2014 Mazda 3 unveiled...
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Mazda lacks market share but they sell as many cars as BMW. Tey do have bad logistics. A friend of mine said the problem is no one wants a dual purpose sports car. They buy into stigmas 1. Sports cars are unreliable 2. Toyota Honda Toyota Honda. I think he is right.
Another good point:
Quote:
Ever notice how people always talk trash about miatas? The muscle car bros I was working for were talking so much trash. When I gave them a ride, they were freaking out how well it handles and how it scoots around in ways their cars couldn't imagine. They were talking about getting one as a beater to replace their sentra. The only argument I can make is this: drive lots of cars. Drive their wheels off. Then come back and make a solid opinion. If you are trying to quantify and create a model based off the tiny sample of cars that come through a shop, you're barking up the wrong tree. I have a ton of muscle car guys wanting coil overs. Does it mean all of their strut assemblies are bad?
And lastly, when it comes to cars, I don't bother discussing them with a lot of people because they frankly don't know what their talking about and/or are closed-minded and couldn't possibly conceive a world where there's a better car than the one they make payments on/work on. In this case, I'd let it go. This guy is too cool for mazdas. Toyota 4 lyfe, dawg.
Another good point:
Quote:
Ever notice how people always talk trash about miatas? The muscle car bros I was working for were talking so much trash. When I gave them a ride, they were freaking out how well it handles and how it scoots around in ways their cars couldn't imagine. They were talking about getting one as a beater to replace their sentra. The only argument I can make is this: drive lots of cars. Drive their wheels off. Then come back and make a solid opinion. If you are trying to quantify and create a model based off the tiny sample of cars that come through a shop, you're barking up the wrong tree. I have a ton of muscle car guys wanting coil overs. Does it mean all of their strut assemblies are bad?
And lastly, when it comes to cars, I don't bother discussing them with a lot of people because they frankly don't know what their talking about and/or are closed-minded and couldn't possibly conceive a world where there's a better car than the one they make payments on/work on. In this case, I'd let it go. This guy is too cool for mazdas. Toyota 4 lyfe, dawg.
I can't find a link, but in the article Jim Hall states that they lost critical economies of scale which greatly increased their costs. The reason M made more money in 1012 was yen-related, if the yen strengthens it will be bad for M.
At M's current volume in the US - 277k in 2012 - they are behind BMW and Mercedes, but those brands have much higher profits per unit. And sales here are only one quarter of the total world wide.
They simply do not have the volume to survive at their current levels of profit per unit sold.
At M's current volume in the US - 277k in 2012 - they are behind BMW and Mercedes, but those brands have much higher profits per unit. And sales here are only one quarter of the total world wide.
They simply do not have the volume to survive at their current levels of profit per unit sold.
I like it! And, I'm really liking the hatch trending I'm starting to see. Now, if Mazda would just bring a hatch or wagon to the 6 series that would be great.
I think Mazda is safe as a manufacturer for quite some time. Next to go though if any, Mitsubishi.
I think Mazda is safe as a manufacturer for quite some time. Next to go though if any, Mitsubishi.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Next thing you are going to tell me is that all those supermodels are enhanced by computer
Hehe, that's what I've been doing as my career for the past 21 years!
This new Mazda looks great! I think they've come a long way in the past 10 years or so. I could definitely see myself picking up a used 2014 Mazda 3 to replace my Civic in the future!
Next thing you are going to tell me is that all those supermodels are enhanced by computer
Hehe, that's what I've been doing as my career for the past 21 years!
This new Mazda looks great! I think they've come a long way in the past 10 years or so. I could definitely see myself picking up a used 2014 Mazda 3 to replace my Civic in the future!
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
The Mazda 3, 5 door, is about the same price as the CX-5. I would rather have the extra room of the CX-5.
And I would rather have the handling of the 3. Different strokes for different folks.
The Mazda 3, 5 door, is about the same price as the CX-5. I would rather have the extra room of the CX-5.
And I would rather have the handling of the 3. Different strokes for different folks.
It IS kind of pricey for a compact, though, don't you think? I paid just under $18K for mine because the hatchback Mazda3 actually costs about $3,000 more than the sedan and the Skyactiv drivetrain adds a bit more to the cost. That was the top of my price range when I went out looking.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
It IS kind of pricey for a compact, though, don't you think? I paid just under $18K for mine because the hatchback Mazda3 actually costs about $3,000 more than the sedan and the Skyactiv drivetrain adds a bit more to the cost. That was the top of my price range when I went out looking.
I agree. And the 5 door does seem like a big increase in price.
It IS kind of pricey for a compact, though, don't you think? I paid just under $18K for mine because the hatchback Mazda3 actually costs about $3,000 more than the sedan and the Skyactiv drivetrain adds a bit more to the cost. That was the top of my price range when I went out looking.
I agree. And the 5 door does seem like a big increase in price.
