2005 Subaru Legacy GT Mobil 1 EP 10W-30 (5200 miles)

[melayout]

Here is some history:

3700/1 Month - 1st Oil Change - OEM Dino 5W-30
7300/2 Months - 2nd Oil Change - Mobil 1 10W-30
12,900/3.5 Months - 3rd Oil Change - Mobil 1 EP 10W-30
18,100/1 Month - 4th Oil Change - Mobil 1 EP 10W-30

I drive the car hard and it is too addictive as indicated by the 5000 miles in 1 month.

The Subaru OEM Oil Filter is the only one used and the 5200 mile OCI has seen the following:
- Daily 20 mile roundtrip commute
- Weekend 50 miles cruises
- 1000 mile road trip from North Carolina to Virginia and New Jersey and back.
- 1-2 Minutes on the OTHER Limiter, OOPS

- A gazillion WOTs per mile

Went with 10W-30 per dealer recommendation. Manual recommends 5W-30 as default oil and 10W-30/40 for higher temperatures. It also approves the use of synthetics.

So how does the UOA stack up?

Mojo

[ May 18, 2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[buster]

Few questions, did the car consume oil before switching to M1 EP? Did the oil get darker then before?

The Boron must be getting used up to some degree. All 8 or so VOA's of M1 EP have about 275ppm of Boron.

 

[Al]

This is a nice report. This might be the first UOA for the EP..not sure. But did you consume a quart of oil? Thast makes the numbers not quite as good as they look. But good report anyway. These Subarus give good Used Oil Analysis.

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Few questions, did the car consume oil before switching to M1 EP? Did the oil get darker then before?

The Boron must be getting used up to some degree. All 8 or so VOA's of M1 EP have about 275ppm of Boron.

---

Yes about 1/2 qt with M1, and it was 1 qt because I was very hard as I've indicated above.

And yes the oil was always dark.

Mojo

[ May 17, 2005, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: melayout ]

 

[buster]

Sorry I just read your driving conditions. Al is right then, it's a very good report considering how hard you drive. I wouldn't change a thing. I would continue to use the M1 EP. I believe it's important to stay with one brand for awhile to keep the chemistry the same.

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:

This is a nice report. This might be the first UOA for the EP..not sure. But did you consume a quart of oil? Thast makes the numbers not quite as good as they look. But good report anyway. These Subarus give good Used Oil Analysis.

---

I drive hard, but this OCI I'm going to be easy on the car and see if the oil consumption decreases and if so then I know that it's because of my driving style and not because of bad/worn rings/sleeves.

One thing that pushes me toward the driving style theory is that my butt-dyno hasn't experienced any degredation in peformance and the engine hasn't thrown any CELs because of misfires, which I think can be induced if the oil was accumulating in the combustion chamber and coating the spark plugs, but I maybe wrong.

Mojo

 

[melayout]

How about my OCI, should I try 7500 miles ?

It is within the manual's limit.

Mojo

 

[buster]

Your rings are definitely not worn out. Some cars have better piston/ring seal then others. Did you break it in hard or drive it gentle? Also, how was the consumption with the regular Mobil 1? If it doesn't improve,you could switch to another oil and see if that helps.

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Your rings are definitely not worn out. Some cars have better piston/ring seal then others. Did you break it in hard or drive it gentle? Also, how was the consumption with the regular Mobil 1? If it doesn't improve,you could switch to another oil and see if that helps.

---

I got it from the dealer with 120 miles on it, so considering the dealer let me rip it during the test drive, I would say it was driven like it was stolen the first 120 miles. Now from 120 to 1000, I followed the breakin instructions, with a few incursions above 4000 RPM.

About 1/2 quart on M1 with the 5500 mile OCI, but I was gentle on the car compared to the |-|3LL it went through in the last OCI.

Mojo

 

[bigpaulo]

With the quick miles you put on it, and considering you've told yourself your going to take it easy this OCI (pffftt.. yeah, right!), I'd say go to 7500 miles, dump the oil, and do another UOA. If it looks good with the OEM filter and M1 EP 10W-30, then you'll know 7500 mile OCIs with that driving and oil setup is good.

