Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Schmoe said:
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200K and beyond...
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Originally Posted By: expat
I no longer see a defining line between an Import and a domestic.
Each vheical is assessed on it's own merits.
Ding, ding, ding...
I no longer see a defining line between an Import and a domestic.
Each vheical is assessed on it's own merits.
Ding, ding, ding...
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Time, IMO.
Age takes its toll, especially when the vehicle is used for short trip duty. If you notice, a lot of people who accumulate 50-60k/yr and dump their cars after 4 years tend to claim that their vehicles are very reliable. Those very same cars, if you look on the forums, can turn out to be so-so after 7 years or 75k.
is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Time, IMO.
Age takes its toll, especially when the vehicle is used for short trip duty. If you notice, a lot of people who accumulate 50-60k/yr and dump their cars after 4 years tend to claim that their vehicles are very reliable. Those very same cars, if you look on the forums, can turn out to be so-so after 7 years or 75k.
That's true. I have never had a car that wasn't perfect at 200k, I drive 40-50k a year. Well a couple didn't make it there, but on the average even with my track days and trailer towing thrown in I have much better reliability than most.
My wife typically drives about 25k a year. She runs them to about 100-120k typically with no problems other than an occasional sensor. The exception was her last Audi (first german car) which at 65k was too expensive to maintain. Her BMW has been reliable so far - but we actually got the 100k BMW warranty. We have never extended a warranty before. i figure this one we will sell at 99,000 miles unless it proves reliable in the long term.
On the average (if you remove the Audi from the equation) we have similar reliability even though I do twice as many miles.
My wife typically drives about 25k a year. She runs them to about 100-120k typically with no problems other than an occasional sensor. The exception was her last Audi (first german car) which at 65k was too expensive to maintain. Her BMW has been reliable so far - but we actually got the 100k BMW warranty. We have never extended a warranty before. i figure this one we will sell at 99,000 miles unless it proves reliable in the long term.
On the average (if you remove the Audi from the equation) we have similar reliability even though I do twice as many miles.
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Time, IMO.
Age takes its toll, especially when the vehicle is used for short trip duty. If you notice, a lot of people who accumulate 50-60k/yr and dump their cars after 4 years tend to claim that their vehicles are very reliable. Those very same cars, if you look on the forums, can turn out to be so-so after 7 years or 75k.
This will be the defining barrier to how long my car lasts. It had 96,000 km on the odometer (about 60k miles) and I've since added almost another 12,000 km (since May). It came with some kinks that are mostly worked out, but it didn't see a lot of driving, and what it did see was mostly city stop and go, and short trips.
Its hard to find if you aren't looking for it, but there is some rust. As I expect to do about 20k miles per year on it, it would be about 17 years old by the time it hit 200k. The transmission is fine, but this is a long period to combat rust and though the engine seems ok too, I don't know if it'll make 17 years or 200k. There's definitely 3 good years left, but over the 3-5 year span some problems may arrise in the form of the more expensive repairs. And from 5-7 years, unless its retired to summer use only before then, corrosion will become a big problem and the likelihood of a major repair exceeding the value of the car becomes a real possibility.
At any rate, I'm expecting at least 3 years of trouble free, low cost ownership. Beyond that I'll have already gotten my money's worth out of the car, and if anything major crops up I'll have to assess the cost of the repair versus the value of the car, and likelihood of another expensive repair following too soon after.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Time, IMO.
Age takes its toll, especially when the vehicle is used for short trip duty. If you notice, a lot of people who accumulate 50-60k/yr and dump their cars after 4 years tend to claim that their vehicles are very reliable. Those very same cars, if you look on the forums, can turn out to be so-so after 7 years or 75k.
This will be the defining barrier to how long my car lasts. It had 96,000 km on the odometer (about 60k miles) and I've since added almost another 12,000 km (since May). It came with some kinks that are mostly worked out, but it didn't see a lot of driving, and what it did see was mostly city stop and go, and short trips.
Its hard to find if you aren't looking for it, but there is some rust. As I expect to do about 20k miles per year on it, it would be about 17 years old by the time it hit 200k. The transmission is fine, but this is a long period to combat rust and though the engine seems ok too, I don't know if it'll make 17 years or 200k. There's definitely 3 good years left, but over the 3-5 year span some problems may arrise in the form of the more expensive repairs. And from 5-7 years, unless its retired to summer use only before then, corrosion will become a big problem and the likelihood of a major repair exceeding the value of the car becomes a real possibility.
