2014 Lincoln Navigator 167k mi; HPL PCMO 5W-20 5.5k mi

[Panda87]

First analysis was with Amsoil SS 5W-20. This second one seems to have an intake leak as suggested by the analysis. When I first picked this Navigator up engine showed lots of carbon and varnish internally when scoped. This HPL fill had a filter change at 2500mi with a Fram Ultra. It was cut open and the pleats had pretty decent loading of carbonaceous material. I’m curious if perhaps the abrasives were from the liberated internal material (oil consumption has stopped completely) or were due to an unmitigated intake leak. All rubber intake joints were reseated and tightened.

Thoughts?

 

[fantastic]

Try another 5k & keep testing to see what happens after your intake checks. Doesn't look great obviously.

 

[himemsys]

Check the air filter and related hoses and piping first. How long as the existing air filter been in there?

 

[Panda87]

Check the air filter and related hoses and piping first. How long as the existing air filter been in there?

This one has been in place since I bought it. I installed this intake back around 145k. I recently cleaned and re-oiled the filter, but that was only in the last 500mi. I have noticed that it looked like the silicone sleeve that connected the intake stack to the intake tube looked like it had backed away from the intake stack about 3/8” or so, so I’ve snugged it all back up and tightened it all down.

 

[Panda87]

Try another 5k & keep testing to see what happens after your intake checks. Doesn't look great obviously.

That was my thinking. I’ll pull a sample at 5k and see what happens. The fill I’m running now is the HPL PCMO 5w-40 since I do a lot of towing and I’m hoping to reduce that wear.

 

[Pablo]

First analysis was with Amsoil SS 5W-20. This second one seems to have an intake leak as suggested by the analysis. When I first picked this Navigator up engine showed lots of carbon and varnish internally when scoped. This HPL fill had a filter change at 2500mi with a Fram Ultra. It was cut open and the pleats had pretty decent loading of carbonaceous material. I’m curious if perhaps the abrasives were from the liberated internal material (oil consumption has stopped completely) or were due to an unmitigated intake leak. All rubber intake joints were reseated and tightened.

Thoughts?

View attachment 286941

Fuel

 

[RDY4WAR]

Given the oil consumption stopped and the filter was loaded at 2,500 miles, I'm thinking this is the result of extensive cleaning, particularly around the pistons and rings. High wear metals are common with heavy cleaning. This is not new wear but rather wear metals from previous changes, trapped in the carbonaceous deposits, are being released back into suspension. An intake leak is possible as well though I think it's secondary to cleaning. If you lived in the desert or somewhere with frequent sand/dust storms, I would be more inclined to think an intake leak would play a larger role. Given that you're in the Pacific NW, I doubt that's the case.

There's 17,300 miles between these 2 samples. What oil was run inbetween? You mentioned reoiling the air filter, is that one of those "lifetime" K&N filters? I'm not a fan of those as even when properly oiled, the filtration efficiency is still atrocious compared to basic paper filter.

Run the next change for another 5,000 miles and sample again. If it is cleaning, I would expect these numbers to gradually drop with each change.

 

[Crusher]

Panda87
I'm guessing that's a 5.4L 3v like I run in my 2011 Expedition. Currently 400k+ miles
@250k miles I switched from Amsoil SS 5w-20 to Amsoil SS 5w-30, and never looked back.
Try bumping up to 5w-30 and see what happens.
Good Luck!

 

[Panda87]

Given the oil consumption stopped and the filter was loaded at 2,500 miles, I'm thinking this is the result of extensive cleaning, particularly around the pistons and rings. High wear metals are common with heavy cleaning. This is not new wear but rather wear metals from previous changes, trapped in the carbonaceous deposits, are being released back into suspension. An intake leak is possible as well though I think it's secondary to cleaning. If you lived in the desert or somewhere with frequent sand/dust storms, I would be more inclined to think an intake leak would play a larger role. Given that you're in the Pacific NW, I doubt that's the case.

There's 17,300 miles between these 2 samples. What oil was run inbetween? You mentioned reoiling the air filter, is that one of those "lifetime" K&N filters? I'm not a fan of those as even when properly oiled, the filtration efficiency is still atrocious compared to basic paper filter.

Run the next change for another 5,000 miles and sample again. If it is cleaning, I would expect these numbers to gradually drop with each change.

I appreciate your input on this!
I’ll definitely resample at 5k and post that one as well. Hopefully those wear contaminants do drop.

As for the air filter, yes it’s a K&N, this is the same one in the first analysis. It’s the same filter that was in my recent GL450 post as well. They seem to be doing okay, but I have heard of issues in the past with poor filtration.

The reason for the long gap between the analyses is two pronged. I had the timing service performed on this engine and the shop used Maxlife 5w-20 and I left it in for 3k. Afterward, the USPS has lost my previous two samples in their Indy distro center. I watched this sample like a hawk and even had to file a missing package request to get it found and moving again.

I’m located in North Alabama, but even then, it’s not dusty or otherwise a dirty location.

Again, I appreciate your input

 

[RDY4WAR]

I appreciate your input on this!
I’ll definitely resample at 5k and post that one as well. Hopefully those wear contaminants do drop.

As for the air filter, yes it’s a K&N, this is the same one in the first analysis. It’s the same filter that was in my recent GL450 post as well. They seem to be doing okay, but I have heard of issues in the past with poor filtration.

