2011 Tundra, Amsoil 0W-20 (ASM), 5K mi., TBN & TAN

[btanchors]

Hello all,

Submitted for your consideration is the latest UOA on my 2011 Tundra with 5.7L V8 engine. This is the first UOA using Amsoil; all UOAs prior to this were with Mobil 1 0W-20 SN.

For your convenience, links to the VOAs of these oils are given below:

Mobil 1 SN 0W-20 VOA
Amsoil ASM 0W-20 VOA

Discussion:

As predicted during previous discussions in this forum, there is no significant difference in wear metal levels between this run with Amsoil vs. previous runs with Mobil 1.

Also, as I was duly warned by others on previous discussions, I do not think this UOA proves anything regarding whether Amsoil holds up better or worse than Mobil 1. I didn't really expect it to at only 5K miles, although I am mildly surprised the TBN wasn't higher than 3.4.

Other observations:

1) It is interesting to compare the behavior of the TAN levels. In all cases with Mobil 1, the TAN in the UOAs was about the same (in one case) or significantly higher than the VOA. But in the case of Amsoil, the TAN was significantly lower than in the VOA. Of course, The TAN started out higher in the Amsoil. I'd be interested in hearing comments on this from others - I am not sure what this means, if anything.

2) Oil consumption seemed significantly higher during this run. Although no make-up oil was added at all during the interval, the oil level was a good full quart low, perhaps even a bit more than a quart low. This level of consumption is at least double what it has been in the past on this vehicle. I will be watching this carefully. So in other words, it seemed that when I changed to Amsoil oil consumption at least doubled. I can't figure out why this would happen - if anything the Amsoil is very slightly thicker than the Mobil 1. I did carefully check under the engine - there are no leaks, in fact underside of the engine is bone dry and quite clean. Perhaps it is coincidence this happened when I switched to the Amsoil? I have switched one other vehicle to the Amsoil ASM product, and two others now running the ASL product, and no increased oil consumption has been noted on those vehicles.

Future plans: I did dump this oil after the sample was taken, and I installed fresh Amsoil ASM in it. I plan to take this to 10K miles. I also plan to sample it for UOA at 5K and of course at the 10K mile mark.

 

[Boomer]

And the big question? What is the price differential??

 

[buster]

Thanks for posting, I was waiting to see these results.

TAN is specific to the particular oil. Honestly, I see no reason to use Amsoil over Mobil 1, but it will work well for you regardless.

The Amsoil additive #'s are very similar to Mobil 1 from 2005.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: buster
Thanks for posting, I was waiting to see these results.

TAN is specific to the particular oil. Honestly, I see no reason to use Amsoil over Mobil 1, but it will work well for you regardless.

The Amsoil additive #'s are very similar to Mobil 1 from 2005.


+1 and you said you're using oil now. Sure given time the consumption might go back to the same as it was with Mobli 1, but honestly why bother? I'd switch back to Mobil 1 when you're done with the Amsoil.

 

[OVERKILL]

I had what I consider "high consumption" on my first run of AMSOIL AZO 0w30 in the Expedition. It never consumed any discernible amount on AFE 0w30 or any of the previous oils, but it did on this one. Not something I am worried about however, as I assume it will taper off.

 

[JAG]

Due to how some (acidic) additives change while the oil is in use, the TAN can decrease relative to the VOA TAN for a while. That could be what happened with Amsoil since it obviously uses different additives and/or concentrations than Mobil 1. See here for discussion on this phenomenon: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1052/acid-number-test

 

[dnewton3]

Both oils did a fine job of protecting the engine, even though they are probably different chemically. Both lubes were totally average in wear protection, which is good when speaking of UOAs.

You are way under-utilizing your lubes. I understand the vehicle is under warranty, and you are not likely to extend the OCIs. In that case, why not "experiment" with a qualified dino oil? I suspect you will see the very same excellent performance, for a lot less cost, if 5k mile OCIs are your intent.

 

[INDYMAC]

It sounds like he intends to go with 10K OCI's now. Maybe he was just trying a couple of oils at 5K OCI's to see which one he wants to go with. I think I would use this methodology too.

 

[btanchors]

dnewton3 -

You are right, I am underutilizing these oils. However, now that I have four vehicles in my family's "fleet", I intend to run all four vehicles at 10K, 1 year intervals after the initial change to Amsoil. I just don't have the time to devote to frequent oil changes anymore, which is what is motivating this change. I remember when I enjoyed changing oil and doing maintenance to my vehicles - I still do, but it competes for time between job and family. Plus, at 52 years old, I'm no spring chicken anymore, and the contortions needed to perform some maintenance tasks tend to have lingering effects on my body

When Mobil 1 switched to its SN formulation, it appeared to me that its TBN retention deteriorated somewhat. I have no doubt it can fully support 10K miles, but I'd like a bit more margin, and the Amsoil signature oils are really built for extended intervals. Fortunately, I'm able to pick it up at the warehouse (so no shipping costs) and between that and being a "preferred" customer, it's not that much more expensive than Mobil 1.

Buster - the fact that you observed Amsoil's additive pack is similar to Mobil 1 from 2005 is a good thing in my mind, as that version of Mobil 1 had better TBN retention, in my opinion.

Another mildly interesting observation - Note the level of Magnesium in this UOA. It's clearly from left over Mobil 1 in the engine. This is despite the fact that I let the oil drain for an hour, after dumping one quart of Amsoil in after the Mobil 1 drained, but with the drain bold off to try to "flush" whatever was left out of the engine and oil pan prior to refilling with the drain bolt on...I know - anal retentive and Obsessive Compulsive. This is why my first interval on the new Amsoil I am draining after only 5K miles, so that the extended interval has 100% Amsoil in it.

 

[buster]

I'm not sure I agree about the Tbn retention, although you may be right.

You could have also used Mobil 1 Extended Performance, which is using the latest additive & base oil technology and good for 15k miles. I don't see the value in Amsoil SS vs M1.

Either way, what you're doing makes sense and you should have no problems going 10k miles.

 

[tig1]

Actually both the reg M1(10K) and the EP version(15K) will go well beyond their warranty coverage.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Actually both the reg M1(10K) and the EP version(15K) will go well beyond their warranty coverage.



I concur, and would add that any quality dino oil could probably go well beyond that 10k mile OCI in a clean running engine. And still have plenty of "margin".

In this situation, with a clean running 5.7L, a dino would likely be underutilized at 10k miles. Using a syn at 10k miles is even more underutilized. And paying for the information to confirm the ability to greatly extend, and yet not doing it, is also underutilizing (or perhaps neglecting info all together). There is value in the UOA by seeing all is OK with the engine. But there is unrealized value in the UOA because it's telling him that you could greatly extend the OCI, well past the human perceived limits.

Regardless; he's apparently happy with what he is doing. Good for him.

But information is slave to no one and yet can serve anyone. This series of UOAs probably makes him happy that his engine is fine. But it tells me that in addition to a fine running engine, he has a wallet that is thinner than necessary. That lesson can be learned by others who don't subscribe to the "more is better" philosophy for every approach.