2014 Acura RLX Suspension Walkaround

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I believe the RLX will be the SH-AWD version with electric motors(hybrid). So the entire idea of undersized brakes likely won't matter as much since those brake rotors coupled to the braking system is augmented by the generators/motors for the SH AWD hybrid system.

Lastly the suspension which is topic is toeing the wheels during braking to add extra stopping power.

Is anyone going to see this thing on a track. Nope. Do we have driving in the USA where this stuff even really matters. A bit.

Not my cup of tea for sure as a car.
 
The single piston front calipers would be more worrying to me. Sure, they'll stop the car just fine, but my experience with any vehicle equipped with single piston sliding calipers is that they feel like stepping on a warm dog turd through the brake pedal.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
I believe the RLX will be the SH-AWD version with electric motors(hybrid). So the entire idea of undersized brakes likely won't matter as much since those brake rotors coupled to the braking system is augmented by the generators/motors for the SH AWD hybrid system.

Lastly the suspension which is topic is toeing the wheels during braking to add extra stopping power.

Is anyone going to see this thing on a track. Nope. Do we have driving in the USA where this stuff even really matters. A bit.

Not my cup of tea for sure as a car.


Sorry, but according to the review I posted the rear wheel steering is toeing the wheels inward for stability under braking. It is not increasing the braking performance, just enhancing control. Nice idea BTW. I actually like that part as it specifically addresses the disadvantages of low rolling resistance tires, as in helping fuel economy slightly.

It is not a hybrid, but will likely be offered as one in a bit.

Have you ever driven down a mountain road? In many large heavy cars this can be a bit harrowing as your brakes begin to fade!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Have you ever driven down a mountain road? In many large heavy cars this can be a bit harrowing as your brakes begin to fade!


I think you're talking to me...

Yes, I have driven down the side of a mountain, briskly, in a car with solid rear discs. The brakes did eventually start to fade (tight, curvy road, it took some effort), but when I backed off the pace and stopped trying to carry as much speed as possible through every corner while accelerating as fast as the car could the fade went away. Non stock, sport focused brake pads likely would have resolved this.

I totally agree that it's noteworthy that the car has a budget brake setup, but I don't think it's anything to get hung up on. I just can't imagine the type of person who would buy this car with the intent to take it out on a race track or do extended high speed mountain runs.

Yeah, if you need to put a tow hitch on the car to move an extra 1000 lbs while you've got the car topped off with passengers and a full trunk these brakes might be a genuine safety concern. But for quick blasts around town... eh, they'll work.
 
I do agree with others that the braking system doesn't look to have a ton of reserve in it. The single-piston front calipers are most notable to me. I think the brakes would be adequate, but only adequate. I don't necessarily think opposed-piston calipers are necessarily needed, but I'd at least like to see a sliding dual-piston caliper up front (as our SUVs have), for more friction area.

I'm most excited about the P-AWS. Being able to dynamically and continuously change camshaft phasing in an internal combustion engine is a key tool in creating more flexibility from an engine. Like variable camshaft phasing, Acura's P-AWS (or systems like it) have the potential to re-write the books on how rear suspension geometry is designed. Independent rear suspensions allow engineers to get some toe change with suspension travel, which has a clear benefit over something like a solid rear axle, where no toe change is permitted. But conventional IRSes only allow fixed toe changes, and the toe change they can engineer-in often come with compromises to tire wear or efficiency, if they're aggressive enough with it.

P-AWS re-writes all of this. Most of these limitations are removed, and a suspension designer can get the toe he or she wants at any given time, at any given point in the suspension travel. That has the potential to be incredibly beneficial. The downside at this point, of course, is cost. Those P-AWS toe control links have got to be many thousands of dollars each. And they add some unsprung weight to the suspension.

What I'd like to see is a hybrid of Acura's P-AWS and a "conventional" hydraulic rack-based rear steer system (like Lexus' system shown above). Let's use a conventional (solid) toe control link, and make the inboard mount movable in-and-out. Have a small actuator on that mount that can pivot it in and out by so many degrees. This is essentially what Lexus' system does (move the inboard mount). But because Lexus' system is rack-based, toe cannot be changed independently. I'd like to see a compact actuator at each inboard mount, so that toe can be adjusted independently for each wheel.

Such a compact system could be easily adapted to other platforms (like Accord- or Civic-sized vehicles). I can also see the potential to have a lower-cost design used, one that perhaps isn't infinitely variable as the RLX's appears to be, but one that can move in prescribed steps under certain conditions (such as full toe-in at both wheels under hard braking only).

And for enthusiasts, the possibilities for aftermarket tuning here for certain track conditions are endless. Can you imagine being able to set up your car for Sebring by merely uploading a different program to the car's computer? After the HPDE, return the suspension to "street" settings for the drive home.

To me, this is HUGE.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Have you ever driven down a mountain road? In many large heavy cars this can be a bit harrowing as your brakes begin to fade!


