2018 Subaru Outback

[mclasser]

I'm in the market for a new car and am looking at the '18 Outback 2.5i Premium. It seems to be a good value car and the 4WD system is well-suited for my neck of the woods. As a BITOGer, I'm naturally into maintenance and I literally jumped in my chair when I saw the oil filter was located right the at top of the engine bay

. I perused the manual and it takes 5.1 qts of 0w20 full syn, which is nice since that's what my Pilot takes as well. It has a CVT which I believe requires a drain & fill @60k.

I don't have any experience with Subarus. I read the CVTs are better designed than before. How true is this? And do these cars still eat head gaskets? How is Subaru reliability in relation to Honda & Toyota? I buy my cars to drive into the ground so dependability is a must.

 

[PimTac]

Subaru is an excellent brand. They did have engine issues up till around 2015. Those have been settled out and fixed. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore. I’ve heard that with the filter on top plus the ground Clearance, oil changes are super easy. Subaru vehicles will last for many many miles as long as they are maintained well.

As for the cvt, I’ve heard they are great in that regard. They are chain driven instead of metal belt IIRC.

 

[JayhawkRoy]

We own a 2011 2.5i Outback. No issues with it. This is our third Subaru and it has done well. Changed CVT fluid at 100K, when timing belt was done. None of our three Subarus had head gasket issues. Now at about 122K miles driven.

 

[skyactiv]

I owned an 07' WRX which I bought new. It had 136K on it when I sold it.
It was the most reliable car I ever owned and I doubt I'll ever a car as reliable as it was to the 136K mile mark.

The only issue I had with it was the clutch slave cylinder going out. It was a cheap and easy repair as I was able to order a rebuild kit
at a Subaru dealer for under $20.

Side note of interest:

The front rotors and brake pads were always short lived on it however. Subaru only used the specific brake calipers it had for the 06' & 07' model years. Other than them being marked Subaru, the front calipers were actually the same ones used on the Nissan 300Z for awhile years prior and you could actually change the pads with your bare hands and not a single tool.
Pop a clip, pull the pins, remove the flat spring, wiggle the pads 1/2 way out, spread the pads apart to push the pistons in, remove the pads and reassemble.

 

[sopususer]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Subaru is an excellent brand. They did have engine issues up till around 2015. Those have been settled out and fixed. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore. I’ve heard that with the filter on top plus the ground Clearance, oil changes are super easy. Subaru vehicles will last for many many miles as long as they are maintained well.

As for the cvt, I’ve heard they are great in that regard. They are chain driven instead of metal belt IIRC.



Agree with everything you said except for what I colored red. Short of Audi, I don't see any other awd systems that are even close to Subaru. Owned Subies since 1995. As far as the family is concerned you can't beat them for reliability, economy, and performance. If you need awd for where you live, that's just gravy. Highly recommend!

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Subaru is an excellent brand. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore.
Agree with everything you said except for what I colored red. Short of Audi, I don't see any other awd systems that are even close to Subaru. Owned Subies since 1995. As far as the family is concerned you can't beat them for reliability, economy, and performance. If you need awd for where you live, that's just gravy. Highly recommend!


There are better designs than Subaru's. I like the one in my '18 Equinox:
From http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/equinox/2018/2018-chevrolet-equinox-first-look-review/
"Even the optional all-wheel-drive system gets a makeover, moving to the driver-selectable GKN design in use on the GMC Acadia. Its system of clutches allows the driveshaft to be disconnected, greatly reducing friction and rotational inertia during those times when drive to the rear is not required."

GKN also designed the AWD system on the hot rod Focus RS:
https://www.gkn.com/en/our-divisions/gkn-driveline/case-studies/2016/focus-rs/

I hear the current Cherokee AWD system also keeps the driveshaft completely still until needed too. And Audi's as well.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Subaru is an excellent brand. They did have engine issues up till around 2015. Those have been settled out and fixed. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore. I’ve heard that with the filter on top plus the ground Clearance, oil changes are super easy. Subaru vehicles will last for many many miles as long as they are maintained well.

As for the cvt, I’ve heard they are great in that regard. They are chain driven instead of metal belt IIRC.



Agree with everything you said except for what I colored red. Short of Audi, I don't see any other awd systems that are even close to Subaru. Owned Subies since 1995. As far as the family is concerned you can't beat them for reliability, economy, and performance. If you need awd for where you live, that's just gravy. Highly recommend!





I’ll agree to disagree. With the predictive and artificial intelligence used in brands like Mazda and Kia and Audi, the field has leveled somewhat. This is not meant however as a putdown on the Subaru system. It is still a top notch awd System from all aspects.

