2012 Mustang GT w- Oil Jets; Heavier Viscosity OK?

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Originally Posted By: rodinator1234
You'r not going to get a definitive answer. Everything is purely speculative and your question begs more questions.
Does your car have billet oil pump gears? If not or you don't know I would sure do some research on OPG failure in modded 5.0 coyote motors.
If your car really does have 705 rwhp, if it's a manual with 15% parasitic driveline loss that is about 810hp at the crank. I would definitely do some research on the life expectancy of 5.0 coyote motors when they are pushed to those levels. Most do not survive at that power level long. The rods are too weak.
Does your car have a catch can?
Stock head bolts?
No boost gauge?
Just FYI there were some changes made to the 13-14 Coyote to help prevent the notorious #8 cylinder failure issue that was so prevalent on the 11-12 cars.
Not knowing who tuned the car would scare the heck out of me.
IMO I would run M1 0w40, and call it a day.


The dealership which I acquired this from gave me a bit of background of the gentleman who had it prior (lets just say it put confidence in my purchase, though they had to contact him to answer some questions I had about the car, as he keeps his contact info private and is very busy) and seeing the dealership printed sticker including the supercharger and other mods that were done by the Ford dealer prior to him even taking delivery of it new....it all holds water. It was apparently tuned by a performance shop a few states away. Upon looking over the car even more, I can tell this literally was his car and coffee cruiser that he took to shows and drove sparingly.

I'm no mechanic, nor generally work on my own vehicles, but I can generally tell from driving and racing experience if something is amiss. My background of driving experience and ownership falls to American Muscle Cars, as well as German and Italian performance cars, naturally aspirated, turbo, supercharged, & nitrous oxide equipped. My take is the tune is good. It's the smoothest Muscle Car I've personally driven and owned.

The car is said to have made 705 hp at the engine, so I am within safe parameters due to a very likely on point tune, given this mans history. Yes, it was a bit unsettling at first but as I gathered more information prior to pulling the trigger, I ended up jumping at the opportunity. I was blessed to get this car for a very very low price considering I purchased it at a large dealership, with the low miles, mods and stellar condition it is in. It also has some minor suspension component mods, and some other pricey add ons which I got all for the low price of about $1,500- above fair market value for a car without all this done. I've access to the Worlds largest auto auction here in PA, so wholesale was an option, but this would have brought more than I paid at a highline sale.

Stock Rods? Probably.

Catch Can - Yes, it came with a JLT Performance one. Plus I just ordered the updated 3.0 version yesterday too, as the old one angled over the paint matched valve covers; I prefer the new location of the updated one as the original owner got the best available at the time, straight up and down is best anyhow in my opinion.

As for oil pump gears, I can't say, however the way I do maintenance and preventative stuff, it will get them very shortly if it doesn't. This car was built right, and I was blown away at the bargain. It fit the order nicely for what I desired to get it for.

Regarding the head bolts, again, no idea, however Ford did design this kit to be put on an otherwise stock car. It has a few minor mods and the tune which pushed it up to the 705 hp at the engine. Drives like stock but sounds better. Blows away all but the most expensive factory cars, or the most hyper worked street cars, so I am not complaining.

Depending on the oil analysis results I'll consider going to the 5W-30, MAYBE 40 weight. But with an oil cooler first, with the 5W-20 and future gauge addition to SEE what is actually going on....that's the best plan of action at this point and moving ahead.

Never had I thought there would be a HUGE forum for oil specific things until I happened on this nice little site a couple weeks ago or so. Glad I did, it's been a good source to draw from.

Cheers!
 
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[/Quote]Oil squirters have been mentioned a hundred times in this thread so I'll address them directly. Oil squirters are nothing new or special in factory engines and I'm not sure why so much emphasis have been put on them in this thread. My factory SR20DET had them and they weren't unhappy with any oil choice or temp even with 2.5 times the original output. In fact, in my 500hp 4g63 I built, I REMOVED the oil squirters because the forged pistons I was using didn't need them and the stroker pistons wouldn't physically fit with them in place. They dissipated heat much better and after porting the oil relief bypass valve, the oil pressure was nearly the same as stock.


My point is you can make a ton of power on whatever oil, with or without oil squirters, but that's the least of your worries for longevity with your setup. [/quote]



Which is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Higher horesepower, tested and so on. Good to know! Thank you kindly.
 
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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Originally Posted By: rodinator1234
You'r not going to get a definitive answer. Everything is purely speculative and your question begs more questions.
Does your car have billet oil pump gears? If not or you don't know I would sure do some research on OPG failure in modded 5.0 coyote motors.
If your car really does have 705 rwhp, if it's a manual with 15% parasitic driveline loss that is about 810hp at the crank. I would definitely do some research on the life expectancy of 5.0 coyote motors when they are pushed to those levels. Most do not survive at that power level long. The rods are too weak.
Does your car have a catch can?
Stock head bolts?
No boost gauge?
Just FYI there were some changes made to the 13-14 Coyote to help prevent the notorious #8 cylinder failure issue that was so prevalent on the 11-12 cars.
Not knowing who tuned the car would scare the heck out of me.
IMO I would run M1 0w40, and call it a day.


