OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I have no idea bud, AFAIK, it is isn't possible without at least some Group III.
2010 Genesis Coupe 3.8 and Penzoil Ultra...
- Thread starter Insane
- Start date
- Status
OVERKILL, XOM have only just come out with a low vis' high VI oil that meets the Japanese OEM spec's for a 0W-20. The current M1 offering certainly didn't/doesn't meet them.
As far as using Idemitsu over Nippon Oil, I've wondered the same thing particularly in light of the fact that ENEOS was a minor sponsor of the Honda F1 team a couple of years ago. IMO they and Toyota are not married to any particular supplier and any oil formulator can bid for the contract.
Here in Canada, Petro-Canada is the supplier of most of the Honda and Acura Brand oils with some notable exceptions such as the Honda brand 0W-20 and the Acura brand 5W-30 which are made by Idemitsu.
PurplePride, all 0W-XX oils are at least GPIII synthetics, the reason being that you can't meet the 0W cold viscosity requirements otherwise. Now there are those that don't consider GPIII oils to be a "true synthetic" so that may be a reason for the claim.
As far as using Idemitsu over Nippon Oil, I've wondered the same thing particularly in light of the fact that ENEOS was a minor sponsor of the Honda F1 team a couple of years ago. IMO they and Toyota are not married to any particular supplier and any oil formulator can bid for the contract.
Here in Canada, Petro-Canada is the supplier of most of the Honda and Acura Brand oils with some notable exceptions such as the Honda brand 0W-20 and the Acura brand 5W-30 which are made by Idemitsu.
PurplePride, all 0W-XX oils are at least GPIII synthetics, the reason being that you can't meet the 0W cold viscosity requirements otherwise. Now there are those that don't consider GPIII oils to be a "true synthetic" so that may be a reason for the claim.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
OVERKILL, XOM have only just come out with a low vis' high VI oil that meets the Japanese OEM spec's for a 0W-20. The current M1 offering certainly didn't/doesn't meet them.
As far as using Idemitsu over Nippon Oil, I've wondered the same thing particularly in light of the fact that ENEOS was a minor sponsor of the Honda F1 team a couple of years ago. IMO they and Toyota are not married to any particular supplier and any oil formulator can bid for the contract.
Here in Canada, Petro-Canada is the supplier of most of the Honda and Acura Brand oils with some notable exceptions such as the Honda brand 0W-20 and the Acura brand 5W-30 which are made by Idemitsu.
PurplePride, all 0W-XX oils are at least GPIII synthetics, the reason being that you can't meet the 0W cold viscosity requirements otherwise. Now there are those that don't consider GPIII oils to be a "true synthetic" so that may be a reason for the claim.
Is it the SpectraSyn Lo Vis PAO? Because the datasheet says 2008....
Do you have any more info on these Japanese OEM specs? I find it intriguing
OVERKILL, XOM have only just come out with a low vis' high VI oil that meets the Japanese OEM spec's for a 0W-20. The current M1 offering certainly didn't/doesn't meet them.
As far as using Idemitsu over Nippon Oil, I've wondered the same thing particularly in light of the fact that ENEOS was a minor sponsor of the Honda F1 team a couple of years ago. IMO they and Toyota are not married to any particular supplier and any oil formulator can bid for the contract.
Here in Canada, Petro-Canada is the supplier of most of the Honda and Acura Brand oils with some notable exceptions such as the Honda brand 0W-20 and the Acura brand 5W-30 which are made by Idemitsu.
PurplePride, all 0W-XX oils are at least GPIII synthetics, the reason being that you can't meet the 0W cold viscosity requirements otherwise. Now there are those that don't consider GPIII oils to be a "true synthetic" so that may be a reason for the claim.
Is it the SpectraSyn Lo Vis PAO? Because the datasheet says 2008....
