2006 F150, timing issue on bank 2 after timing job.

[wtd]

A friend of mine did a timing job on another friends of ours 2006 F150 with the 5.4L. He replaced the chains, guides, tensioners, phasers, and VVT solenoids. He said the truck ran fine for the first 30 minutes and then something went wrong. Truck started idling very rough and would eventually die. It's throwing these codes. P0018, P0022, P2195, P2198, and P0113.

He asked me to bring my scanner over to look at some live data that his scanner doesn't have. The timing on Bank 1 at idle was fine and it stayed around 0 degrees but on bank 2 it was hovering around -50 degrees and is probably why he had the 0018 and 0022 codes.

I also looked at the O2 data and at idle in closed loop, both pre-cat sensors were staying at 0 volts. If you revved the engine up, one of the sensors would respond and oscillate like it is supposed to. The other sensor initially would do the same and then quit and stayed at 0 no matter what. One of the after-cat sensors was also dead and stayed at 0 volts. The other one stayed around 600 mv.

He is very certain he initially timed everything correctly and checked it multiple times. My question is what would cause just one side to go out of time? One of the components on bank 2 went bad? He did say that the engine was very dirty inside and had a lot of sludge. Truck has around 170,000 miles on it and had a broken guide and is why he did this job. Unfortunately, he used all Cloyes aftermarket parts for the timing components and some parts store VVT solenoids that I don't know the brand of.

I told him it could be a bad phaser, VVT solenoid, or possible a bad cam sensor but he switched those side to side with no changes.

Does anyone have any ideas on what else could cause this issue? Thanks.

 

[clinebarger]

There are 2 chains so it's absolutely possible to have 1 bank out of time.

Probably pull the left valve cover & see if the cam will rotate independently of the phaser (The phaser should be locked)

 

[wtd]

There are 2 chains so it's absolutely possible to have 1 bank out of time.

Probably pull the left valve cover & see if the cam will rotate independently of the phaser (The phaser should be locked)

Thanks for the info. We did pull the left valve cover and the phaser was locked but we did not try rotating the cam independently from the phaser. If one side wasn't timed correctly, would it still run fine for 30 minutes before a problem occurred?

 

[D60]

He switched phasers side to side?

No bent tangs on the phaser of offending bank?

Absolutely positively positive no harnii were pinched during reassembly? That could explain a 30 minute delay and your O2 readings

 

[clinebarger]

I would've torn it back down already.

 

[wtd]

He switched phasers side to side?

No bent tangs on the phaser of offending bank?

Absolutely positively positive no harnii were pinched during reassembly? That could explain a 30 minute delay and your O2 readings

No, he switched the cam sensors side to side to see if it was a cam sensor issue. I guess they use the same sensor for both sides.

There were no bent tangs on the bank 2 phaser.

All the harnesses that I looked at looked good but I guess anything is possible. This guy has been working on vehicles for years and I've had him do an engine replacement, clutch replacement, and a couple of head gaskets over the years that I didn't want to do and he has always done a good job but that doesn't mean a mistake couldn't have been made.

I don't think our friend has been very meticulous in the maintenance or repair category as there were several other issues with this truck unrelated to the timing issue. The O2 sensors are probably original.

 

[wtd]

I would've torn it back down already.

He really doesn't want to do that but he may have to. He is retired and just does car repairs on the side which he has been doing for over 20 years. He already has a lot of hours into this job with tearing it apart, putting in the new parts and putting it all back together. He is pretty frustrated to say the least. Especially since it ran great initially.
The problem is that he used all aftermarket parts in this repair and most mechanics that work on these engines do not recommend using anything but Motorcraft replacement parts. The owner unfortunately did not want to spend the money on factory parts.

 

[D60]

You might start here around the end of Post #55

AFTER A TIMING CHAIN AND CAM PHASER JOB, NOW THIS?! A P0340 DTC - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

2004 - 2008 F150 - AFTER A TIMING CHAIN AND CAM PHASER JOB, NOW THIS?! A P0340 DTC - I just recently installed phasers, timing chains, tensioners, etc. When I started the engine, it ran smooth on idle, but when it gets to operating temperature, it starts making diesel like kind of noise, loses...

www.ford-trucks.com

 

[Trav]

He really doesn't want to do that but he may have to. He is retired and just does car repairs on the side which he has been doing for over 20 years. He already has a lot of hours into this job with tearing it apart, putting in the new parts and putting it all back together. He is pretty frustrated to say the least. Especially since it ran great initially.
The problem is that he used all aftermarket parts in this repair and most mechanics that work on these engines do not recommend using anything but Motorcraft replacement parts. The owner unfortunately did not want to spend the money on factory parts.

Using aftermarket parts on engine internals is the easiest way to get yourself in a huge pickle unless you know and have experience with the part you are using. Some aftermarket parts are greatly improved over a troublesome OE part these sometimes cost at least the same and sometimes a lot more than OE.

 

[Cujet]

Unfortunately, low oil pressure is a problem in these engines. Whether that's the cause or not, who knows? But one thing is clear, the oil pump tends to leak, the tensioners tend to leak (I know they were replaced) but the damage may have been done and the cam caps may be worn. Leading to insufficient pressure at the phaser.

Is it better when cold?

Is he using low viscosity oil?

The early 5.4's also (supposedly) had smaller oil passages, so any oil pressure "escapes" are problematic.

 

[thastinger]

It being gunked up inside isn't good as the oil passages to the tensioners are pretty small.

 

[D60]

If the phasers are aftermarket that would concern me. But as stated I guess you could see if it's locked right now

 

[The_Eric]

Potentially an improperly installed and/or stuck phaser.

What brand parts were installed? PLEASE don't say Dorman!

 

[wtd]

Using aftermarket parts on engine internals is the easiest way to get yourself in a huge pickle unless you know and have experience with the part you are using. Some aftermarket parts are greatly improved over a troublesome OE part these sometimes cost at least the same and sometimes a lot more than OE.

He used all Cloyes timing parts which I have not read much good about that brand.

 

[wtd]

Potentially an improperly installed and/or stuck phaser.

What brand parts were installed? PLEASE don't say Dorman!

He used Cloyes timing components.

 

[wtd]

If the phasers are aftermarket that would concern me. But as stated I guess you could see if it's locked right now

When we pulled the bank 2 valve cover, the phaser was locked. We turned the engine over to TDC on the compression stroke and the bank 2 phaser was in the correct orientation.

 

[wtd]

He called me this morning and told me that he replaced three out of the four O2 sensors and that so far, the truck runs great, better than it did after he first did the timing and started it for the first time.
I guess he will run it for a while and see if it still runs good after the 30-minute mark. I guess time will tell if it is fixed.

 

[97prizm]

No, he switched the cam sensors side to side to see if it was a cam sensor issue. I guess they use the same sensor for both sides.

There were no bent tangs on the bank 2 phaser.

All the harnesses that I looked at looked good but I guess anything is possible. This guy has been working on vehicles for years and I've had him do an engine replacement, clutch replacement, and a couple of head gaskets over the years that I didn't want to do and he has always done a good job but that doesn't mean a mistake couldn't have been made.

I don't think our friend has been very meticulous in the maintenance or repair category as there were several other issues with this truck unrelated to the timing issue. The O2 sensors are probably original.

Is it possible that the chain itself is bad or the chain tensioner?

 

[wtd]

Is it possible that the chain itself is bad or the chain tensioner?

I guess anything is possible with new parts. It appears that replacing the O2 sensors has fixed the issue. I contacted him a little while ago to ask if the truck was still running well and he said it was.