 

[bsmithwins]

Subaru 2013 Impreza w/the manual transmission here. No problems and no expenses besides engine and gear oil, plus tires so far.

Timing since 2012 (depending on the engine model) or so is on timing chains instead of belts, eliminating belts as a maintenance point.

BSW

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Subaru is an excellent brand. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore.
Agree with everything you said except for what I colored red. Short of Audi, I don't see any other awd systems that are even close to Subaru. Owned Subies since 1995. As far as the family is concerned you can't beat them for reliability, economy, and performance. If you need awd for where you live, that's just gravy. Highly recommend!


There are better designs than Subaru's. I like the one in my '18 Equinox:
From http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/equinox/2018/2018-chevrolet-equinox-first-look-review/
"Even the optional all-wheel-drive system gets a makeover, moving to the driver-selectable GKN design in use on the GMC Acadia. Its system of clutches allows the driveshaft to be disconnected, greatly reducing friction and rotational inertia during those times when drive to the rear is not required."

GKN also designed the AWD system on the hot rod Focus RS:
https://www.gkn.com/en/our-divisions/gkn-driveline/case-studies/2016/focus-rs/

I hear the current Cherokee AWD system also keeps the driveshaft completely still until needed too. And Audi's as well.

Do they get better mileage than the Outback? No, so why bother with all the complexity? I think subaru's biggest advantage is that there engine is still longitudinal and they aren't tacking on AWD to a FWD platform, so they don't have the power transferred 90 deg which seems to be a weak point on a few tack on AWD systems.

 

[NormanBuntz]

I had a leased 2015 Outback 2.5i Premium for two years. I had zero problems and sold it only because I needed something bigger for long distance travel. With the filter topside, buy a Fumoto drain valve and your oil changes will take 10-15 minutes max. Intervals still should be 6K miles.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I like the front-to-back engine configuration on Subarus. If i was more open to the idea of a CVT when I bought my car I would have likely got an outback. The more I read about Subaru CVTs, the more I think I should have got one. It even seems like they are rebuildable if they fail and are certainly more serviceable than other brands.

Nothing in a transverse engine for a AWD system to me says forethought to me ; only afterthought.

Long gone (at least in the NA subarus) is the EJ head gasket blower engine. FB series seem to occasionally have oil consumption, though.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I like the front-to-back engine configuration on Subarus. If i was more open to the idea of a CVT when I bought my car I would have likely got an outback. The more I read about Subaru CVTs, the more I think I should have got one. It even seems like they are rebuildable if they fail and are certainly more serviceable than other brands.

Nothing in a transverse engine for a AWD system to me says forethought to me ; only afterthought.

Long gone (at least in the NA subarus) is the EJ head gasket blower engine. FB series seem to occasionally have oil consumption, though.

In the Outback the CVT tows 2700 or 3000lb depending on the engine, and I'd be curious to know what if any differences there are with the 4 cyl drive train between the Forester and Outback.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Do they get better mileage than the Outback? No, so why bother with all the complexity?
Not true. Fuelly.com reports a 2 MPG delta over hundreds of fill-ups, Equinox gets better MPG.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think subaru's biggest advantage is that there engine is still longitudinal and they aren't tacking on AWD to a FWD platform, so they don't have the power transferred 90 deg which seems to be a weak point on a few tack on AWD systems.

Subaru has a front longitudinal engine that must turn power 90 degrees to operate the front wheels (bevel-crown), and also turn 90 degrees again at the back wheels too. This is inefficient when AWD is not needed, as in 99% of the miles a vehicle drives. The point is the Equinox, Cherokee, and some Audi's idle the driveshaft 99% of the time when AWD is not needed, thereby running as a FWD car with a transverse engine (no 90 degree turn of power).

 

[Trav]

Subaru is a great car and as a AWD vehicle superior to others except some Audi to which it is equal. Honda isn't in the same class in any regard, Toyota at least has build quality, Honda couldn't build a high quality AWD golf cart IMO.

 

[RedOakRanch]

My wife and I love our 2016 Limited. It is just shy of 48k miles and has had no issues. I wasn't sold on full time AWD when we bought it but I am now. It's superior to my Mom's 2017 CRV AWD. It only used a half qt of oil so far but that was crossing AZ twice at 80mph while fully loaded so I'm not calling it a burner yet! I love getting 32mpg driving at regular speed with 8.7" of ground clearance and AWD and great interior room.

