2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid

The Critic

The Critic

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If they can pull this off w/o losing cargo space and provide 25 mi of range (with a 5-6 hr charge time on 120V), this will be a great commuter car for those of us in urban areas.
Quote
PLANO, Texas (October 10, 2019) - Toyota teased today what will become the most powerful RAV4 yet - the 2021 RAV4 plug-in hybrid. Bringing with it a new color, Supersonic Red, the teaser image of the RAV4 plug-in hybrid highlights the new plug-in hybrid vehicle's (PHV) surprising performance capabilities. Unlike any other, the new RAV4 plug-in hybrid will be celebrated by its spirited acceleration, nimble handling and impeccable style. Toyota will debut the Toyota RAV4 plug-in hybrid during the Los Angeles Auto Show media days, on November 20, 2019 at the Toyota booth in South Hall at the Los Angeles Convention Center.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/2021-rav4-plug-in-powers-up-for-2019-los-angeles-auto-show/
 
Originally Posted by The Critic
If they can pull this off w/o losing cargo space and provide 25 mi of range (with a 5-6 hr charge time on 120V), this will be a great commuter car for those of us in urban areas.
Only in this county do people need an SUV to commute in. Maybe if you drive a carpool with 3 or 4 passengers but around here most people even in full size versions are driving alone.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by The Critic
If they can pull this off w/o losing cargo space and provide 25 mi of range (with a 5-6 hr charge time on 120V), this will be a great commuter car for those of us in urban areas.
Only in this county do people need an SUV to commute in. Maybe if you drive a carpool with 3 or 4 passengers but around here most people even in full size versions are driving alone.
Aside from big SUVs and trucks being fashionable, I think the proliferation of these bigger vehicles is self-perpetuating. Mass wins in a crash, so if my wife is driving on undivided highways, I want her to be in a heavier vehicle. Being in a truck vs. a Honda Fit could be the difference between life and death. Also, our dog's crate wouldn't fit in a sedan.
 
I hope its more than 25 miles of range given they will be 8 years behind Mitsubishi on this. I would like to see closer to 40.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I am waiting for Toyota to go electric. The RAV4 would sell like hotcakes.
Didn't you on the wrong coast already get a RAV4 EV that nobody else could get? Yes you did, from 97 to 03 then 2012 to 2014.
 
Originally Posted by czbrian
I hope its more than 25 miles of range given they will be 8 years behind Mitsubishi on this. I would like to see closer to 40.
25 is more than enough for most commutes. The larger you go, the longer it will take to recharge on 120v. Being able to recharge in 6hr on 120 (with the current Prius Prime) and still being able to deliver 25 mi is a huge selling point.
 
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I am waiting for Toyota to go electric. The RAV4 would sell like hotcakes.
Didn't you on the wrong coast already get a RAV4 EV that nobody else could get? Yes you did, from 97 to 03 then 2012 to 2014.
They had a Tesla drivetrain. My next door neighbor had one. They loved it. I'm not sure, but it might have been lease only. They now have a Bolt and a Lexus NX Hybrid.
 
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by czbrian
I hope its more than 25 miles of range given they will be 8 years behind Mitsubishi on this. I would like to see closer to 40.
25 is more than enough for most commutes. The larger you go, the longer it will take to recharge on 120v. Being able to recharge in 6hr on 120 (with the current Prius Prime) and still being able to deliver 25 mi is a huge selling point.
+1. And more kWh = higher purchase price. That said, a rav4 is of only marginal utility to many folks. I hope they can do the same with the highlander/RX, and Honda does the same with the MDX. Hybrids for road use AWD make tons of sense to me, and pHEVs in SUVs where there's more floor space and weight capability make a lot of sense too. 25 miles in a highlander would need a bigger pack than for a RAV, but it would be sufficient for most use. Even if one transited in eV mode one way, and regular hybrid mode the other, that's not a bad setup.
 
25 miles isn't going to cut it. Not in AWD climates, anyways. 25 miles would be maximum, take a third off that for temps below 32 degrees. Use the electric heat? Another 50% off that. You're down to about 8.5 miles right there. Sorry Toyota, it's a sound idea but it needs more range.Lots more. 40 miles would be much closer, 50 even better.
 