The oil pump gears are something I mentioned in an earlier post changing them out to billet gears is a must with a blown Coyote! Your comments on high HP and the rods is quite correct pushing the bottom half of the Coyote above 600 HP at the rear wheels is just asking for a short life on stock pistons and rods. There were other changes made to the Coyote 5.0 in 2013 not only were the piston squirtrs deleted but the piston and all the rings were all changed. Ford had issues with the early piston/ring design.

I looked into adding a supercharger to my 2013 5.0 GT but the only way I would do it is with a forged bottom end as well as many other upgrades and to do it right is just to costly.


If you do get a supercharger, seriously consider the 2.3L Twin Screw type....its like a naturally aspirated car as far as driving until uber high boost...then hang on.
smile.gif
But the difference is the torque down low is nuts so no 1st-2nd gear antics on the street unless you like buying tires every month.
 
Originally Posted By: KL31
Just my 2 cents on gauge choice. I've gone digital and for something that rises slowly like temp gauges, I really like the digital over analogue. Fyi I have a digital oil temp display and an analogue water temp display. Digital hands down. As for oil pressure or boost, that's a different story!



Thanks for the tips!

Honestly I'll probably not run one for boost. I do understand there are reasons to run one to diagnose certain things, but its a fixed pully...its not going to go up or down, and if there is an issue with those set ups you'd know with or without a gauge anyhow.

I'm still thinking center pod, or pillar.....hmmmm...decisions...decisions.
 
Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
My Mustang is supercharged & Dyno'd at 705 hp for the previous owner.


As soon as a read that I knew 5W-20 was out the window.
 
Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
So....thinner oil obviously flows better and carries away more dirt and contaminants out of our engines better too.


???

How do you reason that ?

Where are the dirt and contaminants coming from, and in an equivalent volumed sump, where do they go ?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
So....thinner oil obviously flows better and carries away more dirt and contaminants out of our engines better too.


???

How do you reason that ?

Where are the dirt and contaminants coming from, and in an equivalent volumed sump, where do they go ?


Shannow is right. At operating temperatures, scalding hot 30wt,40wt, etc are all very thin and are more than capable for flow and thicker is even BETTER if you need them for heat management for forced induction with the wick turned up.

As for as contaminate removal the same principal applies. Hot oil flows very quickly and a 20wt isn't going to clean or get in anywhere that a hot 40wt can't.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
My Mustang is supercharged & Dyno'd at 705 hp for the previous owner.


As soon as a read that I knew 5W-20 was out the window.

Yeah, I'd have to agree w Merk on that one. But if you're driving it like a grandma, 5W-20 will work. If you get your foot in it more often, go 5W-30 - if you drive it to the max routinely, then 0W-40. 5W-50 or 15W-50 M1 if it sees road race track days.
 
Originally Posted By: FastLane
My 2002 4.6 has been running Mobil 1 5W30 for 181,000 km's with no issue.....


With a positive displacement blower making over twice the horsepower as factory?
 
I'm very surprised that Ford used a 20 grade oil in this engine in 2012 and if you want to know which oil is best, just use the Motorcraft oil finder as it should have an engine specific recommendation.

It would be interesting to see what the Castrol and Mobil oil finders in the UK (Use the .co.uk site) list, as that will be based on the design oil spec in viscosity terms.

Tuned up engines that use a non OEM turbo or blower do tend to both fry (High temp shearing) and contaminate their oils, so the OCI should be kept short (Depends on right boot size to some extent) and it is very important to make sure the upper cylinder oil jets stay clear of varnish. Same goes for the oil feed line to the turbo or blower.
Oil flow rates are very important for this type of engine, so going thick might not be an option.

Obviously if you own an expensive race car and want to experiment with different oils or viscosity ranges, getting a few oil lab reports is essential, as the so called best oil will depend on the condition of the block and how the car is driven. Even the type of fuel can effect oil selection.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
I'm very surprised that Ford used a 20 grade oil in this engine in 2012 and if you want to know which oil is best, just use the Motorcraft oil finder as it should have an engine specific recommendation.


That wouldn't be that helpful in this case. The oil finder is going to tell you what is specified for a 2012 Mustang GT. This heavy modified motor has very different properties than the original one and after adding, heat, boost, fuel, bearing loads..... it may as well be a different car.
 
