21 5.7 Hemi; Valvoline EP 5w-20 3k mi

[OVERKILL]

Take Red Line High Performance - it's been formulated for "enthusiast use" - and recently it was reformulated. Not all Red Line oils have the same ester content, but I dare anyone to short trip one of their high ester content oils for like 6 months. Point being: the target audience isn't grocery getters, it's enthusiasts, racers, etc. I think that's why Mobil uses ANs in their "grocery getter" formulations. And it's flying off the shelves at walmart, especially EP in 0W-20 and 5W-30 viscosities. Meanwhile, Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline (except for VRP) is gathering dust, so is QS. It's funny that people either buy Mobil 1, or the cheapest Super Tech.

That's why I said "I've not looked at a Redline UOA for similar operating conditions, but it's possible it shows a similar trend to the OP's" in the chunk of the reply you are quoting. That's the oil I was thinking about that would likely result in similar behaviour to what the OP is experiencing. But, as I said, my quibble was with the universal nature of the statement, it was not outright disagreement.

Of course the old Mobil Tri-Syn formula had esters, but that was philosophically more similar to HPL than Redline.

Yes, but you let your engines warm up, and that is key. The HEMI likes to be warm. I said warm, not hot. No, the HEMI does not like to be hot. It just likes to be in that cozy "feel-good" zone and it will live a long and happy life. Come to think of it: most engines would.

Generally, yes, but not always. The wife isn't all that compassionate when it comes to her foot and invigorating that 5.7L during the winter months, but it doesn't appear to have a negative effect on the rate of iron uptake, which I assume is due to lubricant selection. It's a big old iron pushrod engine with a lot of swept ring area, funny valve angles and some other quirks, hence my preference for a robust additive package.

 

[buster]

Many approved oils actually greatly exceed the bare min specs for corrosion. Remember, you can have an approved oil that trounces specifications. Amsoil's deposit protection was way ahead and still is of the IIIH min.

 

[lakestone]

That's why I said "I've not looked at a Redline UOA for similar operating conditions, but it's possible it shows a similar trend to the OP's" in the chunk of the reply you are quoting. That's the oil I was thinking about that would likely result in similar behaviour to what the OP is experiencing. But, as I said, my quibble was with the universal nature of the statement, it was not outright disagreement.

Of course the old Mobil Tri-Syn formula had esters, but that was philosophically more similar to HPL than Redline.

Generally, yes, but not always. The wife isn't all that compassionate when it comes to her foot and invigorating that 5.7L during the winter months, but it doesn't appear to have a negative effect on the rate of iron uptake, which I assume is due to lubricant selection. It's a big old iron pushrod engine with a lot of swept ring area, funny valve angles and some other quirks, hence my preference for a robust additive package.

FCA has to be one of the funniest companies when it comes to specifying motor oils. Take differentials in Jeeps: well, it didn't fly apart on 75W-140, it'll be just fine on 75W-85. Sure it will, as long as you're a sub 200lbs individual, and the rest of your family combined weighs the same as you or less, and you don't tow anything more than a bike rack. Okay, okay, I am a bit over dramatic, but you get my point. With the 3.6L and the HEMI, same story: 5W-30 was too thick and "safe", with way too much margin for error. They moved down to 5W-20 and then 0W-20. Well, the HEMI saw 0W-20 in what, 2023, so very late. This is why people don't trust OEM recommended viscosities, because sometimes the vehicle is built for it, sometimes, it's not. And then there is the supplier issues: sometimes, especially parts coated with exotic materials, are not built to spec. Sometimes they "forget" to apply bearing cement to the rollers inside the lifters.

My point is: we don't know where the additional iron is coming from. My suggestion: dial up the viscosity (5W-30 fuel economy oil isn't that far above 0W-20), warm up the truck, do another oil test. If things improve, keep it up.

[Edit] - I've seen HEMIs with rust on the oil dipstick because it's so darn long and made of two pieces. Could the additional iron come from that?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing at all. Don't overthink things, don't do UOAs, just change your oil, and be happy.

I look at it this way: if you had three days left to live, would you spend two of them thinking and researching about what oil to use next, with your final day scrambling to find the oil, and perform the act of maintenance? Or would you spend the time with your loved ones? Oil ain't that important.

 

[RDY4WAR]

It's also possible that the iron wear isn't from rust but still caused by water/condensation. This ties into the discussion on esters, particularly esterized additives. ZDDP (an ester) is deactivated by water. If condensation causes water accumulation in sufficient amounts, ZDDP could be significantly hindered. This would also attribute to the higher iron wear rate. If you wanted to be really sure, ferrous spectroscopy would be needed. That would be just for curiosity though since, in either case, water is still most likely the intrusive bandit.

Polyols are more hydrolytically stable than diesters. Red Line's oils, particularly the HP and racing lines, use POE. It's common oil in methanol-fueled racing engines like Sprints and Top Alcohol / Pro Mod. (and nitro engines) POEs aren't going to suffer from water dilution nearly as much.

