2013 Traverse

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I couldn't agree with you more. The "debt = bad" mantra is about as wore out around here as Jiffy Lube's 3000 mile OCI deal.


Well, since we want to keep with the automotive examples, tell me how many people out there know how to determine a proper OCI? While it is understood on this forum that 3k OCIs are a waste because we know that from used oil analysis and manufacturer's specs, most people couldn't care less about those things. Furthermore, since most people don't even know what their car manufacturer recommends and are lazy to change their oil anyway, a 3k OCI is actually a pretty good recommendation for most people out there because they will not check the oil level and be late on changing the oil anyway.

So, generally speaking, 3k OCIs are actually good, which brings me down to debt.

Originally Posted By: bustednutz
Banks said heres a pile, buy a house. After that they had no clue. Lots of financially illiterate people out there.


This is how majority of people treat debt. They have no clue how to manage it and instead they take the max banks give to them and spend it all worrying only about monthly payments. Very few people take advantage of debt and make it work for them.

So, since most people don't know how to manage debt, never mind about making the debt work to your advanatge, it is safe to say, in most general terms, that debt is bad.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Kris, both of your examples take the easy approach. People don't know how to figure an OCI. The easy way out is recommend 3,000 miles. People don't know how to manage debt. The easy way out is scold then when they have it.

This doesn't solve the problem; it doesn't *teach* anyone a new skill. They're not any smarter for it. It's feeding a man a fish. Yes, he'll eat for a day.

I say *teach* a person how to figure a reasonable OCI. I say *teach* a person how to effectively manage debt, and to use it to their advantage. *Teach* a man to fish; he'll eat for a lifetime.

What's in this thread is not teaching; it's scolding. And it's not effective. Nick gets frustrated because of the scolding; the Dave Ramsey fans get frustrated because Nick's family keeps buying new cars. Nobody's winning here. And that's my point.

 

[KrisZ]

Hokiefyd, I totally agree with that.
I understand why Nick would be frustrated because he never asked for help with managing debt, but on the other hand he does mention finances in every single thread about new car purchases and reasons for making the decisions.

This is an open forum and given the information all sorts of responses are to be expected. Notice that in other new car threads, where finances are never mentioned, besides maybe the price of the car, the topic never comes up. Is it a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not

.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I agree; Nick does bring it up every time. Maybe there's a reason for that. And I'm not saying that people should not necessarily be aiming to have no debt.

All I'm saying is the aggressive approach taken by some, the posts that appear to scold Nick and his family, certainly don't work. They're a waste of key strokes for those who author them, if they are truly trying to help. A more effective offer of help may look something like this: "Nick, I've noticed a trend from your past posts and have some ideas to potentially help your family better manage debt; PM me if you'd like to talk about that."

I certainly don't write this to censor what folks say; to be sure, this is a free and open forum, and we are priviledged to have it. But what I am saying is that if these offers of help are truly in good will, I think there may be more effective ways to approach it. And, please PM me if you'd like to talk about that!

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I agree; Nick does bring it up every time. Maybe there's a reason for that. And I'm not saying that people should not necessarily be aiming to have no debt.

All I'm saying is the aggressive approach taken by some, the posts that appear to scold Nick and his family, certainly don't work. They're a waste of key strokes for those who author them, if they are truly trying to help. A more effective offer of help may look something like this: "Nick, I've noticed a trend from your past posts and have some ideas to potentially help your family better manage debt; PM me if you'd like to talk about that."

I certainly don't write this to censor what folks say; to be sure, this is a free and open forum, and we are priviledged to have it. But what I am saying is that if these offers of help are truly in good will, I think there may be more effective ways to approach it. And, please PM me if you'd like to talk about that!

Hokie you've pretty much hit the nail on the head on every point. That's exactly right.

And the reason I bring it up is because if I don't, people are sure to start with the snarky comments "AGAIN!?" etc. Then again that happens anyway. It's a moot point though, because as I've repeatedly said, this is the end of it.

 

[Win]

Nick, the next time you or a family member want to buy a new car, consider buying a cheap rental property at the same time, or just instead (even better).

Make them part of the same deal, and when the note is paid and the car is pretty much worth zero, which any car will be at the end of a 72 or 84 month note, you'll have a piece of property that is paid for and paying you money and depreciation.

Then you won't have to worry about things like "credit" scores because you'll have this thing called collateral, which beats a credit score like a full house beats two of a kind.

 

[coolbird101]

Nick,- nice fleet...
Hokiefyd,- Dave Ramsey for the win..

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Hokiefyd, I totally agree with that.
I understand why Nick would be frustrated because he never asked for help with managing debt, but on the other hand he does mention finances in every single thread about new car purchases and reasons for making the decisions.

This is an open forum and given the information all sorts of responses are to be expected. Notice that in other new car threads, where finances are never mentioned, besides maybe the price of the car, the topic never comes up. Is it a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not

.


+1. There are some people here that like to get snarky with the "financial wisdom," however if the OP doesn't like the snark, then why advance the conversation to the point where financial details are disclosed? If you don't like it, don't go there, IMO.

