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2019 Chevrolet 3500HD 6.6 Duramax, Chevron Delo 600 ADF, 3k miles on oil, 5k on motor.
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Where's the zinc? 
Aren't HDEO's high in zinc?
Aren't HDEO's high in zinc?Delo ADF uses a new-fangled low ash additive package to help reduce DPF clogging. Wild to see in an HDEO, ain't it?Where's the zinc?
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So it really only has 161 ppm of zinc? What a trip! Lots of moly though.
Actually it has even less. That's probably just leftover from whatever oil was in the sump before. Here's a VOA of this oil:
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The phosphorus, zinc, and magnesium are likely left over from the Amsoil of the previous change.
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What do you think of the low tbns on these oils? Obviously plenty of additive left. Not knowledgeable enough about this stuff to know if these new additive packages affect how TBN is determined, or how accurate a TBN number even is. Thoughts?
I've wondered the same thing. I think you're probably the first person on this board to post a UOA using this oil and I'd be pretty interested to see how the TBN holds up.
Zn free HD engine oil has been around for decades. Typically used in large engines such as locomotives, gen sets and natural gas fuelled pipe line pumps.
With this oil TBN will be low always. There just isn't the metallic additive pack in it that the TBN test acid can react to. A lower reaction gives a lower number (and I am simplifying this a lot). Whatever Chevron is using just doesn't react in a TBN test as much..
Too bad Blackstone doesn't test for Oxidation and Nitration. I doubt it would be bad on this oil given the low miles but stretched out to 20,000 mi (our Duramax drain interval Delo XSP) I would be curious to see it. Our oil lab (Polaris) has told me that with newer oils, TBN isn't really the gold standard to tell you how things are. We test for TAN and TBN numbers but Polaris keeps stressing the Oxidation numbers as the real test of extended drains. Chevron has also indicated to me that if I use this stuff I will need to look at my oil samples differently. When I asked "how" they just said don't look at TBN so much anymore. The other thing that gives me a little pause on this oil is the pour point numbers and cold flow characteristics. Again, likely will be OK but compared to normal Delo it is quite a bit less (600ADF is -30C, I believe and reg Delo is -43).
That said, I have some new Duramax's that will be on the road hopefully in the late fall and I really want to use this oil to improve DPF performance after 300,000 miles.
Thanks for posting the results...please keep doing!!
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On oxidation, this user posted this last year but I have no idea where he got the info and haven't found it anywhere else.
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blingo
The ZDDP is said to deplete rapidly, at least faster than oxidation and AN / TBN numbers alone seem to indicate and more connected to iron rising I think. No direct comparisons, but T6 Multi Vehicle does quite well with its 800ppm level https://www.shell.de/geschaefts-und...shell-rimula-r6-lme-plus-product-brochure.pdf
and young Delo 600 ADF ultra low SA oil – without any specifics unfortunately – was said to have gone twice the distance (720h) in testing. It should become more and more difficult to try predictions looking at Phosphorous levels
dnewton3
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The most surprising thing to me is this truck is two years old but only has 5k miles on it; it doesn't get out much, does it? There's nothing we can really glean here about the engine except that it's nearly new.
As for the lube, well, these new formulations are going to cause the avg BITOGer some confusion. There have always been ways to construct a very good lube without high amounts of zinc, phos, magnesium, calcium and such, but these alternate ways are more expensive. For decades we've enjoyed a reasonably cheap way to protect engines by dosing lubes with inexpensive additives. But now, because of exhaust treatment (cats, DPFs) the industry now will have to implement different ways to protect both the engine AND the treatment systems; this will drive more expensive add-packs and also seem peculiar to the average UOA onlooker.
Many of these alternate add-pack entites will either not show up at all in a UOA, or they will be in a manner where the typical drive-by UOA reader will be confused or misled. For example, TBN won't be nearly as easy to decry as a point of panic-induced OCIs. Zn will be obscured and at such low levels people will convulse from withdrawl; same goes for the other "common" elements we'd normally expect to see.
Here's what eventually will happen, over the long term, in regard to using UOAs. People will have to focus on the wear metals and not the additives, because many of the additives will be non-existent or in such low numbers they will be difficult to see subtle changes. As I have preached for years and years on this site, people should quit looking at the inputs and focus on the outputs. Don't worry about what's in the bottle; look at what comes out of the crankcase in terms of wear control and under the valve cover in terms of cleanliness.
What goes into the bottle is very important; that's never going to change. But we're not going to be able to see the product well enough in a VOA for much longer because the proprietary add-packs aren't going to show up, or if they do, they'll be misleading. For example, there are multiple ways to construct ZDDP, but they all show up as "zinc". You cannot discern the ZDDP blend with OA, so you might as well learn to quit worrying about ZDDP in a VOA/UOA. Same goes for other additives that simply don't react with the typical ICP or other UOA methods.
LOOK AT THE WEAR DATA AND CONTAMINATION DATA! That will tell you how well the lube is doing it's job.
I'll step down from my soap-box now.
As for the lube, well, these new formulations are going to cause the avg BITOGer some confusion. There have always been ways to construct a very good lube without high amounts of zinc, phos, magnesium, calcium and such, but these alternate ways are more expensive. For decades we've enjoyed a reasonably cheap way to protect engines by dosing lubes with inexpensive additives. But now, because of exhaust treatment (cats, DPFs) the industry now will have to implement different ways to protect both the engine AND the treatment systems; this will drive more expensive add-packs and also seem peculiar to the average UOA onlooker.