Do you have any more info on these Japanese OEM specs? I find it intriguing
Thanks for the replies guys. What I think I'm going to do is go with 5W-30 PU on the next change, and see how the UOA comes back on the PP 5W-20. Once the wear metals level off and break in is behind me, I should be able to see if there are any wear differences between the 5W-30 and the 10W-30 PU.
So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
I try and keep my cars for 7-10 years, so I guess over the life of it, the UOA's will paint the picture on which oil is doing the best job.
So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
I try and keep my cars for 7-10 years, so I guess over the life of it, the UOA's will paint the picture on which oil is doing the best job.
I would bet my car that 10W-30 does NOT provide better wear protection over 5W-30, or 5W-20, or even thinner than that. Whatever floats you're boat I suppose, but Considering my car is 13 years old with as many miles as it has, on 5W-30.... And police cars/taxis go 300+K miles on 5w-20.... I wouldn't worrya bout it. Our expedition is 7 years old with 62k miles on it. All of those miles were on 5W-20. I bet you we will keep running 5W-20 and in 15 years or so, it wll still be running just fine.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: Insane
....So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
Most all cars/engines are designed to last 150,000 miles, simple marketing demands that. Thats about 5-6 years of average consumer driving (yes, most people rack on more mileage than they realise!)The use of thinner oils is nothing new, aside from the obvious mileage savings from a less viscous oil, simply put, 20W oils are more than adequate for lube requirements. Most don't realise that cars made in the 30's and 40's usually spec-ed a straight 20W oil. Now granted, intervals for change were 1000 miles, but consider the technology of the oils back then, plus the 'dirty' gas used, amount and places people drove those cars (Sunday drive..), and the intervals about match what we have today. those engines ran their lifespan just as well on those 20W's. Now today, with oils technology unheard of back then, and engines burning cleaner than ever before, we put less strain on a better oil. Now clearances in those engines of old were really not much different than today, crack open a repair manual and you will see piston to wall clearances, and rod/main clearances very similar to todays engines, after all, .003" is still .003", whether its 1950 or 2010. Basic differences are uniformity in those clearances. this is where I believe thicker oils were sometimes spec-ed in 50's- through the 90's engines. With todays more accurate uniformity in engine manufacturing, and way better oil manufacturing, 20W's are safe and reliable for todays engines.
My '06 Sonata came with 5w-20 when new. I had a few coupons for free dealer oil changes and they used bulk Shell Formula 10w-30. I went to PP 5w-20 at 20K. ( I change oil at 5K intervals)and at 30K, I went to 5w-30 Pennzoil Conventional. I do this because 2 other vehicles I own spec 5w-30, and it's just easier to stick with same oils for all of them. I would, however, have no second thoughts about running 5w-20 in the Sonata. If you still feel the 20W oils just bother you too much to use them, I would go with 5w-30, no higher.
....So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
Most all cars/engines are designed to last 150,000 miles, simple marketing demands that. Thats about 5-6 years of average consumer driving (yes, most people rack on more mileage than they realise!)The use of thinner oils is nothing new, aside from the obvious mileage savings from a less viscous oil, simply put, 20W oils are more than adequate for lube requirements. Most don't realise that cars made in the 30's and 40's usually spec-ed a straight 20W oil. Now granted, intervals for change were 1000 miles, but consider the technology of the oils back then, plus the 'dirty' gas used, amount and places people drove those cars (Sunday drive..), and the intervals about match what we have today. those engines ran their lifespan just as well on those 20W's. Now today, with oils technology unheard of back then, and engines burning cleaner than ever before, we put less strain on a better oil. Now clearances in those engines of old were really not much different than today, crack open a repair manual and you will see piston to wall clearances, and rod/main clearances very similar to todays engines, after all, .003" is still .003", whether its 1950 or 2010. Basic differences are uniformity in those clearances. this is where I believe thicker oils were sometimes spec-ed in 50's- through the 90's engines. With todays more accurate uniformity in engine manufacturing, and way better oil manufacturing, 20W's are safe and reliable for todays engines.