At any rate, I'm expecting at least 3 years of trouble free, low cost ownership. Beyond that I'll have already gotten my money's worth out of the car, and if anything major crops up I'll have to assess the cost of the repair versus the value of the car, and likelihood of another expensive repair following too soon after.
-Spyder
Im about to break the 400K mark in two of my vehicles.
I agree 100%. if you have AC why screw around openeing windows.
But the motors last a lot longer if one bothers to take the interior panel off at around year 5 and clean the tracks of the old dried up dirt encrusted grease and relube them.
My power windows work perfectly fine in my 86 Shelby Daytona.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: grampi
Power windows are my pet peeve. I would rather have manual windows in any car, regardless how else it's equipped, because NO manfacturer seems to be able to make a reliable power window assembly.
My family has had power windows since the 60's and never had a issue with them and they keep their cars for up to 20 years...If you play with your windows every time you get into your car expect to fix them and fix them alot no matter what kind car you are driving...The only time we open our windows is for the parking garage...We got Sunpass and E-Z Pass to cut down on opening the windows.
But the motors last a lot longer if one bothers to take the interior panel off at around year 5 and clean the tracks of the old dried up dirt encrusted grease and relube them.
My power windows work perfectly fine in my 86 Shelby Daytona.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: grampi
Power windows are my pet peeve. I would rather have manual windows in any car, regardless how else it's equipped, because NO manfacturer seems to be able to make a reliable power window assembly.
My family has had power windows since the 60's and never had a issue with them and they keep their cars for up to 20 years...If you play with your windows every time you get into your car expect to fix them and fix them alot no matter what kind car you are driving...The only time we open our windows is for the parking garage...We got Sunpass and E-Z Pass to cut down on opening the windows.
That isnt a fair comparision, 7 yr old Accord to 15 year old Cutlass. If you kept the Accord to year 15, I would bet it would have more body rot, and many more problems than the simpilar Cutlass. THe junky near me is full of mid-late 90's Accords and Camrys. Most look like rust issues took em out. Odometers seems to be in 130-200K range.
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
One thing that I've noticed, it's not so much the engine/transmission as it is with everything else. I concur with the brethren that mentioned the "other" problems. My dear old '90 Cutlass with the 3.3 was one of the best cars I ever owned. But, about a year before I sold it, everything seemed to start going at once. I had that car for 15 years and sold it to get the 06 Accord. The head liner started going out, rear wire defrosted started going out, power windows had pretty much stopped working, ingition key went out, radio went out, dash lights started failing and then the kicker....the crank sensor went out and left me stranded on the interstate one day. But mechanically, it was sound. Now, the 02 Accord for comparison, the only problem was with the transmission, which was and is well known to Accord owners of that generation but Honda helped me out at 135K when it first went. I started noticing some tell-tale problems with the second transmission around 201K, so my spidey senses said trade for a new one, hence the 2010 CRV. However, on that Accord, everything still worked except for one dash light, but you could still see it at night. Windows, keys, radio, you name it, it all still worked when I traded it in for 3500. I know time wise, the Accord was younger. But, is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
One thing that I've noticed, it's not so much the engine/transmission as it is with everything else. I concur with the brethren that mentioned the "other" problems. My dear old '90 Cutlass with the 3.3 was one of the best cars I ever owned. But, about a year before I sold it, everything seemed to start going at once. I had that car for 15 years and sold it to get the 06 Accord. The head liner started going out, rear wire defrosted started going out, power windows had pretty much stopped working, ingition key went out, radio went out, dash lights started failing and then the kicker....the crank sensor went out and left me stranded on the interstate one day. But mechanically, it was sound. Now, the 02 Accord for comparison, the only problem was with the transmission, which was and is well known to Accord owners of that generation but Honda helped me out at 135K when it first went. I started noticing some tell-tale problems with the second transmission around 201K, so my spidey senses said trade for a new one, hence the 2010 CRV. However, on that Accord, everything still worked except for one dash light, but you could still see it at night. Windows, keys, radio, you name it, it all still worked when I traded it in for 3500. I know time wise, the Accord was younger. But, is lingevity a function of time or miles????