The reason for the long gap between the analyses is two pronged. I had the timing service performed on this engine and the shop used Maxlife 5w-20 and I left it in for 3k. Afterward, the USPS has lost my previous two samples in their Indy distro center. I watched this sample like a hawk and even had to file a missing package request to get it found and moving again.

I’m located in North Alabama, but even then, it’s not dusty or otherwise a dirty location.

Again, I appreciate your input

USPS lost a sample of mine a few months back as well. I submitted a request as well, but it hasn't been found.

My mistake on the location. I was looking under the wrong username.

 

[Oliveoil2]

I appreciate your input on this!
I’ll definitely resample at 5k and post that one as well. Hopefully those wear contaminants do drop.

As for the air filter, yes it’s a K&N, this is the same one in the first analysis. It’s the same filter that was in my recent GL450 post as well. They seem to be doing okay, but I have heard of issues in the past with poor filtration.

The reason for the long gap between the analyses is two pronged. I had the timing service performed on this engine and the shop used Maxlife 5w-20 and I left it in for 3k. Afterward, the USPS has lost my previous two samples in their Indy distro center. I watched this sample like a hawk and even had to file a missing package request to get it found and moving again.

I’m located in North Alabama, but even then, it’s not dusty or otherwise a dirty location.

Again, I appreciate your input

Most K&N air filter users clean their filters way too often. They filter better with time…up to a point. 60-80k is what I do. Yet a factory paper filter every 20-30k is probably fine too.

 

[Panda87]

Panda87
I'm guessing that's a 5.4L 3v like I run in my 2011 Expedition. Currently 400k+ miles
@250k miles I switched from Amsoil SS 5w-20 to Amsoil SS 5w-30, and never looked back.
Try bumping up to 5w-30 and see what happens.
Good Luck!

Hey crusher! It is a 3v 5.4. The fill I’ve got in it now is HPL PCMO 5w-40. The engine definitely runs smoother with a heavier oil in it, especially when towing my scaled 7500lb camper.

 

[Panda87]

Most K&N air filter users clean their filters way too often. They filter better with time…up to a point. 60-80k is what I do. Yet a factory paper filter every 20-30k is probably fine too.

This one has been in place for just over 20k. It looked pretty nasty and full of bugs in the pleats, so I cleaned it; maybe I’ll let it run longer so long as the LTFT isn’t pulling fuel. The long term fuel trims in the GL450 start dropping to ~-5-7% around the 8k mark as the filters start loading up. The way the intakes are designed on that one seems to force lots of leaves and bugs into the filter and they loaded up pretty quickly. The STFT has started to trend back to stoichiometry after a cleaning.

 

[Panda87]

USPS lost a sample of mine a few months back as well. I submitted a request as well, but it hasn't been found.

My mistake on the location. I was looking under the wrong username.

Man I hate to hear that. Nobody likes losing that precious data. Sure, the USPS will reimburse you the cost of the kit, but it won’t get that trend data back.

 

[buster]

I'd stick with the HPL and try and get that Si down.

Are you going to re-scope it to see if it's cleaning it up? It should after a few OCI's.

 

[twX]

The reason for the long gap between the analyses is two pronged. I had the timing service performed on this engine and the shop used Maxlife 5w-20 and I left it in for 3k.

The silicon could be coming from the RTV used to reseal the timing cover.

 

[Panda87]

I'd stick with the HPL and try and get that Si down.

Are you going to re-scope it to see if it's cleaning it up? It should after a few OCI's.

Ironically, when I got home from this ~600 mile round trip today, I stuck the scope down the oil fill neck and noticed that much of the carbon buildup I had seen before is thinning and metal is becoming visible in about 4 spots, while the rest still has that textured black carbon buildup on it, but I’m starting to see a varnish color rather than pure black.

 

[Panda87]

The silicon could be coming from the RTV used to reseal the timing cover.

I was wondering if that could be the case. Polaris noted that it could be coming from gasket/sealer and you could be right! I’m wondering if it’s multiple sources (cleaning, RTV/sealer, intake leak) and all contributing. It’s hard to say at this point, but all suggested ideas are plausible. I’m definitely going to pull a sample at 170,000 miles (2700 on the oil) to see what it’s looking like, then establish 5000 mile sample intervals if the wear metals are in decline.

 

[Panda87]

Something just crossed my mind. When I had the timing job done, I followed the often repeated advice to upgrade the oil pump to the Melling M340HV, which is a 20% increase in oil volume (not pressure) versus stock. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s somehow pushing the oil filter bypass spring open and circulating unfiltered oil as a result of the increased volume increasing pressure at the filter?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Something just crossed my mind. When I had the timing job done, I followed the often repeated advice to upgrade the oil pump to the Melling M340HV, which is a 20% increase in oil volume (not pressure) versus stock. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s somehow pushing the oil filter bypass spring open and circulating unfiltered oil as a result of the increased volume increasing pressure at the filter?

Unlikely. Even if it did, most of the oil would still go through the filter media as the bypass spring only opens enough to keep the pressure differential in check. I doubt it's opening at all though as it's a rare event.

The HV pump will still increase pressure. More volume against the same clearance means pressure will increase some if still below bypass spring pressure. It just still bypasses at the same 60 psi.