My '06 Sonata came with 5w-20 when new. I had a few coupons for free dealer oil changes and they used bulk Shell Formula 10w-30. I went to PP 5w-20 at 20K. ( I change oil at 5K intervals)and at 30K, I went to 5w-30 Pennzoil Conventional. I do this because 2 other vehicles I own spec 5w-30, and it's just easier to stick with same oils for all of them. I would, however, have no second thoughts about running 5w-20 in the Sonata. If you still feel the 20W oils just bother you too much to use them, I would go with 5w-30, no higher.
Originally Posted By: Insane
Thanks for the replies guys. What I think I'm going to do is go with 5W-30 PU on the next change, and see how the UOA comes back on the PP 5W-20. Once the wear metals level off and break in is behind me, I should be able to see if there are any wear differences between the 5W-30 and the 10W-30 PU.
So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
I try and keep my cars for 7-10 years, so I guess over the life of it, the UOA's will paint the picture on which oil is doing the best job.
My cousin has a '06 Sonata with the 3.3l version of the Lambda V6. He has 80k on it using 5w20 oils. No issues and he drives that car hard. Stick with the 5w-20, these engines seem to run much happier on thinner oils. Unless you are going to the track and spending an afternoon clipping apexes, then a thicker oil may help out. The Lambda engine has been around for a few years in many HAG vehicles, and is generally considered a durable engine. Some people have reported timing chain noise at start up with thicker oils though.
Thanks for the replies guys. What I think I'm going to do is go with 5W-30 PU on the next change, and see how the UOA comes back on the PP 5W-20. Once the wear metals level off and break in is behind me, I should be able to see if there are any wear differences between the 5W-30 and the 10W-30 PU.
So, it seems the trend is to thinner and thinner oil. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'm curious as to why this is. Besides mileage gains of a thinner oil, I'm trying to figure out why newer vehicles seem to be moving away from the heavier viscosity. I somehow don't think engine longevity is really in mind when it comes to the manufacturers because no one keeps cars a long time any more, and the longer someone keeps an engine running, they are less likely to buy a new car.
I try and keep my cars for 7-10 years, so I guess over the life of it, the UOA's will paint the picture on which oil is doing the best job.
My cousin has a '06 Sonata with the 3.3l version of the Lambda V6. He has 80k on it using 5w20 oils. No issues and he drives that car hard. Stick with the 5w-20, these engines seem to run much happier on thinner oils. Unless you are going to the track and spending an afternoon clipping apexes, then a thicker oil may help out. The Lambda engine has been around for a few years in many HAG vehicles, and is generally considered a durable engine. Some people have reported timing chain noise at start up with thicker oils though.
What happened to your Speed 6? Did it pop? The accounts of these engines blowing on all the forums is at a frightening level for me. lol
Nice car btw. I seen one last night for the first time, he was pulled over being given a ticket in Bixby's Sonic. lol I followed him for awhile, dude drove good after. I was entertaining the idea of rolling up on him in my Speed 3 and getting him to run just so I could see that bad boy in action.
I'd run 5w30 at first and do a UOA after break-in (say 12k?) and see how the oil holds up. If it shears then I'd look into something heavier. Maybe the 10w30. Try Redline. After you get the supercharger, I'd go back to the Rotella T6 5w40 though, with your driving style.
Nice car btw. I seen one last night for the first time, he was pulled over being given a ticket in Bixby's Sonic. lol I followed him for awhile, dude drove good after. I was entertaining the idea of rolling up on him in my Speed 3 and getting him to run just so I could see that bad boy in action.
I'd run 5w30 at first and do a UOA after break-in (say 12k?) and see how the oil holds up. If it shears then I'd look into something heavier. Maybe the 10w30. Try Redline. After you get the supercharger, I'd go back to the Rotella T6 5w40 though, with your driving style.
Last edited:
The Speed6 was doing awesome until someone decided to change lanes into me on the highway at 70 or so. Speed took the hit in stride, but the other driver spun out in front of me and put us both into a concrete barrier.