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My family has had power windows since the 60's and never had a issue with them and they keep their cars for up to 20 years...If you play with your windows every time you get into your car expect to fix them and fix them alot no matter what kind car you are driving...The only time we open our windows is for the parking garage...We got Sunpass and E-Z Pass to cut down on opening the windows.
So....basically what you are saying is that if you don't use it, it won't break.
My EH9 Civic had 225,000 miles when I sold it. All four power windows still worked and the sunroof too. They went down any time the temperature was below 90 degrees and above 60. I didn't even have any of the window track issues that seem to plague other Civics of that generation so, so much for that theory.
Even my '83 98 Regency Coupe's power windows worked. They were agonizingly slow. Everything but the A/C was agonizingly slow on that car. (A/C worked and worked well) They were used frequently but you had to plan ahead so that you could have them down by the time you reached your destination. (
obvious exageration but they were slow)
My family has had power windows since the 60's and never had a issue with them and they keep their cars for up to 20 years...If you play with your windows every time you get into your car expect to fix them and fix them alot no matter what kind car you are driving...The only time we open our windows is for the parking garage...We got Sunpass and E-Z Pass to cut down on opening the windows.
So....basically what you are saying is that if you don't use it, it won't break.
My EH9 Civic had 225,000 miles when I sold it. All four power windows still worked and the sunroof too. They went down any time the temperature was below 90 degrees and above 60. I didn't even have any of the window track issues that seem to plague other Civics of that generation so, so much for that theory.
Even my '83 98 Regency Coupe's power windows worked. They were agonizingly slow. Everything but the A/C was agonizingly slow on that car. (A/C worked and worked well) They were used frequently but you had to plan ahead so that you could have them down by the time you reached your destination. (
Originally Posted By: Paulson
I just had the pleasure of watching both my 01 5.3L Suburban and my 96 4.3L Blazer go past the 200K mark.
Maintenance on both Vehicles has been relatively cheap and both vehicles still have the original engine and transmission. I consider both vehicles to be in great shape mechanically (everything works on both of them) and am planning on taking the suburban on a 600+ mile trip this weekend....
Seeing as to how so many people knock on the reliability of American car companies VS toyota and honda, is it just luck that we've found so many good used vehicles or do people just complain more vocally about the big 3?
Also I'd love to hear about other people who have got to see 200K plus on their vehicles (and if they're still used!)
Lots of folks also complain about the reliability of Volkswagens, yet I know of many TDIs with more than 400k miles, and several in the 500k-600k mile range.
I just had the pleasure of watching both my 01 5.3L Suburban and my 96 4.3L Blazer go past the 200K mark.
Maintenance on both Vehicles has been relatively cheap and both vehicles still have the original engine and transmission. I consider both vehicles to be in great shape mechanically (everything works on both of them) and am planning on taking the suburban on a 600+ mile trip this weekend....
Seeing as to how so many people knock on the reliability of American car companies VS toyota and honda, is it just luck that we've found so many good used vehicles or do people just complain more vocally about the big 3?
Also I'd love to hear about other people who have got to see 200K plus on their vehicles (and if they're still used!)
Lots of folks also complain about the reliability of Volkswagens, yet I know of many TDIs with more than 400k miles, and several in the 500k-600k mile range.
There is a difference between reliability and durability. I usually keep cars beyond 200k, some require no repairs in that time, others are one thing after another. I have only ever had 1 transmission failure (audi - under warranty). My 2 chrysler minivans made 200k with no power train problems, but multiple AC, sensor, motor mounts, power window, power seat, stereo, etc problems. Audi had clutched pulley, alternator, transmission, power window, interior trim falling off, hood release, half shaft failure, pcv hoses disintegrating, multiple oil leaks, AC and finally a cam chain tensioner before 60k - but I could have kept repairing it for 300k.
My Toyota and nissans all combined (7 of them) have had 1 power window, 2 sets of coil packs, one fan clutch, one set of spider gears, one starter and some sensors.
I had a couple Ford Aerostars between '87 and '93 that had multiple transmission failures, AC failures and oil leaks. Neither of them made it to 200k on the original engine, both were taken out on the highway by a burst coolant hose. Overall though they spent most of the time on the road. They were the opposite of the chryslers that had reliable drivetrains but everything else fell off.
