Yeah, reliability ratings on a car that is BRAND NEW!
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Hello?
2013 Focus ST
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Yeah, reliability ratings on a car that is BRAND NEW!
Hello?
Hello back to you!
I am cognizant of the fact that the 2013 Focus is a new model. However, if one would go back for a period of 35 years and compare the historical reliability ratings of the cars Ford has offered as competition to compete with the Japanese benchmarks in this segment (Corolla and Civic), the Ford models do not stack up well from a reliability perspective. The latest ratings for the Focus do not bode well for the argument that "American cars are just as good as the Japanese"
Are you aware of a breakthrough Ford has implemented for this model that will make it as reliable as a Civic or Corolla? If so, please share it with us!! They have failed to match the reliability of the best Japanese cars in this segment for nearly 40 years and I do not expect it to change simply because it is "a new model".
Moreover, I encourage you to visit your public library and review the CR reliability ratings for the Pinto, Escort and Focus and compare them to the Corolla and Civic for the last 35 years. Past performance is not an indicator of future results, but I don't expect anything to change soon.
Yeah, reliability ratings on a car that is BRAND NEW!
Hello?
Hello back to you!
I am cognizant of the fact that the 2013 Focus is a new model. However, if one would go back for a period of 35 years and compare the historical reliability ratings of the cars Ford has offered as competition to compete with the Japanese benchmarks in this segment (Corolla and Civic), the Ford models do not stack up well from a reliability perspective. The latest ratings for the Focus do not bode well for the argument that "American cars are just as good as the Japanese"
Are you aware of a breakthrough Ford has implemented for this model that will make it as reliable as a Civic or Corolla? If so, please share it with us!! They have failed to match the reliability of the best Japanese cars in this segment for nearly 40 years and I do not expect it to change simply because it is "a new model".
Moreover, I encourage you to visit your public library and review the CR reliability ratings for the Pinto, Escort and Focus and compare them to the Corolla and Civic for the last 35 years. Past performance is not an indicator of future results, but I don't expect anything to change soon.
Yes, and this^^^^ above is EXACTLY the attitude I speak of when I mention the Nippon brand/nameplate 'brainwashing' of the U.S. public, and what would keep all of the lemmings from even giving the domestic nameplates a chance, even if they were 100X as good/"reliable" as the deified and 'sacred' Nippon/Korean nameplates.
^^^Absolutely agreed.
Sucks for him, as we more open minded drivers have many more interesting choices!
Sucks for him, as we more open minded drivers have many more interesting choices!
I don't like how Ford, in typical Ford fashion, dropped a lot of random-looking rubber/wire spaghetti over the engine. It looks like a maintenance headache a few years down the road, just like the 1995 Escort I serviced that had many issues related to that rubber spaghetti coming disconnected (via dry-rot mainly). Finding where a particular hose went when it's laying on the engine was a riot.
Nice car, I'd get one if the price were right, but definitely not the friendliest when it comes to maintaining it a few years down the road.
Nice car, I'd get one if the price were right, but definitely not the friendliest when it comes to maintaining it a few years down the road.
It's a fact of life. It's harder to win BACK a customer than it is to keep an existing one or earn a new customer.
This is the natural consequence of the previous generations of cars.
Think of it this way. If your wife or girlfriend cheats on you, are you going to rush back into a relationship with her? Probably not. You may never go back, no matter how much she has cleaned up her act.
The same applies in the marketplace. Get treated badly by a company and I think long and hard before I do business with them again.
There is a local department store and a few electronics vendors who I avoid like the plague for their treatment 20 some years ago.
There are too many other good choices out there to even consider going back.
It's not brain-washing. It's avoiding repeating past pain.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Yes, and this^^^^ above is EXACTLY the attitude I speak of when I mention the Nippon brand/nameplate 'brainwashing' of the U.S. public, and what would keep all of the lemmings from even giving the domestic nameplates a chance, even if they were 100X as good/"reliable" as the deified and 'sacred' Nippon/Korean nameplates.
This is the natural consequence of the previous generations of cars.
Think of it this way. If your wife or girlfriend cheats on you, are you going to rush back into a relationship with her? Probably not. You may never go back, no matter how much she has cleaned up her act.