Yes. I grew up summers half mile from this road


I never noticed fade even flying in my 07 MDX recently. I know this road by heart up and down when I was so lucky to have a 82 GTI as my first car. Definitely a Fly GTI on this road.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mykl
I totally agree that it's noteworthy that the car has a budget brake setup, but I don't think it's anything to get hung up on. I just can't imagine the type of person who would buy this car with the intent to take it out on a race track or do extended high speed mountain runs.


Why not? It's a $50k car and it should have the basics covered in spades, that is effortless acceleration and effortless braking ander all conditions. This is not an econobox or a mid sizer, this is, at least according to Acura, their flagship, luxury model, so why make excuses for them?
Having everything in excess is a definition of luxury to me, not just barely enough, adequate or intended for an average user.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Why not? It's a $50k car and it should have the basics covered in spades, that is effortless acceleration and effortless braking ander all conditions. This is not an econobox or a mid sizer, this is, at least according to Acura, their flagship, luxury model, so why make excuses for them?
Having everything in excess is a definition of luxury to me, not just barely enough, adequate or intended for an average user.


You can apply that argument to any aspect of any luxury car you don't like. Why doesn't this car have a 600 hp V-8? Why isn't it AWD? Why are the tires so narrow? Why is the gas tank so small? Why can I only fit 3.7 dead hookers in the trunk and not 5.3? etc. etc. etc.

I've made my position clear. All I have left to say is that if you don't like it, don't buy it. Buy a different car where they chose to compromise another part of the car that you're more willing to live with. Because they're all compromised in some way.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Regarding the brakes, what surprises me are the comments regarding the rear brakes, and not the single-piston front calipers. Both of our SUVs (costing half as much as this RLX) use dual-piston front calipers. Our CR-V's brakes come from the Odyssey; they're designed for a much larger vehicle and have plenty of reserve capacity. So why did the RLX get single-piston front calipers? To me, that's the real question about the brakes.


Since my fleet vans had single piston front brakes with nearly 10k GVWR's I can assure you that a single piston can easily generate the clamping forces required.

But it is another sign of obvious cost cutting.

It's a disappointment for spec. sheet racers for sure but I can tell you my S2000 has single piston front calipers and can out-stop most cars on the road and not fade after doing it repeatedly so it doesn't worry me too much.
 
Originally Posted By: gofast182
It's a disappointment for spec. sheet racers for sure but I can tell you my S2000 has single piston front calipers and can out-stop most cars on the road and not fade after doing it repeatedly so it doesn't worry me too much.


My GTI has single piston fronts and while they perform fine, stop the car well, are fade resistant enough, they feel like [censored] and are so vague that fine adjustments are difficult to make.

Clearly there's more to brake feel than the number of pistons in the brake calipers, so if Honda has it figured out then maybe it's not such a concern on this car.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: gofast182
It's a disappointment for spec. sheet racers for sure but I can tell you my S2000 has single piston front calipers and can out-stop most cars on the road and not fade after doing it repeatedly so it doesn't worry me too much.


My GTI has single piston fronts and while they perform fine, stop the car well, are fade resistant enough, they feel like [censored] and are so vague that fine adjustments are difficult to make.

Clearly there's more to brake feel than the number of pistons in the brake calipers, so if Honda has it figured out then maybe it's not such a concern on this car.


IIRC my M5 has single piston front's too. They are really big, and so are the rotors, but they work exceptionally well FWIW
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: gofast182
It's a disappointment for spec. sheet racers for sure but I can tell you my S2000 has single piston front calipers and can out-stop most cars on the road and not fade after doing it repeatedly so it doesn't worry me too much.


My GTI has single piston fronts and while they perform fine, stop the car well, are fade resistant enough, they feel like [censored] and are so vague that fine adjustments are difficult to make.

Clearly there's more to brake feel than the number of pistons in the brake calipers, so if Honda has it figured out then maybe it's not such a concern on this car.


IIRC my M5 has single piston front's too. They are really big, and so are the rotors, but they work exceptionally well FWIW
smile.gif


Exactly. The piston is large and tubular, covers a large area of the pad.
 
Originally Posted By: gofast182
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Regarding the brakes, what surprises me are the comments regarding the rear brakes, and not the single-piston front calipers. Both of our SUVs (costing half as much as this RLX) use dual-piston front calipers. Our CR-V's brakes come from the Odyssey; they're designed for a much larger vehicle and have plenty of reserve capacity. So why did the RLX get single-piston front calipers? To me, that's the real question about the brakes.


Since my fleet vans had single piston front brakes with nearly 10k GVWR's I can assure you that a single piston can easily generate the clamping forces required.

But it is another sign of obvious cost cutting.

It's a disappointment for spec. sheet racers for sure but I can tell you my S2000 has single piston front calipers and can out-stop most cars on the road and not fade after doing it repeatedly so it doesn't worry me too much.