 

[rjundi]

I rented one of these. They are nice vehicles!

Not sure why you post the fiancees of your parents purchase.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: bustednutz
But most need it broken down to its simplest form and are told debt is bad, and they are made to feel bad for having it. Your told to stop the spending and start the saving. Pretty simplistic attitude. If you get out of the box and really see how money works and flows they'll see things in a whole new light.


I couldn't agree with you more. The "debt = bad" mantra is about as wore out around here as Jiffy Lube's 3000 mile OCI deal.




Debt isn't bad, debt is a useful tool. The problem is a lot of people abuse it.

For example GM offers 0% still on most vehicle purchases on notes 60 months or less.

This is a great deal, I wouldn't buy a new GM vehicle without taking advantage of it.

Dave Ramsey is an idiot as well, I don't subscribe to his stuff at all. Most of his stuff is very simplistic.

 

[pandus13]

Nick,
sorry for the this long post. here it goes:
-congrats to your folks on the new purchase. thank you pop for his service.
-congrats on your focus. please enjoy.
-congrats (it seems like nobody read that part) on your $600/month you put your 401k and roth ira. i remember you're 21-22 so by any dave ramsey standards you are ahead of at least 90% of your generation.
-congrats on you growing up. no i'm not contentious: your current posts are a bit different from your "i need to change the car because..." period. so yes you did grow up.

a few things I saw during this thread:
- pop_rivit, bill in utah, overkill and jhrz2 all got onto the same page, just different ways of saying it
- hokiefd got the best approach in a very peaceful, clear, "talk to kindergarten-level" approach to a problem.
- win had a very good idea too (also in a peaceful manner)
- lots of members got happy about your folks purchase.
- some members got you scolded
- some members got you scolded and still cared for your well being.

so in the end we are a big happy family , so please don't be a stranger.

 

[Vikas]

wow! Where have you been hiding? We desperately need somebody like you to be more active here. Between Hoki and you, I am not sure who should get the best post award here. I am going to declare both to be "Number One".

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

Debt isn't bad, debt is a useful tool. The problem is a lot of people abuse it.

For example GM offers 0% still on most vehicle purchases on notes 60 months or less.

This is a great deal, I wouldn't buy a new GM vehicle without taking advantage of it.

Dave Ramsey is an idiot as well, I don't subscribe to his stuff at all. Most of his stuff is very simplistic.


Dave Ramsey dumbs down managing money to people who are totally unable to handle their finances. All cash into envelopes each month? Not for me. Everything goes on a cash rewards credit card and gets paid off at the end of each month. I get 1%-5% back, purchase protection if I need it, and the security of not being out any money if I lose my wallet. And why outlay a bunch of cash for a vehicle when GM is financing it at 0% for me?

People make blanketed statements about EVERYTHING - politics, cars, etc. It's like everything has to be black and white, never a gray area.

 

[itguy08]

Nick,
Congrats on the cars. Not going to touch the financial aspects as everyone's situation is different and some posts smack of more jealousy than helpful advice.

Originally Posted By: Win
Nick, the next time you or a family member want to buy a new car, consider buying a cheap rental property at the same time, or just instead (even better). Make them part of the same deal, and when the note is paid and the car is pretty much worth zero, which any car will be at the end of a 72 or 84 month note, you'll have a piece of property that is paid for and paying you money and depreciation.


And that cheap rental property will most likely need major repairs over 72 or 84 months. There is a reason it is so cheap...

And at the end of 72 months not every car will be worthless. In January, 2004 I bought a brand new Infiniti G35. Paid $32,500 for it. On December 22, 2009 (1 month shy of 72 months) and 98k later I Traded it in on my 2010 SHO. Got $7300 for it at the dealer. Hardly worthless as it was paid off (since Feb 2009) and I doubt another month would have taken much more off it.

It's even better for trucks - I've been looking and people want crazy $$ for old trucks. And they get it too...

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: GMFan
Did the Chevy dealership bring you a cappuccino this time instead of a coffee?

I'd think by now a hand-job would be in order!

 

[jigen]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Did the Chevy dealership bring you a cappuccino this time instead of a coffee?

I'd think by now a hand-job would be in order!


I almost spit my drink out! LOL!

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: jigen
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Did the Chevy dealership bring you a cappuccino this time instead of a coffee?

I'd think by now a hand-job would be in order!


I almost spit my drink out! LOL!


Your not the only one.

 

[97tbird]

^ It's "You're", not "your" !

Anyway...
While I may not agree with all car buying/financing decisions Nick's and Nick's family made in the (recent) past, some of the attacks and harsh comments are just disgusting. It's almost as if people are ganging up on him just to 'enjoy' the meanness of it.

There are ways to show disagreement, and some of the ways on display in this thread are sadly not very decent.

 

[Dave Hess]

Just drive and enjoy the SUV !!!!

 

[Cutehumor]

Nick, enjoy the SUV. I don't want to sound snooty, but if you have a new car itch again. try renting the vehicle first to see if it's worth it. I plan on doing it myself to satisfy my new car itch that needs a scratch every once a while.