The same applies in the marketplace. Get treated badly by a company and I think long and hard before I do business with them again.
There is a local department store and a few electronics vendors who I avoid like the plague for their treatment 20 some years ago.
There are too many other good choices out there to even consider going back.
It's not brain-washing. It's avoiding repeating past pain.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Yes, and this^^^^ above is EXACTLY the attitude I speak of when I mention the Nippon brand/nameplate 'brainwashing' of the U.S. public, and what would keep all of the lemmings from even giving the domestic nameplates a chance, even if they were 100X as good/"reliable" as the deified and 'sacred' Nippon/Korean nameplates.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
It's a fact of life. It's harder to win BACK a customer than it is to keep an existing one or earn a new customer.
This is the natural consequence of the previous generations of cars.
Think of it this way. If your wife or girlfriend cheats on you, are you going to rush back into a relationship with her? Probably not. You may never go back, no matter how much she has cleaned up her act.
The same applies in the marketplace. Get treated badly by a company and I think long and hard before I do business with them again.
There is a local department store and a few electronics vendors who I avoid like the plague for their treatment 20 some years ago.
There are too many other good choices out there to even consider going back.
It's not brain-washing. It's avoiding repeating past pain.
Fair enough.
BUT, what about those who have NEVER OWNED A DOMESTIC IN THEIR LIFE, and who don't even know anyone who has??!! (Belive me, they DO exist around here, but maybe not where you are.
)
WHAT is their "past pain" reference point which keeps them from even considering a domestic nameplate at all?
It's a fact of life. It's harder to win BACK a customer than it is to keep an existing one or earn a new customer.
This is the natural consequence of the previous generations of cars.
Think of it this way. If your wife or girlfriend cheats on you, are you going to rush back into a relationship with her? Probably not. You may never go back, no matter how much she has cleaned up her act.
The same applies in the marketplace. Get treated badly by a company and I think long and hard before I do business with them again.
There is a local department store and a few electronics vendors who I avoid like the plague for their treatment 20 some years ago.
There are too many other good choices out there to even consider going back.
It's not brain-washing. It's avoiding repeating past pain.
Fair enough.
BUT, what about those who have NEVER OWNED A DOMESTIC IN THEIR LIFE, and who don't even know anyone who has??!! (Belive me, they DO exist around here, but maybe not where you are.
WHAT is their "past pain" reference point which keeps them from even considering a domestic nameplate at all?
The other natural consequence is that many children tend to buy what their parents buy. So if mom and dad suffered through the cars of the 70's and 80's and turned to Asian makes, they likely either handed down cars or bought Asian cars for their kids.
By proxy, the "domestic" automakers lose the next generation too.
Of course, the bias goes both ways. You have many who say they will never buy a car from XYZ because of whatever reason they list.
Bias exists. Sometimes you can overcome it. Other times you can't. If the bias is unfounded, then the big loser is the one with the bias as they miss out on a better product.
This is true regardless which side you are on the "foreign" or "domestic" debate.
By proxy, the "domestic" automakers lose the next generation too.
Of course, the bias goes both ways. You have many who say they will never buy a car from XYZ because of whatever reason they list.
Bias exists. Sometimes you can overcome it. Other times you can't. If the bias is unfounded, then the big loser is the one with the bias as they miss out on a better product.
This is true regardless which side you are on the "foreign" or "domestic" debate.
Originally Posted By: Joe1
I am cognizant of the fact that the 2013 Focus is a new model. However, if one would go back for a period of 35 years and compare the historical reliability ratings of the cars Ford has offered as competition to compete with the Japanese benchmarks in this segment (Corolla and Civic), the Ford models do not stack up well from a reliability perspective. The latest ratings for the Focus do not bode well for the argument that "American cars are just as good as the Japanese"
Please explain how Honda Odysseys, Accords, Acura TL, and TSX models with the 5 speed transmission got stellar reliability ratings? It is widely known that those transmission may be made of glass and do not last. Honda was forced to recall them and extend warranty out on them. Many put more than 1 in their cars and still believe Honda is the most reliable car out there?