I think that either has to do with the fact that Mazda cannot realize the economies of scale that the larger manufacturers can, OR, they have come up with something of a quality level that demands higher cost. I test-drove about a dozen compacts and, by a decent margin, the Mazda3 drove like more of an enthusiast's car than the rest. It wasn't a huge margin, but it was significant enough. I might have saved $2,000-3,000 by buying a different vehicle, though. Over the ten years I plan to own it that shouldn't make much difference.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I think that either has to do with the fact that Mazda cannot realize the economies of scale that the larger manufacturers can, OR, they have come up with something of a quality level that demands higher cost. I test-drove about a dozen compacts and, by a decent margin, the Mazda3 drove like more of an enthusiast's car than the rest. It wasn't a huge margin, but it was significant enough. I might have saved $2,000-3,000 by buying a different vehicle, though. Over the ten years I plan to own it that shouldn't make much difference.
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
I can't wait until the new Mazda 3 is available for a test drive locally.
BC.
I think that either has to do with the fact that Mazda cannot realize the economies of scale that the larger manufacturers can, OR, they have come up with something of a quality level that demands higher cost. I test-drove about a dozen compacts and, by a decent margin, the Mazda3 drove like more of an enthusiast's car than the rest. It wasn't a huge margin, but it was significant enough. I might have saved $2,000-3,000 by buying a different vehicle, though. Over the ten years I plan to own it that shouldn't make much difference.
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
I can't wait until the new Mazda 3 is available for a test drive locally.
BC.
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
Mazda has one very significant advantage over Toyota, Honda and Nissan. They do not have the glass ceiling of a premium brand above them. They're free to do their best on every car. When you really think about it that's something the other three can no longer do. They're forced to make a car not 'too' good lest it must wear a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti badge.
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
Mazda has one very significant advantage over Toyota, Honda and Nissan. They do not have the glass ceiling of a premium brand above them. They're free to do their best on every car. When you really think about it that's something the other three can no longer do. They're forced to make a car not 'too' good lest it must wear a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti badge.
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
I can't wait until the new Mazda 3 is available for a test drive locally.
BC.
While my 124,000 mile 2007 MS3 had a few teething issues over its first 60,000 miles, it has been totally reliable ever since. And while I've always had a preference for European sport sedans, I have to say that-in my opinion-my Mazda is a much more entertaining drive than the F30 and any of its American/European/Asian competitors. I actually prefer it to any of the new Bimmers save the 135i M Sport and the E9x M3.
Yes, Mazda is charging a premium, albeit a slight premium, for the driving dynamics that they put into their cars, in comparison to the other Japanese and American vehicles that they directly compete with.
Think of it as how BMW has their suspension tuning and driving dynamics a step above most of their competition (Lexus, Infiniti, Accord, Audi), and the premium BMW owners pay when they buy their car new. Mazda is, in a way, doing the same thing.
And I think they deserve it, too.
Their vehicles now have a premium look and feel, both on the interior, and the exterior of the vehicles, and the driving dynamics are second to none in their direct competition.
I can't wait until the new Mazda 3 is available for a test drive locally.
BC.
While my 124,000 mile 2007 MS3 had a few teething issues over its first 60,000 miles, it has been totally reliable ever since. And while I've always had a preference for European sport sedans, I have to say that-in my opinion-my Mazda is a much more entertaining drive than the F30 and any of its American/European/Asian competitors. I actually prefer it to any of the new Bimmers save the 135i M Sport and the E9x M3.
I love this car. If I wasn't married to my GTI for at least another 140,000 miles it would be at the top of my list of cars to look at.
It's a shame the current generation of Mazda 3 is so ugly to my eye. Because the Mazda is what I wanted to begin with. I am really happy with my GTI, but I've always had a soft spot for Mazda.
It's a shame the current generation of Mazda 3 is so ugly to my eye. Because the Mazda is what I wanted to begin with. I am really happy with my GTI, but I've always had a soft spot for Mazda.
Heres the new sedan version. I think I may like this better than the hatch. I just don't see them losing anything anytime soon.
If anything they should corner the market with these 2 designs.
http://jalopnik.com/2014-mazda3-sedan-this-is-it-665916418
If anything they should corner the market with these 2 designs.
http://jalopnik.com/2014-mazda3-sedan-this-is-it-665916418
Finally got the link for an excellent article about why Mazda is in need of a savior...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Finally got the link for an excellent article about why Mazda is in need of a savior...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
That article doesn't say anything new that wasn't already mentioned in this and other threads.
Mazda doesn’t need a "savior", as the article implies. GM and Chrysler needed a savior because they were financially insolvent. Volvo needed a savior when Ford dumped them. Saab still needs a savior when GM said their farewells. But Mazda needs a PARTNER to lower the R&D and manufacturing costs, not to bail them out with money or new product line.
To me there is a difference between companies that hook up with others because they have no money or fresh and competitive product line and companies like Mazda, that need to lower their operating costs and be protected from currency swings.
There is no question that Mazda needs a partner, but it's no different than Subaru hooking up with Toyota.
