20W50 + cold = blown filters?

M104

M104

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Jan 3, 2020
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Brittany 🇫🇷
Same engine and filter as mine yet i've never seen anything like that. The guy uses 20W50 and lives in Canada. In the first video he doesn't seem to realize that his filter shouldn't look that.


 
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A 20W-50 oil in the Canadian winter is probably like pumping ketchup. Send ketchup at a filter at 6 gpm, and I guarantee it's not going to be happy.
 
Well in theory the BP should not have let that happen. But we don't know how well or poorly he takes care of the car. Does he baby it until fully warmed up, or does he mash the loud pedal shortly after takeoff???But remember, thicker is always better, right? Isn't that the BITOG way?

All kidding aside, I have some questions about the second video.
- How is it that the filter "exploded" outward against the oil flow??? How did those large chunks of stuff end up in the filter housing? If the inside of the filter "exploded", why didn't the material end up plugging the oil inlet to the engine??? The debris from the "explosion" is OUTSIDE of the filter; that would infer that the oil flow was reversed (which we know can't be happening).
- How is it that the media isn't torn outward? For those chunks to get outside the filter media, they'd have to blow huge voids in the media, but I don't see any in the video.
- since he didn't change the filter (it was a "cheap" oil change service), how does he know the right Fram was used?
- since he didn't change the filter (it was a "cheap" oil change service), how does he know the Fram was installed correctly?

I'm not trying to defend Fram here, but it seems to me that too many unknowns are present to really blame the filter, and the video evidence seems contradictory to his statements.
 
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bluesmokertdi said:
define "cold"

most 20w50 oils have pour points down in the -20-30C range because of better base stocks, pour point depressants etc

https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/102efba9-7d48-49cd-98be-049558d3fac6.pdf
Click to expand...
Which isn’t really relevant in regards to the cranking and pumpability represented by the winter rating. That’s determined independently of the pour point. An oil with a 20W rating is still an oil with a 20W rating and quite inappropriate here apparently.
 
kschachn said:
Which isn’t really relevant in regards to the cranking and pump ability represented by the winter rating. That’s determined independently of the pour point. An oil with a 20W rating is still an oil with a 20W rating and quite inappropriate here apparently.
Click to expand...
oh I completely agree, my point is that the old 20w50 oils from the 80s had visible chunks of wax in them at a freezing temperatures

the new SP oils are a totally different animal
 
M119 said:
Same engine and filter as mine yet i've never seen anything like that. The guy uses 20W50 and lives in Canada. In the first video he doesn't seem to realize that his filter shouldn't look that.


Click to expand...

Who does oil changes at night. :unsure:
 
Here's the central tube out of my collapsed filter. This came out of my BMW motorcycle using 20W50 which was the correct spec even for -5 deg C. It only happened once as I now use thinner oil. Filters have been collapsing very occasionally for near 40 years in these bikes. Oil pressure is very high at a cold start and the standard oil pump is capable of circulating the entire contents of the sump in 10 seconds at 3400 RPM. They had to de-rate the oil pump for racing applications because it absorbed too much power.


Crushed Filter3.webp
 
dnewton3 said:
Well in theory the BP should not have let that happen. But we don't know how well or poorly he takes care of the car. Does he baby it until fully warmed up, or does he mash the loud pedal shortly after takeoff???But remember, thicker is always better, right? Isn't that the BITOG way?
Click to expand...
If the guy was running 20W-50 and the temperature was pretty low, it's possible on initial start-up that the oil pump pressure relief and/or the filter bypass valve didn't react fast enough to mitigate the initial delta-p pressure spike across the filter, and the filter collapsed. It would only take a second of delta-p over pressure to make the eCore center tube snap/break and then the media to collapse inward. It's possible the center tube design is borderline and can't that short extreme delta-p spikes when cold.

dnewton3 said:
All kidding aside, I have some questions about the second video.
- How is it that the filter "exploded" outward against the oil flow??? How did those large chunks of stuff end up in the filter housing? If the inside of the filter "exploded", why didn't the material end up plugging the oil inlet to the engine??? The debris from the "explosion" is OUTSIDE of the filter; that would infer that the oil flow was reversed (which we know can't be happening).
- How is it that the media isn't torn outward? For those chunks to get outside the filter media, they'd have to blow huge voids in the media, but I don't see any in the video.
- since he didn't change the filter (it was a "cheap" oil change service), how does he know the right Fram was used?
- since he didn't change the filter (it was a "cheap" oil change service), how does he know the Fram was installed correctly?

I'm not trying to defend Fram here, but it seems to me that too many unknowns are present to really blame the filter, and the video evidence seems contradictory to his statements.
Click to expand...
The 2nd video clearly shows that the filter "imploded" when he takes a camera shot down the center tube of the filter. The pieces of the broken center tube are in the bottom of the filter chamber because they fell out as he pulled the filter cartridge out. It's possible some pieces got swept into the oiling system when the filter collapsed while the engine was running.
 
In the top video , I believe the proper way is to insert the cartridge into the cap. On the Mann filters I used they had a line on them so you were shown when it was inserted in the cap all the way. It is easy to not get it all the way in. If the cartridge, which is now very tight in the cap, has to turn inside the cap to go further in to the correct depth, the force twists it or ruins it. The cap has to turn down on the thread.
In the second video he is complaining about it being a Chinese made Fram, with the broken plastic parts inside, but that one he said was installed by a shop. So it is unknown if they installed the element too short into the cap and ruined it. Or if they did it like he did, expecting the cartridge to spin in the cap all the way home.
If the element turns freely in the cap it wouldn’t matter about the insertion. On my Mercedes it was quite a tight fit into the cap. That’s why Mann put the line on the filter. This was also a Mercedes in the videos. I would venture to say it is all due to installer error in both videos.
 
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It's funny that he's blaming the failure on the Fram oil filter cartridge.

Now I have no opinion on Fram one way or the other (I run the factory branded OEM filter in all my vehicles), but if you pick a viscosity that is inappropriate for your temperature conditions, it's not necessarily the filter's fault if it fails. The bypass valve can only get the filter out of the way so fast. You try to pump thick enough oil through it, and you stand a pretty good chance of damaging the filter no matter what.
 
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