Yes, as I noted the single piston can still exert considerable clamping pressure, especially since we're all pretty much boosted brakes these days.

But comparing an RLX to an S2000 is a bit of a stretch, there's some considerable heft in the RLX that your brakes would no doubt strain to handle!
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I'm most excited about the P-AWS...


What I'd like to see is a hybrid of Acura's P-AWS and a "conventional" hydraulic rack-based rear steer system (like Lexus' system shown above). Let's use a conventional (solid) toe control link, and make the inboard mount movable in-and-out. Have a small actuator on that mount that can pivot it in and out by so many degrees. This is essentially what Lexus' system does (move the inboard mount). But because Lexus' system is rack-based, toe cannot be changed independently. I'd like to see a compact actuator at each inboard mount, so that toe can be adjusted independently for each wheel.

Such a compact system could be easily adapted to other platforms (like Accord- or Civic-sized vehicles). I can also see the potential to have a lower-cost design used, one that perhaps isn't infinitely variable as the RLX's appears to be, but one that can move in prescribed steps under certain conditions (such as full toe-in at both wheels under hard braking only).

And for enthusiasts, the possibilities for aftermarket tuning here for certain track conditions are endless. Can you imagine being able to set up your car for Sebring by merely uploading a different program to the car's computer? After the HPDE, return the suspension to "street" settings for the drive home.

To me, this is HUGE.



Stunning idea... got your patent application?

Actually, everything that it does is mostly handled with modern anti dive/anti squat/variable geometry multi link suspensions on most nice IRS setups. But it's not active, strictly reactive passive systems.

Seriously though, I hadn't even considered the idea of software tuning, that's mega-cool!
 
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Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Have you ever driven down a mountain road? In many large heavy cars this can be a bit harrowing as your brakes begin to fade!


Yes. I grew up summers half mile from this road


I never noticed fade even flying in my 07 MDX recently. I know this road by heart up and down when I was so lucky to have a 82 GTI as my first car. Definitely a Fly GTI on this road.


Nice video. I live for roads like that!

I used to live in KY near US19 in the mountains and it was a very scenic AND challenging piece of road also...
 
We bought one of the 1st Acura Legends back in 1986, our last new car with a manual transmission. Was bigger than almost any other Japanese sedan (Remember: this was pre-Lexus & pre-Infinity), got pretty good gas mileage, as I recall there was that year one option: manual or automatic. Kept it for 138K miles and sold it to a friend who drove it over 100 miles RT each work day for two or three years. No big problems, replaced shocks & struts with Tokico, both the master & slave clutch hydraulics when we did a clutch @ 125K, or so. One set of front rotors, pads a couple times. Tires, belts & hoses. Very reliable and "Honda-like" when that was fair praise indeed. At the time I felt it was a better choice than an E-class or a SHO.

What do you all predict an all-wheel $teering alignment will run? Will it be available at any location$ other than the Acura Dealership$?

Cheers!
 
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Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
What do you all predict an all-wheel $teering alignment will run? Will it be available at any location$ other than the Acura Dealership$?


This is a good question. If you look at the photos of the rear suspension, there are conventional cam bolts where the rear toe/steer links connect to the chassis. I'm guessing that the car puts the rear toe/steer links into a "default" setting when the car is turned off, and they're essentially standard toe control links at that point. So I'd say that an alignment is *probably* done the conventional way, by turning the cam bolts to adjust static toe.

I imagine the Lexus mentioned earlier is similar. It has a rack-based rear steer system, but I bet that when the car is turned off, the rear steer system centers itself if it's not already there, and the rear tie rods would be adjusted to set toe just like front tie rods would be.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
What do you all predict an all-wheel $teering alignment will run? Will it be available at any location$ other than the Acura Dealership$?


This is a good question. If you look at the photos of the rear suspension, there are conventional cam bolts where the rear toe/steer links connect to the chassis. I'm guessing that the car puts the rear toe/steer links into a "default" setting when the car is turned off, and they're essentially standard toe control links at that point. So I'd say that an alignment is *probably* done the conventional way, by turning the cam bolts to adjust static toe.

I imagine the Lexus mentioned earlier is similar. It has a rack-based rear steer system, but I bet that when the car is turned off, the rear steer system centers itself if it's not already there, and the rear tie rods would be adjusted to set toe just like front tie rods would be.

I guess you would have to compare the price of a wheel alignment to:
1990-1996 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
Chevy Quadrasteer truck
Some versions of the Honda Prelude
And I think the New Nissan GT-R uses 4WS as well. I know that NOTHING on a GT-R is cheap to maintain.
 
I'm not a fan of 4-wheel steering or AWD. Real sports cars and race cars almost never use those gimmicks. Although there are some stitations where AWD can be helpful-high pwered car driven in bad weather. RWD is where it's at.
 
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