Many of these alternate add-pack entites will either not show up at all in a UOA, or they will be in a manner where the typical drive-by UOA reader will be confused or misled. For example, TBN won't be nearly as easy to decry as a point of panic-induced OCIs. Zn will be obscured and at such low levels people will convulse from withdrawl; same goes for the other "common" elements we'd normally expect to see.
Here's what eventually will happen, over the long term, in regard to using UOAs. People will have to focus on the wear metals and not the additives, because many of the additives will be non-existent or in such low numbers they will be difficult to see subtle changes. As I have preached for years and years on this site, people should quit looking at the inputs and focus on the outputs. Don't worry about what's in the bottle; look at what comes out of the crankcase in terms of wear control and under the valve cover in terms of cleanliness.
What goes into the bottle is very important; that's never going to change. But we're not going to be able to see the product well enough in a VOA for much longer because the proprietary add-packs aren't going to show up, or if they do, they'll be misleading. For example, there are multiple ways to construct ZDDP, but they all show up as "zinc". You cannot discern the ZDDP blend with OA, so you might as well learn to quit worrying about ZDDP in a VOA/UOA. Same goes for other additives that simply don't react with the typical ICP or other UOA methods.
LOOK AT THE WEAR DATA AND CONTAMINATION DATA! That will tell you how well the lube is doing it's job.
I'll step down from my soap-box now.
I wouldn’t recommend running this oil in Mongolia (3000ppm S) or even Russia (300ppm, though 10ppm sometimes available). Or any of a list of countries in Africa, Asia, or South and Mesoamerica with sulfur up to 5-10000ppm in the fuel.
TBN isn’t measured by the presence of any particular component, whether organometallic or not. It’s measured by ability to buffer a strong acid: HCl. Which is a very simple proxy for the actual troublemakers in ICEs, sulfuric/sulfurous and nitric/nitrous acids. The former forms by combustion of sulfur in fuel and the latter by oxidation of nitrogen in air, and presence in oil is exacerbated by EGR though EGR is intended to decrease production rate by lowering peak combustion temperature.
Conclusion is that this is a ULSD oil ONLY.
TBN isn’t measured by the presence of any particular component, whether organometallic or not. It’s measured by ability to buffer a strong acid: HCl. Which is a very simple proxy for the actual troublemakers in ICEs, sulfuric/sulfurous and nitric/nitrous acids. The former forms by combustion of sulfur in fuel and the latter by oxidation of nitrogen in air, and presence in oil is exacerbated by EGR though EGR is intended to decrease production rate by lowering peak combustion temperature.
Conclusion is that this is a ULSD oil ONLY.
This is a pretty nice UOA in terms of wear metals for an oil run on a practically new engine. I would have expected more iron, aluminum, lead and copper.
Grüezi,
I'm sorry, I think I didn't actually mean to focus so much on oxidation there (personally I can leave it all to the semi automatically oil changing rotary car and I'm about as interested in the ultra low ash AW-performance as in oxidative stability – so in any case I didn't want to make it some twice-the-mileage oil compared to the already enduring Rimula R6 LME Plus / Rotella MV).
Either way, I can't remember having seen any data. It had been PR more or less to the tune of https://www.truckinginfo.com/344149/new-chevron-engine-oil-reduces-dpf-ash-by-60 or so where i find this now:
"
Moreover, according to Willem van Dam, manager, product development for Chevron, the new oil has shown “remarkable” performance in a series of OEM validation tests, including doubling the length of the T13 Volvo Engine Oil Oxidation Test. “We ran that test for 720 hours without any component failures or undue wear,” van Dam noted. “And that is really quite incredible.”
Delo 600 ADF meets or exceeds API CK-4 & OEM specifications, van Dam added, noting that the oil has demonstrated excellent oxidation stability in industry, OEM and field tests, providing the opportunity to extend engine oil drain intervals. Sharing the durability legacy of Delo 400 products, Delo 600 ADF also has delivered excellent valve-train wear protection and piston deposit performance.
"
Thanks for your interest in this oil & nix für ungut!
Nach Diktat verreist,
blingo
I'm sorry, I think I didn't actually mean to focus so much on oxidation there (personally I can leave it all to the semi automatically oil changing rotary car and I'm about as interested in the ultra low ash AW-performance as in oxidative stability – so in any case I didn't want to make it some twice-the-mileage oil compared to the already enduring Rimula R6 LME Plus / Rotella MV).
Either way, I can't remember having seen any data. It had been PR more or less to the tune of https://www.truckinginfo.com/344149/new-chevron-engine-oil-reduces-dpf-ash-by-60 or so where i find this now:
"
Moreover, according to Willem van Dam, manager, product development for Chevron, the new oil has shown “remarkable” performance in a series of OEM validation tests, including doubling the length of the T13 Volvo Engine Oil Oxidation Test. “We ran that test for 720 hours without any component failures or undue wear,” van Dam noted. “And that is really quite incredible.”
Delo 600 ADF meets or exceeds API CK-4 & OEM specifications, van Dam added, noting that the oil has demonstrated excellent oxidation stability in industry, OEM and field tests, providing the opportunity to extend engine oil drain intervals. Sharing the durability legacy of Delo 400 products, Delo 600 ADF also has delivered excellent valve-train wear protection and piston deposit performance.
"
Thanks for your interest in this oil & nix für ungut!
Nach Diktat verreist,
blingo
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