Sorry, Honda and Toyota are no better or worse than the rest. When you are told something is ultra reliable you tend to sweep things under the rug.
Not to mention everyone forgets how abysmal early Hondas and Toyota's were. Yes my dear they were as bad as the domestics.
I had a bad Ford. Got an Infiniti and it was a good car. The wife got an Escape a year earlier. It has been reliable for us too, as reliable as the Infiniti. I bought a Taurus SHO at the end of 09. Brand new model. 49k now and it's been fine. A few minor first year issues, but I remember reading of issues with the 03 G35 too.
I am cognizant of the fact that the 2013 Focus is a new model. However, if one would go back for a period of 35 years and compare the historical reliability ratings of the cars Ford has offered as competition to compete with the Japanese benchmarks in this segment (Corolla and Civic), the Ford models do not stack up well from a reliability perspective. The latest ratings for the Focus do not bode well for the argument that "American cars are just as good as the Japanese"
Please explain how Honda Odysseys, Accords, Acura TL, and TSX models with the 5 speed transmission got stellar reliability ratings? It is widely known that those transmission may be made of glass and do not last. Honda was forced to recall them and extend warranty out on them. Many put more than 1 in their cars and still believe Honda is the most reliable car out there?
Sorry, Honda and Toyota are no better or worse than the rest. When you are told something is ultra reliable you tend to sweep things under the rug.
Not to mention everyone forgets how abysmal early Hondas and Toyota's were. Yes my dear they were as bad as the domestics.
I had a bad Ford. Got an Infiniti and it was a good car. The wife got an Escape a year earlier. It has been reliable for us too, as reliable as the Infiniti. I bought a Taurus SHO at the end of 09. Brand new model. 49k now and it's been fine. A few minor first year issues, but I remember reading of issues with the 03 G35 too.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Sorry, Honda and Toyota are no better or worse than the rest. When you are told something is ultra reliable you tend to sweep things under the rug.
Not to mention everyone forgets how abysmal early Hondas and Toyota's were. Yes my dear they were as bad as the domestics.
And actually, they were MUCH worse than the domestics when they first started being sold here, but most of the younger import fanboiezz do not even know about, let alone remember the 'great' Toyopets, and Coronas of yore.
They were rustbuckets which fell apart as their owners were driving them down the road, and their mechanicals were not much better. So much for their Nippon "epitome of perfection".
But of course, this does not count since we can forgive and forget foreign entities' mistakes and failures, but heaven help a domestic company for committing the same said 'crimes'.
Also, it is 'common knowledge', and we all KNOW that import nameplates MUST BE the infallible 'top of the heap' since EVERYONE "says so".
Sorry, Honda and Toyota are no better or worse than the rest. When you are told something is ultra reliable you tend to sweep things under the rug.
Not to mention everyone forgets how abysmal early Hondas and Toyota's were. Yes my dear they were as bad as the domestics.
And actually, they were MUCH worse than the domestics when they first started being sold here, but most of the younger import fanboiezz do not even know about, let alone remember the 'great' Toyopets, and Coronas of yore.
They were rustbuckets which fell apart as their owners were driving them down the road, and their mechanicals were not much better. So much for their Nippon "epitome of perfection".
But of course, this does not count since we can forgive and forget foreign entities' mistakes and failures, but heaven help a domestic company for committing the same said 'crimes'.
Also, it is 'common knowledge', and we all KNOW that import nameplates MUST BE the infallible 'top of the heap' since EVERYONE "says so".
The new Focus, Cruze and Dart are not American-designed cars.
The Focus was designed in Germany; it is just built in the USA.
The Cruze was designed in Germany and Korea; it is just built in the USA.
The Dart is based on an Alfa Romeo, but is built in the USA.
There is not a single small car specifically designed and built in America.
The Focus was designed in Germany; it is just built in the USA.
The Cruze was designed in Germany and Korea; it is just built in the USA.
The Dart is based on an Alfa Romeo, but is built in the USA.
There is not a single small car specifically designed and built in America.
Originally Posted By: kkspeed
The new Focus, Cruze and Dart are not American-designed cars.
The Focus was designed in Germany; it is just built in the USA.
The Cruze was designed in Germany and Korea; it is just built in the USA.