The oil consumption concerns me... it's one of the things people say happen if you switch to synthetic too quickly/don't break in engine properly. As to how to reverse the situation, I have no idea.

Maybe that consumption will come down with just 1 or 2 WOTs per day

 

[TooSlick]

Boron IS depleted through use...in fact comparing the baseline boron levels to the levels in used oil can give the experienced analyst a good idea of how much life is left in the oil....It looks like you could step out to a 7000 mile service interval based on these results, but that would be about it.

This analysis looks fine, as do ALL subaru engines. I've been looking at the Outback XT (the poor mans Audi "Allroad"), with this same engine and manual transmission and it's nice to see these results. I think you'll find the oil consumption goes down over time. If this is not the case, I'd consider going to an xw-30, ACEA "A3/B4" rated synthetic.

Just a caveat: The 15,000 mile change interval on the Mobil 1, EP is for NON-TURBOCHARGED engines used in normal service. Anyone who thinks you can run this stuff for 15,000 miles/1 year in an application like this 2.5L engine, that puts out 250 Hp/250 ft-lbs is out to lunch....

Tooslick

 

[haley10]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Boron IS depleted through use...in fact comparing the baseline boron levels to the levels in used oil can give the experienced analyst a good idea of how much life is left in the oil....It looks like you could step out to a 7000 mile service interval based on these results, but that would be about it.

This analysis looks fine, as do ALL subaru engines. I've been looking at the Outback XT (the poor mans Audi "Allroad"), with this same engine and manual transmission and it's nice to see these results. I think you'll find the oil consumption goes down over time. If this is not the case, I'd consider going to an xw-30, ACEA "A3/B4" rated synthetic.

Just a caveat: The 15,000 mile change interval on the Mobil 1, EP is for NON-TURBOCHARGED engines used in normal service. Anyone who thinks you can run this stuff for 15,000 miles/1 year in an application like this 2.5L engine, that puts out 250 Hp/250 ft-lbs is out to lunch....

Tooslick

---

Maybe it's printed on the container, but the M1 web-site doesn't seem to reference or exclude turbo's from the warranty. I know Amsoil does, because I has seen it printed on the bottle labels.

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by haley10:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Boron IS depleted through use...in fact comparing the baseline boron levels to the levels in used oil can give the experienced analyst a good idea of how much life is left in the oil....It looks like you could step out to a 7000 mile service interval based on these results, but that would be about it.

This analysis looks fine, as do ALL subaru engines. I've been looking at the Outback XT (the poor mans Audi "Allroad"), with this same engine and manual transmission and it's nice to see these results. I think you'll find the oil consumption goes down over time. If this is not the case, I'd consider going to an xw-30, ACEA "A3/B4" rated synthetic.

Just a caveat: The 15,000 mile change interval on the Mobil 1, EP is for NON-TURBOCHARGED engines used in normal service. Anyone who thinks you can run this stuff for 15,000 miles/1 year in an application like this 2.5L engine, that puts out 250 Hp/250 ft-lbs is out to lunch....

Tooslick

---

Maybe it's printed on the container, but the M1 web-site doesn't seem to reference or exclude turbo's from the warranty. I know Amsoil does, because I has seen it printed on the bottle labels.

---

I've checked the Mobil 1 website with respect to my specific car brand and model, but it says don't have enough information. So I looked up the 2004 Subaru WRX STI, which has the same block that I have and it recommends Mobil 1 10W-30 but NOT Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30.

Also, the my car's manual wants a GF-3 or API with Energy Conserving, which Mobil 1 EP doesn't have.

Here are the certs for Mobil 1:

quote:

---

ILSAC GF-4 (API Certified - Starburst)

API SM/SL

GM 6094M/GM4718M

Requirements for Diesel Powered Vehicles where an API CF or API CD is Recommended

ACEA A1/A5, B1/B5

Mobil 1 10W-30 is recommended for all types of modern vehicles, including high-performance turbo-charged , supercharged gasoline and multi-valve fuel injected engines found in passenger cars, SUVs, light vans and trucks.

---

and here is Mobil 1 EP :

quote:

---

ACEA A1/A5, B1/B5

API SL

It also meets the requirements for diesel powered vehicles where an API CF or CD oil is recommended.

