .30 caliber, use that one. Much more flexible solution for bigger game too.

Why don't all use the heavy all rounders? Well, here it is:
1. Heavier rifles
2. Heavier recoil (not that I agree, but...)
3. Expensive ammo

Why doesnt that matter more in real hunting siutations?
1,2,3: Practice is everything. People practice more with a lighter recoil and cheaper target ammo. That makes much more of a difference than the more theoretical issues of velocity-weight-diameter-energy-range.

 

[alreadygone]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
alreadygone,

To answer your question: Yes, but I'm not sure what your point is.

WW


Wayne, point being bow hunting obviously makes it more difficult than necessary (only thing harder would be jumping out of a tree and stabbing them with a spear). Many think more dificult = more skill.

Bob

 

[Turk]

I gotta use slugs in my Browinig Humpback where I'm going deer hunting in western Mn. this weekend.

Can't use my 30-06, but I'm bringing my brand new .357 for a close shot...

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: alreadygone
bow hunting obviously makes it more difficult than necessary (only thing harder would be jumping out of a tree and stabbing them with a spear). Many think more dificult = more skill.

Bob


Goo-goo-gaga.

 

[1sttruck]

One thing I like about the 30.06 is that it's probably the most versatile caliber, and is the best candidiate for someone who wants one rifle. I recall reading a comment by a gentleman who observed ammo sales at the main sporting goods store in Nairobi before they shut down big game hunting, and he said that by far the most popular round was the 30.06, as it was the most common caliber among locals too. The .375 H&H was a distant second.

You load it stiff with heavy bullets or download it with lighter ones, or even enjoy target shooting. My best load for target shooting was 52gr of Win760 with the Sierra 168 HPBT, a load that could probably be pressed into hunting use with a Barnes 165gr. I used the 190gr Sierra HPBT for the 600yd, but with a different powder.

 

[urrlord]

i think a 223 is a marginal round,it will work with a competant shot.i would not use one.i take most of my deer with a model 99 savage 250.magic on whitetails under 150 yds.i also have a 6.5 swede,303 brit,308 win all bolt guns.but i carry the 250 90% of the time.