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by czbrian
I hope its more than 25 miles of range given they will be 8 years behind Mitsubishi on this. I would like to see closer to 40.
25 is more than enough for most commutes. The larger you go, the longer it will take to recharge on 120v. Being able to recharge in 6hr on 120 (with the current Prius Prime) and still being able to deliver 25 mi is a huge selling point.
True but having driven a 2014 Volt for 75k miles and now the Outlander PHEV for 15k I can't get too excited about that range for my driving habits. The Volt was fine but the Outlander leaves me running on gas sometimes when running errands on the weekend. 25 sounds good but like the above poster mentioned, that 25 miles of quoted range is shorter in winter or at higher freeway speeds (especially in an less aerodynamic suv). It's nice to see Toyota offer it but just feels late (if it is actually only 25).
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by The Critic
If they can pull this off w/o losing cargo space and provide 25 mi of range (with a 5-6 hr charge time on 120V), this will be a great commuter car for those of us in urban areas.
Only in this county do people need an SUV to commute in. Maybe if you drive a carpool with 3 or 4 passengers but around here most people even in full size versions are driving alone.
If you have left the country recently and been elsewhere CUV's are extremely popular from 1st to third world. It is not just the USA. I agree a large SUV to commute(far) by yourself owning multiple vehicles is expensive too.
 
Originally Posted by 14Accent
25 miles isn't going to cut it. Not in AWD climates, anyways. 25 miles would be maximum, take a third off that for temps below 32 degrees. Use the electric heat? Another 50% off that. You're down to about 8.5 miles right there. Sorry Toyota, it's a sound idea but it needs more range.Lots more. 40 miles would be much closer, 50 even better.
Toyota has not announced the range of vehicle and 25 miles was thrown out by someone (OP) who lives in well above 32F client year round which is a great range for them personally. Sorry Toyota I am out there a little?
 
Originally Posted by 14Accent
25 miles isn't going to cut it. Not in AWD climates, anyways. 25 miles would be maximum, take a third off that for temps below 32 degrees. Use the electric heat? Another 50% off that. You're down to about 8.5 miles right there. Sorry Toyota, it's a sound idea but it needs more range.Lots more. 40 miles would be much closer, 50 even better.
Heat use kills hybrid MPGs. It's just the reality of things. To think that one is going to stay all electric in any heat use scenario to me is silly. But at the same time, you're not doing worse than a standard ICE... if anything, you'll reserve the range in PHEV mode for a later time. Not a bad thing, since batteries don't charge properly in cold weather, and so staying off of them (including for regen) is prudent for longevity. If one is so concerned about staying all electric in all conditions, then PHEV isn't for them. Time for the extreme added baggage and liability of a BEV.. Practically speaking though, a PHEV is the best of all worlds. But to expect high range is to expect high cost and complexity, no thanks. Just let me commute my 8 miles during 9 months out of the year on battery, and I'll burn the gas I would in any other embodiment of the vehicle for the other three, while still delivering higher MPGs....
 
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me! EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.
 
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me! EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.
You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more? While going some distance on battery only is neat, it's not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas. I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that's high, btw. Assuming it takes 20kWh, that's what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile? But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile? So why do we care if we can't make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me! EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.
You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more? While going some distance on battery only is neat, it's not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas. I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that's high, btw. Assuming it takes 20kWh, that's what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile? But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile? So why do we care if we can't make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.
The issue is the range compared to the Volt plug-in hybrid for example which is over 40 miles. Plugging in every 12 miles would get old pretty quick.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me! EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.
You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more? While going some distance on battery only is neat, it's not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas. I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that's high, btw. Assuming it takes 20kWh, that's what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile? But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile? So why do we care if we can't make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.
The issue is the range compared to the Volt plug-in hybrid for example which is over 40 miles. Plugging in every 12 miles would get old pretty quick.
The problem with the Volt is that it will take 12 hrs (or more) to charge via 120v. Few of us are home for more than 12 hours at a time on the weekdays. The charge time of the current Toyota plug-in hybrids is 5.5-6 hr, which is more realistic. But because of that, the range is shorter. The RAV4 hybrid gets 40mpg as it currently stands so even when you run out of pure EV range, the fuel economy is still terrific.
 
25 miles would work for my situation, but it seems short for the majority of buyers. Lets not forget range degradation over time. I could do all EV miles in this. Or i could just do my 4 mile trips in literally anything else and not really feel the pinch of fuel. It should be sold as 30 miles and possibly a 60 mile option.
 
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