The Dart is based on an Alfa Romeo, but is built in the USA.
There is not a single small car specifically designed and built in America.
I'm sort of glad for that. It means that we finally have smaller cars that are not penalty boxes. The Detroit 3 were content with foisting awful smaller cars onto us to persuade us to buy a more profitable large sedan or SUV. That's not so true now that they have figured out how to make a profit on smaller cars by designing one good smaller car for the entire world.
If I recall correctly, at least for GM and Ford, the sales numbers of the new "global" cars are up over the numbers for the US-only smaller cars.
The new Focus, Cruze and Dart are not American-designed cars.
The Focus was designed in Germany; it is just built in the USA.
The Cruze was designed in Germany and Korea; it is just built in the USA.
The Dart is based on an Alfa Romeo, but is built in the USA.
There is not a single small car specifically designed and built in America.
I'm sort of glad for that. It means that we finally have smaller cars that are not penalty boxes. The Detroit 3 were content with foisting awful smaller cars onto us to persuade us to buy a more profitable large sedan or SUV. That's not so true now that they have figured out how to make a profit on smaller cars by designing one good smaller car for the entire world.
If I recall correctly, at least for GM and Ford, the sales numbers of the new "global" cars are up over the numbers for the US-only smaller cars.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It means that we finally have smaller cars that are not penalty boxes.
So true. The so-called "small cars" that we have been offered have been pitiful at best when compared with Europe's offerings.
It means that we finally have smaller cars that are not penalty boxes.
So true. The so-called "small cars" that we have been offered have been pitiful at best when compared with Europe's offerings.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: Rand
i wouldnt call cars near 30k econoboxes.
Is that how much that Focus costs?! Forget it then. I'll take a Subaru BR-Z please.
Comparing a BR-Z to a focus hatchback? Completely bad comparison. Focus is actually usable for everyday stuff, has plenty of room to haul stuff, and put people in. The BRZ? Not so much.
Nick, Motor Trend just did a comparison on both of these vehicles. They both look pretty good.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/overview/1303_2013_ford_focus_st_2013_subaru_brz/viewall.html
Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: Rand
i wouldnt call cars near 30k econoboxes.
Is that how much that Focus costs?! Forget it then. I'll take a Subaru BR-Z please.
Comparing a BR-Z to a focus hatchback? Completely bad comparison. Focus is actually usable for everyday stuff, has plenty of room to haul stuff, and put people in. The BRZ? Not so much.
Nick, Motor Trend just did a comparison on both of these vehicles. They both look pretty good.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/overview/1303_2013_ford_focus_st_2013_subaru_brz/viewall.html
Both should be fun, though quite different. But it's a pity how heavy most modern small cars have become:
Focus ST curb weight 3,193 lbs?
Focus ST curb weight 3,193 lbs?
wow, who'd thought that the Focus would have better skidpad G's, braking and other track data...very interesting indeed.
I simply cannot see the Toyota/Subaru twins as being even remotely comparable to a Focus ST.
FWD turbocharged versus RWD n/a???
Ford really delivered on the ST, the only problem is on a track the boost is quickly pulled back. All the advertised hp is only for 20 seconds!
FWD turbocharged versus RWD n/a???
Ford really delivered on the ST, the only problem is on a track the boost is quickly pulled back. All the advertised hp is only for 20 seconds!
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
wow, who'd thought that the Focus would have better skidpad G's, braking and other track data...very interesting indeed.
Yup. Pretty neat little car. Still didn't beat the BRZ but not a bad showing. I like it.
wow, who'd thought that the Focus would have better skidpad G's, braking and other track data...very interesting indeed.
Yup. Pretty neat little car. Still didn't beat the BRZ but not a bad showing. I like it.
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Both should be fun, though quite different. But it's a pity how heavy most modern small cars have become:
Focus ST curb weight 3,193 lbs?
Thank all the safety regulations. TONS of mandatory gear and it gets bigger every year.
Both should be fun, though quite different. But it's a pity how heavy most modern small cars have become:
Focus ST curb weight 3,193 lbs?
Thank all the safety regulations. TONS of mandatory gear and it gets bigger every year.
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