 

[JTK]

I can't speak for the Outback, but I have owned a 2012 Legacy premium, 2.5i CVT, a 2014 XV Crosstrek 5spd and currently a 2016 Forester, base model, 2.5i CVT. The Forester is by far my favorite of the 3 and is ideal for me. Versatile, capable, practical, nice to drive and be in and great fuel economy. It's not good looking, super smooth or quiet. A cold start is an ugly sounding adventure, but doesn't prove to be detrimental based on history of how long these drivetrains can go.

Oil changes are a snap indeed. No ramps needed for an outback, forester or XV Crosstrek and super easy oil filter change.

In regards to the CVT fluid change, I'd have to check my manual, but I believe Subaru calls it "lifetime" with maybe a 100K mile fluid change interval. I inquired about this recently but couldn't get through to a service adviser at my local dealer. Kept going around in a loop on the phone and gave up. The phone answerers had no idea what "CVT fluid" meant.

I then called a local transmission shop that I've used many times for pan drops, fluid/filter changes. I asked them about my 2016 Forester. They claim to use Subaru CVT fluid and charge $199. I'm at ~43K miles with my 2016 Forester and would like to get the CVT fluid changed, or may do it myself. Dunno yet.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: RedOakRanch
My wife and I love our 2016 Limited. It is just shy of 48k miles and has had no issues. I wasn't sold on full time AWD when we bought it but I am now. It's superior to my Mom's 2017 CRV AWD. It only used a half qt of oil so far but that was crossing AZ twice at 80mph while fully loaded so I'm not calling it a burner yet! I love getting 32mpg driving at regular speed with 8.7" of ground clearance and AWD and great interior room.


Congrats, you're getting an average MPG that is 2 standard deviations above the average 26 MPG (317 2016 Outbacks & 15,049 fill-ups). fuelly.com
BTW, you'd be getting 34 MPG instead of 32 MPG if you're Outback didn't constantly be forced to run in AWD mode.

 

[2dogs]

When I went to the Subaru dealer for my Foresters annual state inspection, I asked about a CVT fluid change. but the service writer said the car didn't need it. My Forester had just over 20000 miles on the odometer. It seems like the dealers are just interested in quick, unskilled maintenance things like oil changes, and over priced air and cabin filter changes.

 

[Balrog006]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Subaru is an excellent brand. They are noted for their awd systems but frankly, others have caught up so they don’t have that honor anymore.
Agree with everything you said except for what I colored red. Short of Audi, I don't see any other awd systems that are even close to Subaru. Owned Subies since 1995. As far as the family is concerned you can't beat them for reliability, economy, and performance. If you need awd for where you live, that's just gravy. Highly recommend!


There are better designs than Subaru's. I like the one in my '18 Equinox:
From http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/equinox/2018/2018-chevrolet-equinox-first-look-review/
"Even the optional all-wheel-drive system gets a makeover, moving to the driver-selectable GKN design in use on the GMC Acadia. Its system of clutches allows the driveshaft to be disconnected, greatly reducing friction and rotational inertia during those times when drive to the rear is not required."

GKN also designed the AWD system on the hot rod Focus RS:
https://www.gkn.com/en/our-divisions/gkn-driveline/case-studies/2016/focus-rs/

I hear the current Cherokee AWD system also keeps the driveshaft completely still until needed too. And Audi's as well.


Simply because a system is simpler or less stressful on certain parts, or if it is somehow mechanically superior does not mean it PERFORMS better than other systems...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: RedOakRanch
My wife and I love our 2016 Limited. It is just shy of 48k miles and has had no issues. I wasn't sold on full time AWD when we bought it but I am now. It's superior to my Mom's 2017 CRV AWD. It only used a half qt of oil so far but that was crossing AZ twice at 80mph while fully loaded so I'm not calling it a burner yet! I love getting 32mpg driving at regular speed with 8.7" of ground clearance and AWD and great interior room.


Congrats, you're getting an average MPG that is 2 standard deviations above the average 26 MPG (317 2016 Outbacks & 15,049 fill-ups). fuelly.com
BTW, you'd be getting 34 MPG instead of 32 MPG if you're Outback didn't constantly be forced to run in AWD mode.

Fuelly isn't that great for getting real world mileage for specific drivetrains in vehicles like the equinox because you can't filter by fwd or awd models. So you are comparing the average of fwd and awd Equinox to awd Outbacks.
NR Canada mileage
This is the Canadian mileage ratings and the Subaru is rated almost as good as the fwd 1.5l equinox and better than the awd versions. Plus the the 4 banger Outback has some towing ability, which you need to get into a 2.0L equinox to get and its farther behind on mileage with premium gas...
Atleast for me I don't think I'd even bother to test drive an Equinox, the Outback has what I need and IMO, its more likely to have less issues, plus its cheaper up here.