 

[OVERKILL]

FCA has to be one of the funniest companies when it comes to specifying motor oils. Take differentials in Jeeps: well, it didn't fly apart on 75W-140, it'll be just fine on 75W-85. Sure it will, as long as you're a sub 200lbs individual, and the rest of your family combined weighs the same as you or less, and you don't tow anything more than a bike rack. Okay, okay, I am a bit over dramatic, but you get my point. With the 3.6L and the HEMI, same story: 5W-30 was too thick and "safe", with way too much margin for error. They moved down to 5W-20 and then 0W-20. Well, the HEMI saw 0W-20 in what, 2023, so very late. This is why people don't trust OEM recommended viscosities, because sometimes the vehicle is built for it, sometimes, it's not. And then there is the supplier issues: sometimes, especially parts coated with exotic materials, are not built to spec. Sometimes they "forget" to apply bearing cement to the rollers inside the lifters.

My point is: we don't know where the additional iron is coming from. My suggestion: dial up the viscosity (5W-30 fuel economy oil isn't that far above 0W-20), warm up the truck, do another oil test. If things improve, keep it up.

[Edit] - I've seen HEMIs with rust on the oil dipstick because it's so darn long and made of two pieces. Could the additional iron come from that?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing at all. Don't overthink things, don't do UOAs, just change your oil, and be happy.

I look at it this way: if you had three days left to live, would you spend two of them thinking and researching about what oil to use next, with your final day scrambling to find the oil, and perform the act of maintenance? Or would you spend the time with your loved ones? Oil ain't that important.

I mean, it's not as bad as Ford spec'ing 5W-20 and 5W-50 for the same engine, lol. But yeah, the SRT engines share a huge amount of parts with the 5.7L and yet they spec a 0W-40, because there aren't enough of them made to worry about CAFE.

That said, the HEMI does have a very robust bottom end and in car and light truck trim, did always spec a 20 grade. Our 2006 Charger R/T spec'd 5W-20 for example. And going from 5W-20 -> 0W-20, it's the same grade, just forces you to use a synthetic oil. It's not like the Modular, where Ford moved from 5W-30 to 5W-20, though the HD HEMI's spec'd 5W-30 in the 2500/3500.

As somebody who has had the diff in their RAM rebuilt twice now under warranty (and it spec's 75W-140) I'm chuckling a bit at your choice of that example

 

[lakestone]

As somebody who has had the diff in their RAM rebuilt twice now under warranty (and it spec's 75W-140) I'm chuckling a bit at your choice of that example

If I had to make an assumption, I would say that the bearings failed in that diff... twice... However, it would be weird to fail once under warranty, but twice? I'd love to know more if you're able to share.

 

[OVERKILL]

If I had to make an assumption, I would say that the bearings failed in that diff... twice... However, it would be weird to fail once under warranty, but twice? I'd love to know more if you're able to share.

Thread '2019 RAM 1500 Sport update - 115,000km'

Jan 22, 2025

Previous threads:

Truck just rolled 115,000km (~71,500 miles). Last repair was the water pump (bottom link). Wife had a little bit of an "incident" and buggered up the right-rear wheel and shortly after, we started hearing noise from the...

• OVERKILL
• Replies: 36
• Forum: Vehicles

• 
• 

 

[lakestone]

Thread '2019 RAM 1500 Sport update - 115,000km'

Jan 22, 2025

Previous threads:

Truck just rolled 115,000km (~71,500 miles). Last repair was the water pump (bottom link). Wife had a little bit of an "incident" and buggered up the right-rear wheel and shortly after, we started hearing noise from the...

• OVERKILL
• Replies: 36
• Forum: Vehicles

• 
• 

So I guessed right. Did you run on the factory fill to 50K killmeters?

 

[The Critic]

You would need ferrous spectroscopy to determine abrasive iron from rust. I would bet it's rust though. API's standards for rust prevention are quite weak, as are most API standards. I'd recommend an oil with much stricter standards on rust and probably go up a grade.

Across the board, boosters are being made available to address the moisture/condensation issue...and it is naturally targeted towards HEV's and PHEV's.

Both Afton and Chevron (presumably from Oronite) are specifically advertising solutions for addressing this:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=518483&docFormat=PDF

https://www.aftonchemical.com/resou.../gf7-update/go-beyond-performance-with-afton/

 

[OVERKILL]

So I guessed right. Did you run on the factory fill to 50K killmeters?

Yep, factory fill to 50K, then dealer changed it, then it packed it in about 60,000km later, which, may have been due to my wife's incident, but not really sure.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

I keep getting high iron when i change the oil in the spring to get the winter oil out. It makes me wonder if how im using the truck in the winter is creating condensation in the engine and this is just "rust" as the truck doesn't really get warmed up. I live in Minnesota, its cold. In the winter i dont drive it much, and when i do its a short trip 7.5 each way to get my kid at his school. In the summer the truck sees most of its mileage towing a 6klb travel trailer. I change the oil twice a year, in the spring i get high iron, and in the fall after towing all summer give me normal iron levels.