I had been doing UOA's on my speed since I bought it new 4 years ago. The best I found in the Mazda DI was the 5W-40 Shell Rotella synthetic, and before that I had good results with PP, but it didn't stand up as well to shearing as the Rotella.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/MS6/IMG_1801_1600x1200.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/MS6/D19642.jpg
As for the oil, I'll probably go with the PU 5W-30 until break in is done, then do some alternate UOA's with PU 5W-20 and 10W-30.
Here is the new car...who knew Hyundai would make a sports car...never thought I'd own one. Brembo brakes, Torsen LSD, 315HP V6, RWD....and a Hyundai?!!?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/Genesis Coupe/IMG_1851_1600x1200.jpg
I had been doing UOA's on my speed since I bought it new 4 years ago. The best I found in the Mazda DI was the 5W-40 Shell Rotella synthetic, and before that I had good results with PP, but it didn't stand up as well to shearing as the Rotella.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/MS6/IMG_1801_1600x1200.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/MS6/D19642.jpg
As for the oil, I'll probably go with the PU 5W-30 until break in is done, then do some alternate UOA's with PU 5W-20 and 10W-30.
Here is the new car...who knew Hyundai would make a sports car...never thought I'd own one. Brembo brakes, Torsen LSD, 315HP V6, RWD....and a Hyundai?!!?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/Genesis Coupe/IMG_1851_1600x1200.jpg
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Insane
Here is the new car...who knew Hyundai would make a sports car...never thought I'd own one. Brembo brakes, Torsen LSD, 315HP V6, RWD....and a Hyundai?!!?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/Genesis Coupe/IMG_1851_1600x1200.jpg
That's a beautiful car, Hyundai did a great job on it! The first few times I saw them on the roads I thought they were much more expensive cars, they have a similar look to some of the BMW coupes. It's the first car Hyundai has made yet that has actually made me say "I want that car!"
Here is the new car...who knew Hyundai would make a sports car...never thought I'd own one. Brembo brakes, Torsen LSD, 315HP V6, RWD....and a Hyundai?!!?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Insane3D/Genesis Coupe/IMG_1851_1600x1200.jpg
That's a beautiful car, Hyundai did a great job on it! The first few times I saw them on the roads I thought they were much more expensive cars, they have a similar look to some of the BMW coupes. It's the first car Hyundai has made yet that has actually made me say "I want that car!"
Man that is beautiful!
Thanks guys!
So, I'll change out this 5W-20 PP in there at 3400 miles, 2k OCI, and UOA it. I will UOA every change anyway...it's the perfect proof of oil changes. I'll probably go with 5W-30 PU from that point on until the wear metals come down. After that point I'll mess with some different viscosity's after that.
I still don't really understand why a 10W-30 is so frowned upon here? It's oversimplified to the max, but I would think a heavier, more robust oil would generally protect the engine better than a super thin one. The lone exception might be cold startup wear on colder days. I don't even see how much of a difference there is between 5W-30 and 10W-30. They are the same "weight" oil if I understand correctly, they will just flow different at their cold pour point. When I went between the 5W and 10W PP in the DI Mazda, there was no difference at all in the UOA's other than the 10W holding up a smidge better to shearing. I attributed that to it having less viscosity improvers than the 5W.
Can someone tell me exactly why a 10W-30 would be poorer engine protection than the 5W-20? I'm not really interested in the fact that x cars go 8 bazillion miles without issues on xW-20. You can have an engine that "is fine" after all those miles, but might be more worn than it had to be without any outward signs of such.
I still don't really understand why a 10W-30 is so frowned upon here? It's oversimplified to the max, but I would think a heavier, more robust oil would generally protect the engine better than a super thin one. The lone exception might be cold startup wear on colder days. I don't even see how much of a difference there is between 5W-30 and 10W-30. They are the same "weight" oil if I understand correctly, they will just flow different at their cold pour point. When I went between the 5W and 10W PP in the DI Mazda, there was no difference at all in the UOA's other than the 10W holding up a smidge better to shearing. I attributed that to it having less viscosity improvers than the 5W.
