20W-50... whos uses it?

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Dr T.,


Thanks for the compliment!

I actually mistyped and meant to say I used 15W-50 Supersyn in my car as there is no Mobil 1 20W-50!

Duh!

Actually Jaguar specifies 20W-50 if you use dino oil in the car.

Plus living in Southern California during the summer with a 325HP Supercharged car is not easy on the oil.

Tim

P.S. I also have a 2002 Kawie Drifter 800 I use the Mobil 1 MX4T on and that stuff is great as well.
 
quote:

engine crankcase completely dry. No problems. No rebuild. Hooray for Castrol GTX. [/QB]

I have disliked Castrol for a long time, I nicknamed it The Liquid Crayon...but I can easily see how you would want to run nothing but Castrol for life! For instance I firmly believe that RedLine has saved me thousands in engine and transmission repairs.
Rob
 
quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
also an engine rebuilder i know who is_the_best builder of vw aircooled engines and porsche aircooled engines in the usa says 20w50 isd good for warm southern climate. he been doing it for 30 years, nothing but vw and porsche engines. he is a well respected guy and i trust his advice over anyone else.

You would trust his advice over people who do oil analysis and see exactly what kinds of engine wear they see with different viscosities?

Just because someone is good at building engines doesn't mean he's up on the latest technology in the world of oil.
 
"when you build a $15,000-$$20,000 volkswagen bug race motor i think the guy knows a thing or 2 about oil."

CRYPTOKID: That wouldn't be Gene Berg Enterprises would it? They do build the best air cooled VW engines around. I'd never doubt their credentials in that area. I do wonder about their knowledge of lubrication though. The last time I checked them out, they were still touting the same line from over ten years ago that synthetic was bad for air cooled engines. They say it does not carry heat away from the engine internals, a critical property for an oil in an air cooled engine but not true for synthetics. The better group 3 and up oils will withstand the higher temps of an air cooled engine than their dino cousins.
 
no,
gene breg and co are weird on engine ideas.

the no synthetic thing
low compression is better
semihemi heads are better
etc....
 
I use 20w50 in several of my vehicles. Mostly depending on what the manufacturer says, but recommend them for vehicules that used 15w40 originally and now have 100,000+ km and consume some.
Most of the engines of the 80's were designed for 20w50 and it is still recommended today.
Looking at the Chek Chart publication (USA)for the year 2000 (haven't sent me an updated one yet) I see 20w50 recommended for:
BMW until 1996 above -10C
Some non-turbo Chrysler products til 1995 above 0C
All Daihatsu models above -12C
Most Hyundai's above 0C
All Isuzu, Passport, Trooper, Acura SLX above -12C
Impulse thru 1993 above -12
Jaguar 1993 thru 1997 above 0C and above -10 for earlier models
Land Rover 1991-1996 above 0C
All Nissan's above 10C
Porsche mineral oil above -10C
SAAB "in hot climates"
Subaru "Warm climate & HD operation"
ALL Suzuki except "Swift" above -10C
Volkwagen thru 1995 above -10C, 1996 thru 1999 above -15C all temps on newer models 10w50 or 10w60
I have a few charts from owners manuals (for non-US vehicles) on my site (Toyota allows 20w50 in my 2002 pickup above -7C)
 
novadude,

Valvoline has dropped the huge amount of Zinc they used in the past and now use newer ashless AW's and FM's along with a different anti-foam additive in their formulations. The oil has a good detergent/dispersent package that will run on the street well. All their VR-1 oils have a TBN of 12. I ran it in my Tow Truck for about 200k and all was well when sold.

Every State has some kinda VW/Porche guru
tongue.gif
To try to understand how one of these motors can run a high VI oil FIRST they need to understand why both engine cases utilize a dual bypass in the oil system of a VW or Porsche Aircooled Motor and how they work. I would not use a 20/50 in these motors,actually I would use a straight 30,40 or 50 wt depending on the climate. A stocker typically holds 7 lbs of pressure with straight 30wt at hot idle with the oil light blinking
wink.gif


It has been too long since the last 450 +HP Autocraft based Turbo Drag motor I built but I believe they only used one bypass and it is adjustable via a threaded bolt,alot like the aftermarket offerings for both the dual bypass case and the pre 1600 VW dual bypass case.You can dial in the low and high pressure bypass .The Autocraft case was or is not a streetable piece though.

Gene Berg early on did write the book on modding the VW motors,problem is Gene is not around anylonger to keep up with new Technologies and of course others have built some motors to beat Berg stuff of the 60/s 70/s and 80's. A race motor builder is not King of the Hill long these days,,someone with more money will always come along and beat ya
smile.gif
And thats what it's all about,going fast costs,how fast do you want to go???

Are there still reasons to use a 20/50 in the USA in other engines? You bet! Depends though on engine design and how the motor is used though and too many variables to post..now ya'll can fire away!
tongue.gif


[ February 08, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
A lot of engines recommended a 50 weight in summer.
Many of which are still made w/ the exact same clearances except they recommend a 5w-30
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It's clear that modern oil recommendations are designed not exclusively with engine protection in mind.

Yes, a 50 weight is a thick oil but lets remember that almost the entire USA sees HOT summers.
HOT that is by the standrads of other idustrialized countires, (UK, Ger,Jap etc).

In hot summer climates, the engine internals never truly cool down, so no need to have a thin oil for engine start-up.

And even if you didneed thiness, remember 20weights were considered winter oils not so long ago and a 20w-50 starts up like one.

Fred...
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PS: To further stir the pot: remember folks a 40 weight is a medium viscosity.
 
Even when the ambient temperature outside is 110F, do you really think the oil temperature inside your engine is going to be that much hotter than it is for someone who lives in a slightly less hot summer climate at 85F? Probably not much difference in actual operating temps between the two (in a modern engine with a properly working cooling system that is)
 
Your right Patman the difference isn';t all that large certainly not significant.

But back in the day, the only reason PPL went thinner than say a 40 weight, was to make it possible to have as multivis wasn't able to support a large spread, so u had to lose some hard running protection.

BUT since nowadays you can have great start-up performance with a 40 weight (0w-40's, 5w-40).

Why even bother with a 30 weight?

Maybe the entire class of 30 weight oils is obsolete nowadays and the only reason its getting play now is not closer bearings
rolleyes.gif
but for CAFE reasons only.

The only place, I envision for 30 weight oils, is as specialty oil for 0w-30 applications only, when PPL want great start-up but are uncomfortable with a 0w-40.
Above applies to full syn oils only, but even for non syn ,it seems that xw-30 oils need only be used in winter, since in summer the engine never cools down enough to need a start-up oil so thin you are willing to compromise running protection to achieve it.

Fred...
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[ February 08, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]
 
I currently use Shell Formula 20w50 in a 92 Cadillac Deville with 4.9l pushrod v-8. The car has 156,000 miles. This car was the reason I initially searched the internet for information on oil. I switched from Valvoline all climate 10w30 to the Shell 20w50 to stop a connecting rod knock at startup and to reduce consumption. Both problems have been fixed and the car has never run better. I used to get about 2000 miles per quart on the 10w30 and it has risen to about 4500 miles per quart on the 20w50. I switched to Shell because of its much higher flash point than any other brand readily available in this area. This was with SJ oils and the listed difference is not the same with the SL oils.
 
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