Finally got the link for an excellent article about why Mazda is in need of a savior...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
That article doesn't say anything new that wasn't already mentioned in this and other threads.
Mazda doesn’t need a "savior", as the article implies. GM and Chrysler needed a savior because they were financially insolvent. Volvo needed a savior when Ford dumped them. Saab still needs a savior when GM said their farewells. But Mazda needs a PARTNER to lower the R&D and manufacturing costs, not to bail them out with money or new product line.
To me there is a difference between companies that hook up with others because they have no money or fresh and competitive product line and companies like Mazda, that need to lower their operating costs and be protected from currency swings.
There is no question that Mazda needs a partner, but it's no different than Subaru hooking up with Toyota.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Finally got the link for an excellent article about why Mazda is in need of a savior...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
Again, the article doesn't say anything negative about the company, as it stands right now.
If R&D costs skyrocket, then they have a potential problem, somewhere down the line.
But, they just spent a ton of money on all new product, right now, which will last them for a generation on each vehicle, so that's about 8 years down the road.
They already have a plan in to lower the production costs of the Mazda 2 and 3, their bread and butter cars in so many markets, plus it will increase their profit margin having those two cars built in Mexico, as long as the quality holds up, which it should, since Mazda isn't at all like Ford, GM, VW, and Chrysler, in that regards.
So, they are currently making profit on their CX-5, and Mazda 6 vehicles. The new Mazda 3 will also bring in much more profit once the new version is available for sale. When the new Mazda 2 gets released, and is built in their Mexico plant next year, along with the Mazda 3, they will be able to make yet more profit on each of those vehicles, and they will finally be able to build more Mazda 6's at their Hiroshima plant, to meet the current demand.
A great example of the production restrictions can been seen on available inventory across the US on cars.com.
2014 Mazda 6 - 3137
2013 Honda Accord - 46058
2013 Toyota Camry - 43458
2013 VW Passat - 22251
2013 Hyundai Sonata - 18949
2013 Nissan Altima - 47988
2013 Ford Fusion - 19503
Mazda sold 3,840 Mazda 6's last month.
That means that they have less than 1 month's worth of inventory available, right now, across the entire US market. That's good for the dealers, because they get to sell the cars for more than they would if there were 30k+ available.
Mazda's not nearly in as much trouble as Car & Driver just claimed in their article.
BC.
Finally got the link for an excellent article about why Mazda is in need of a savior...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/doom-doom-why-mazda-needs-a-savior-feature
Again, the article doesn't say anything negative about the company, as it stands right now.
If R&D costs skyrocket, then they have a potential problem, somewhere down the line.
But, they just spent a ton of money on all new product, right now, which will last them for a generation on each vehicle, so that's about 8 years down the road.
They already have a plan in to lower the production costs of the Mazda 2 and 3, their bread and butter cars in so many markets, plus it will increase their profit margin having those two cars built in Mexico, as long as the quality holds up, which it should, since Mazda isn't at all like Ford, GM, VW, and Chrysler, in that regards.
So, they are currently making profit on their CX-5, and Mazda 6 vehicles. The new Mazda 3 will also bring in much more profit once the new version is available for sale. When the new Mazda 2 gets released, and is built in their Mexico plant next year, along with the Mazda 3, they will be able to make yet more profit on each of those vehicles, and they will finally be able to build more Mazda 6's at their Hiroshima plant, to meet the current demand.
A great example of the production restrictions can been seen on available inventory across the US on cars.com.
2014 Mazda 6 - 3137
2013 Honda Accord - 46058
2013 Toyota Camry - 43458
2013 VW Passat - 22251
2013 Hyundai Sonata - 18949
2013 Nissan Altima - 47988
2013 Ford Fusion - 19503
Mazda sold 3,840 Mazda 6's last month.
That means that they have less than 1 month's worth of inventory available, right now, across the entire US market. That's good for the dealers, because they get to sell the cars for more than they would if there were 30k+ available.
Mazda's not nearly in as much trouble as Car & Driver just claimed in their article.
BC.
Some will
some won't
so what
who's next.
All it'll take is a big swing in the yen and mazda is toast. The reason they were profitable was mostly due to the yen moving.
Mazda's fans are loyal, that's great, they make good cars today and have good things in the pipeline for tomorrow. But their situation is indeed precarious. Very big folks in the car biz know that it is difficult to make it without a certain worldwide volume and M just ain't there yet.
At least their management is aware and actively looking for their needs, unlike their fan base. The US market is great for them now, but it's not enough for a world wide company...
some won't
so what
who's next.
All it'll take is a big swing in the yen and mazda is toast. The reason they were profitable was mostly due to the yen moving.
Mazda's fans are loyal, that's great, they make good cars today and have good things in the pipeline for tomorrow. But their situation is indeed precarious. Very big folks in the car biz know that it is difficult to make it without a certain worldwide volume and M just ain't there yet.
At least their management is aware and actively looking for their needs, unlike their fan base. The US market is great for them now, but it's not enough for a world wide company...
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