Can someone tell me exactly why a 10W-30 would be poorer engine protection than the 5W-20? I'm not really interested in the fact that x cars go 8 bazillion miles without issues on xW-20. You can have an engine that "is fine" after all those miles, but might be more worn than it had to be without any outward signs of such.
Last edited:
To me, the thing that got me thinking was (I grew up THICK, 20w50 thick) that the xW20 oils are all at least GP III and have great additive packages.
Now, combine that with engines that spin a lot faster than my '69 Z/28, and you see that oil flowing (also through smaller passages) faster is better.
Think of maple syrup trying to make it's way around the little passages of your new hi-po V6. Not as good as the thinner stuff getting where it needs to - with good additives there to help clean, buffer, and keep her cool.
I am a convert. I may never keep a car for 100s of 1000s of miles either, but it's good to know that if things don't get better in the economy for another 5 years, my car will still get me to work (or interviews) without choking.
My brother just got the same car as you - I am recommending he run the 0w20 Toyota oil I just got if I like what I see here.
Now, combine that with engines that spin a lot faster than my '69 Z/28, and you see that oil flowing (also through smaller passages) faster is better.
Think of maple syrup trying to make it's way around the little passages of your new hi-po V6. Not as good as the thinner stuff getting where it needs to - with good additives there to help clean, buffer, and keep her cool.
I am a convert. I may never keep a car for 100s of 1000s of miles either, but it's good to know that if things don't get better in the economy for another 5 years, my car will still get me to work (or interviews) without choking.
My brother just got the same car as you - I am recommending he run the 0w20 Toyota oil I just got if I like what I see here.
I understand that line of reasoning, and it makes sense, but it goes the other way too. In the DI Mazda, there were a lot of smoking issues with the turbo because the 5W-30 was shearing down so much and thinning down to xW-20 levels, it was TOO THIN, and causing the oil to flow back into the turbo improperly, and caused smoking. The Mazda approved temporary fix was to run a 5W-40.
Also, the difference in thickness is not so great between a xW-20 and a xW-30. The owners manual even calls for 15W-40 under hot climates. Clearly, there is a point where oil temperatures come into affect. The oil viscosity is not a static animal, and even comparing a dino vs syn of the same weight will have different flow characteristics.
Just my .02.
Also, the difference in thickness is not so great between a xW-20 and a xW-30. The owners manual even calls for 15W-40 under hot climates. Clearly, there is a point where oil temperatures come into affect. The oil viscosity is not a static animal, and even comparing a dino vs syn of the same weight will have different flow characteristics.
Just my .02.
Last edited:
There will always be exceptions - and often those appear to be turbos.
I know very little about the current crops of xW40s. Used to use that of course - the first step down from the 20w50 for me.
I had a hard time going to the 5w30 on my new Scion, then they changed to 5w20. Was in a tizzy, but after the GC 0w30 became too difficult to find, I bit the bullet and went to RP 5w20.
Never had any issues, so the next move to 0w20 was a no-brainer. We'll see if this Toyota oil lives up to the BITOG hype machine
I know very little about the current crops of xW40s. Used to use that of course - the first step down from the 20w50 for me.
I had a hard time going to the 5w30 on my new Scion, then they changed to 5w20. Was in a tizzy, but after the GC 0w30 became too difficult to find, I bit the bullet and went to RP 5w20.
Never had any issues, so the next move to 0w20 was a no-brainer. We'll see if this Toyota oil lives up to the BITOG hype machine
Yeah, agreed on that. I think with the turbos it boils down to oil temps again. I imagine oil circulating through a screaming hot turbo thins out the oil even more. The GC 0W-30 was one of the best on the DI Mazda's, but it's really more like a 0W-40 in actuality.
- Status