Any thoughts on this reasoning?

View attachment 280575

View attachment 280576

Does it have an engine block heater on it? If not, have one installed and keep it plugged in during colder months. That could possibly help you with the condensation issue. Here is a website. https://phillipsandtemro.com/soluti...ctric-immersion-heaters/engine-block-heaters/

 

[OVERKILL]

Does it have an engine block heater on it? If not, have one installed and keep it plugged in during colder months. That could possibly help you with the condensation issue. Here is a website. https://phillipsandtemro.com/soluti...ctric-immersion-heaters/engine-block-heaters/

Good question. The ones sold in Canada do, though we've never used ours.

 

[lakestone]

Yep, factory fill to 50K, then dealer changed it, then it packed it in about 60,000km later, which, may have been due to my wife's incident, but not really sure.

What could she have possibly done to a solid axle?

 

[OVERKILL]

What could she have possibly done to a solid axle?

It's all discussed in the linked thread, go have a gander

 

[lakestone]

It's all discussed in the linked thread, go have a gander

Can you please give me the short version? I'm on break at work, it'll be over in about six minutes.

 

[OVERKILL]

Can you please give me the short version? I'm on break at work, it'll be over in about six minutes.

She kind of "lane changed" into the side of a car in a parking lot, ground the wheel into the car and then ripped the front end off it. Another member, who posted in the thread, believes that this is a plausible cause for the issue.

 

[lakestone]

She kind of "lane changed" into the side of a car in a parking lot, ground the wheel into the car and then ripped the front end off it. Another member, who posted in the thread, believes that this is a plausible cause for the issue.

Wowza!

If my wife did that I'd "upgrade" her to one of these:

 

[Plawan]

one thing i forgot to note, is i run a catch can, during the warm months it catches very little and what it does looks like oil, in winter its grabbing alot of watery looking milk shakish appearance stuff, its what led me to ponder is there just more water content in the block due to condensation in the winter months, then creating a trace rust due to all the sitting and light use.

Do a highway run for 30 min or so every couple weeks next winter and see if it improves. That could give ya an idea if it’s moisture.

 

[kitchbow]

I run valvoline extended protection high mileage 5w30 in my hemi ........ super smooth and quiet .....change every 6 months depending on driving and where I'm working ......

 

[ramcar]

For the sake of making any trend more obvious, I've put the OP's data in table format:

Date	Mileage	Fe PPM	Fe per 1,000 miles
5/9/2023	4,962	122	24.59
6/1/2023	938	32	34.12
7/24/2023	2,500	10	4
10/22/2023	3,137	18	5.74
5/14/2024	3,231	33	10.21
10/25/2024	3,968	21	5.29
5/7/2025	3,059	48	15

His short change spanning May/June 2023 is actually the worst in ppm per mile. The subsequent month flush in July seems to be much better, same with the one three months after that in October.

From October to May, iron comes back up, but nowhere near as bad as it had been back in 2023. May through to October run comes down, but it's still high relative to my truck and @nwjones18. Back up again over the winter, but still lower than 2023.

So yes, I think corrosion may be a factor during the winter runs, but that doesn't explain the spring 2023 run, which looks like you had something shedding some material, and that basically stopped being the case for the June/July run; the 3rd OCI. I don't think this one is explained by corrosion.

For the sake of making any trend more obvious, I've put the OP's data in table format:

Date	Mileage	Fe PPM	Fe per 1,000 miles
5/9/2023	4,962	122	24.59
6/1/2023	938	32	34.12
7/24/2023	2,500	10	4
10/22/2023	3,137	18	5.74
5/14/2024	3,231	33	10.21
10/25/2024	3,968	21	5.29
5/7/2025	3,059	48	15

His short change spanning May/June 2023 is actually the worst in ppm per mile. The subsequent month flush in July seems to be much better, same with the one three months after that in October.

From October to May, iron comes back up, but nowhere near as bad as it had been back in 2023. May through to October run comes down, but it's still high relative to my truck and @nwjones18. Back up again over the winter, but still lower than 2023.

So yes, I think corrosion may be a factor during the winter runs, but that doesn't explain the spring 2023 run, which looks like you had something shedding some material, and that basically stopped being the case for the June/July run; the 3rd OCI. I don't think this one is explained by corrosion.

Just did a 1164 mile change 95% of which was towing travel trailer, iron down to 13. Thats putting me about 11 FE per 1,000 miles. I'm gonna guess my end of summer change its gonna drop down even more. It seems to be the pattern now. No noise from the engine other than the injectors. Though at startup i'm starting to wonder if the manifolds are starting to go.

During the winter i will do a mid winter oil change and put in a block heater. Curious to see if there is an exponential curve of iron buildup in the winter.