We had 2 TDI beetles, one was lemon lawed, the other fairly trouble free.
I think any car can last virtually forever, but at what cost?
My Toyota and nissans all combined (7 of them) have had 1 power window, 2 sets of coil packs, one fan clutch, one set of spider gears, one starter and some sensors.
I had a couple Ford Aerostars between '87 and '93 that had multiple transmission failures, AC failures and oil leaks. Neither of them made it to 200k on the original engine, both were taken out on the highway by a burst coolant hose. Overall though they spent most of the time on the road. They were the opposite of the chryslers that had reliable drivetrains but everything else fell off.
We had 2 TDI beetles, one was lemon lawed, the other fairly trouble free.
I think any car can last virtually forever, but at what cost?
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I have around 198K miles on my Century. I should flip over to 200K next week... Just did a huge tune up, and it still needs more.
Replaced over the last 10K miles.
Water pump
Coolant
Alternator
all 3 coil packs
6 AC delco spark plugs
Crank Pos Sensor
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Air Filter
transmission fluid and filter 3X at 6Qts a round.
Power Steering fluid 2Qts - Drain and fill about 10-15 times.
Belt Tensioner
Shocks
Brakes
Engine/transmission mounts
Also gave it a full pint of Seafoam in the intake. (Did THAT make a huge difference!)
Even though its a older car, its not the typical older car. I put around 1000+ miles a week on it, and would take it anywhere in the USA tomorrow. The Engine and transmission are holding up, and the car still sees 4000 Rpms every now and then. I get around 21-23MPG locally, and a strong 29MPG on the highway. :-O
Next to replace is just a lot of rubber Body mounts, sway bar busings type of items. Tie rods, axles, CV's are all tight and have been replaced in the close past.
Also it does not leak, or burn any noticeable amount. It also helps it was taken care of by an older guy, that was the 3000 mile oil change type, and only dealer maintained.
Im hoping to get better then 250K miles out of it.. The 3.3L is pretty bullet proof, and is an amazing engine for this car. the power from it is every responsive, and surprisingly quick for a 20 year old car. Also just to add, all 4 power widows, power locks, seats, mirrors, interior lights, everything still works. The only thing is i installed all new speakers and aftermakrnet CD, and now the power antenna does not go down. I dont know if it ever went down before i bought as it had no radio at the time. Dash has no cracks, interior Wood is still that nice wood color, and not the faded purple, and just the typical headliner failing. It will not win any beauty awards, but i know it will anyways start, with just slight cold valve noise.
Replaced over the last 10K miles.
Water pump
Coolant
Alternator
all 3 coil packs
6 AC delco spark plugs
Crank Pos Sensor
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Air Filter
transmission fluid and filter 3X at 6Qts a round.
Power Steering fluid 2Qts - Drain and fill about 10-15 times.
Belt Tensioner
Shocks
Brakes
Engine/transmission mounts
Also gave it a full pint of Seafoam in the intake. (Did THAT make a huge difference!)
Even though its a older car, its not the typical older car. I put around 1000+ miles a week on it, and would take it anywhere in the USA tomorrow. The Engine and transmission are holding up, and the car still sees 4000 Rpms every now and then. I get around 21-23MPG locally, and a strong 29MPG on the highway. :-O
Next to replace is just a lot of rubber Body mounts, sway bar busings type of items. Tie rods, axles, CV's are all tight and have been replaced in the close past.
Also it does not leak, or burn any noticeable amount. It also helps it was taken care of by an older guy, that was the 3000 mile oil change type, and only dealer maintained.
Im hoping to get better then 250K miles out of it.. The 3.3L is pretty bullet proof, and is an amazing engine for this car. the power from it is every responsive, and surprisingly quick for a 20 year old car. Also just to add, all 4 power widows, power locks, seats, mirrors, interior lights, everything still works. The only thing is i installed all new speakers and aftermakrnet CD, and now the power antenna does not go down. I dont know if it ever went down before i bought as it had no radio at the time. Dash has no cracks, interior Wood is still that nice wood color, and not the faded purple, and just the typical headliner failing. It will not win any beauty awards, but i know it will anyways start, with just slight cold valve noise.
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Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I had people say junk the car because the compressor went out.
Misery (car payments) loves company!
I had people say junk the car because the compressor went out.
Misery (car payments) loves company!
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