If the engine runs hotter, is over boosted and contaminates the oil with fuel all you need do is to use the best full synthetic race oil available and then base the OCI on the UOA results. If it shows more than 2% fuel, then either reduce the OCI or think about moving up one grade.

It's worth fitting a CHT gauge to highly tuned engines, as that can help figure out if you are overheating the upper cylinder area better than an oil temp or coolant temp one.

Obviously I would favour the use of a real full synthetic or GTL base oil in a hot runner, so take a look at the Penn and Liqui Moly oil finders.
LM are very good at figuring out which oil is the best one, so I would mail their German R&D chaps. Wild guess but they might say Synthoil High Tech 5w40, rather than one of their race oils which might be too thick for the cooling flow rate through the jets.
Synthoil HT does not contain Moly as it's not an essential ingrediant in a group 4 that has a good slug of Zinc and Boron, BUT I did improve the UOA wear figures by using Ceratec, so they might list that oil additive, as it is used by some German boy racers to good effect. They tend to use thin oils due to the need for high upper cylinder flow rates, BUT then try to reduce the main bearing wear rates with extra AW additives.

PS: If you are looking at race engine UOA's don't forget that some folks use anti knock fuel additives that contain Lead. That's why many drivers and race fans act like lunatics on the public roads, cos the Lead in the exhaust gas causes brain damage!
 
What oil to run besides the manufacturers recommendation all depends on what the expected oil temperature is going to be. Many car manufactures will recommend a heaver oil for sustained track use for instance - usually a Xw-40 or Xw-50.

If you don't expect to do much more than punch that 700 HP supercharged Coyote for 10~15 seconds at a time on the street (or even the 1/4 mile drag strip) then Ford's recommended 5W-20 will probably be just fine because the oil temperature will never get much higher than seen in normal street driving.

But if you were to take it on a road course and beat the engine for 30~40 minutes and get the oil much hotter than normal street driving would get it, then using a heavier motor oil (and maybe also a better oil cooler) would give much needed insurance to keep bearing minimum oil film thickness in a safe zone.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
So....thinner oil obviously flows better and carries away more dirt and contaminants out of our engines better too.


???

How do you reason that ?

Where are the dirt and contaminants coming from, and in an equivalent volumed sump, where do they go ?


OK, to be forthright I was just repeating something I was told from a Corporate Ford employee at the Ford Racing Performance Division after I tried to get some deeper understanding myself. Contaminants in the oil? Same place as usual for any engine....
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
What oil to run besides the manufacturers recommendation all depends on what the expected oil temperature is going to be. Many car manufactures will recommend a heaver oil for sustained track use for instance - usually a Xw-40 or Xw-50.

If you don't expect to do much more than punch that 700 HP supercharged Coyote for 10~15 seconds at a time on the street (or even the 1/4 mile drag strip) then Ford's recommended 5W-20 will probably be just fine because the oil temperature will never get much higher than seen in normal street driving.

But if you were to take it on a road course and beat the engine for 30~40 minutes and get the oil much hotter than normal street driving would get it, then using a heavier motor oil (and maybe also a better oil cooler) would give much needed insurance to keep bearing minimum oil film thickness in a safe zone.


+1

THIS! Thank you Vette guy. That is indeed my MO at the present time and will adjust accordingly should that change.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If the engine runs hotter, is over boosted and contaminates the oil with fuel all you need do is to use the best full synthetic race oil available and then base the OCI on the UOA results. If it shows more than 2% fuel, then either reduce the OCI or think about moving up one grade.

It's worth fitting a CHT gauge to highly tuned engines, as that can help figure out if you are overheating the upper cylinder area better than an oil temp or coolant temp one.

Obviously I would favour the use of a real full synthetic or GTL base oil in a hot runner, so take a look at the Penn and Liqui Moly oil finders.
LM are very good at figuring out which oil is the best one, so I would mail their German R&D chaps. Wild guess but they might say Synthoil High Tech 5w40, rather than one of their race oils which might be too thick for the cooling flow rate through the jets.
Synthoil HT does not contain Moly as it's not an essential ingrediant in a group 4 that has a good slug of Zinc and Boron, BUT I did improve the UOA wear figures by using Ceratec, so they might list that oil additive, as it is used by some German boy racers to good effect. They tend to use thin oils due to the need for high upper cylinder flow rates, BUT then try to reduce the main bearing wear rates with extra AW additives.

PS: If you are looking at race engine UOA's don't forget that some folks use anti knock fuel additives that contain Lead. That's why many drivers and race fans act like lunatics on the public roads, cos the Lead in the exhaust gas causes brain damage!


Hahaha right on mate! Good read indeed. Thanks for the intelligent response and information.

I will keep all of that in mind. Very good advice!
 
I'll pick the brains of those folks too. I forgot about them doing myriad Ford stuff. Thanks bro.
 
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