All Mobil 1 Extended Performance viscosity grades have been tested to be fully compatible with engine seals and conventional oils. They do not require a special oil filter.

---

So maybe I should try just Mobil 1, not EP, in the next OCI, do a UOA and btw same some $$$$?

Checked my car's manual again, and it wants ILSAC GF-3, or API with SL/SJ and Energy Conserving and the only Mobil 1 synthetic oils that meet these specs are Mobil 1 and not EP.

So, I think I will go with just Mobil 1 next time with 7000 mile OCI to stay within the OEM and Mobil 1 warranty. What do you think ?

Mojo

[ May 18, 2005, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: melayout ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

They said regular M1 because a 2004 car would still be under warranty.

 

[Tanj]

The oil consumption you are seeing is "normal". Or at least that's what Subaru is saying. (Apparently 1qt every 1k miles is normal by Subaru standards.) :rollyeyes: There are enough threads over at Nasioc that talk about "heavy" oil consumption on the 2.5L turbo engines that it isn't just a few bad apples however it also isn't endemic to the entire line. (For example my 2.5L doesn't seem to be affected.) No rhyme or reason has been found as to why some engines have this problem and others don't. While these engines do experience a lot more blow-by then the 2.0l those with catch cans and this issue aren't seeing super large amounts of oil collected in their catch cans so that doesn't 100% explain the issue. Common "fixes" for this are typically switching to heavier weight oil and switching to dino oil. The other "solution" has often been to drive the car more. There appears to be more and more anecdotal evidence that the oil consumption issue goes away for many users between 30k and 50k miles. Or in other words around the time the Subaru engines finally seem to finish break-in.

The other way to fix the issue also seems to be spinning a bearing due to low oil and getting a new motor.

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tanj:
The oil consumption you are seeing is "normal". Or at least that's what Subaru is saying. (Apparently 1qt every 1k miles is normal by Subaru standards.) :rollyeyes: There are enough threads over at Nasioc that talk about "heavy" oil consumption on the 2.5L turbo engines that it isn't just a few bad apples however it also isn't endemic to the entire line. (For example my 2.5L doesn't seem to be affected.) No rhyme or reason has been found as to why some engines have this problem and others don't. While these engines do experience a lot more blow-by then the 2.0l those with catch cans and this issue aren't seeing super large amounts of oil collected in their catch cans so that doesn't 100% explain the issue. Common "fixes" for this are typically switching to heavier weight oil and switching to dino oil. The other "solution" has often been to drive the car more. There appears to be more and more anecdotal evidence that the oil consumption issue goes away for many users between 30k and 50k miles. Or in other words around the time the Subaru engines finally seem to finish break-in.

The other way to fix the issue also seems to be spinning a bearing due to low oil and getting a new motor.

---

Also I think Boxer engines in general are more likely to consume more oil by design compared to V or inline engines because the cylinders are in a horizontal layout and therefore the oil lays on the lower side of the cylinder wall instead of dropping back down to the oil pan.

I also hear that Porsches consume oil, so maybe it's the boxer engine afterall.

Again, oil consumption depends on one's driving style especially high-rev driving, and with the way I drive and rev, I'm not worried.

Mojo

 

[bluesubie]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tanj:
There are enough threads over at Nasioc that talk about "heavy" oil consumption on the 2.5L turbo engines that it isn't just a few bad apples however it also isn't endemic to the entire line.

---

IMHO, it's because a lot of those folks are using 5W30 regardless of where they live and how they drive because it's on the oil cap.

Most people miss the part in the owner's manual that says 10W30 and 10W40 should be used in higher temps. I've seen posts where people say not to use 10W30 because it's too thick!

-Dennis

 

[melayout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluesubie:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tanj:
There are enough threads over at Nasioc that talk about "heavy" oil consumption on the 2.5L turbo engines that it isn't just a few bad apples however it also isn't endemic to the entire line.

---

IMHO, it's because a lot of those folks are using 5W30 regardless of where they live and how they drive because it's on the oil cap.

Most people miss the part in the owner's manual that says 10W30 and 10W40 should be used in higher temps. I've seen posts where people say not to use 10W30 because it's too thick!

-Dennis

---

Even the manual says you can use 20W-50, under severe conditions off course, e.g. towing.

Mojo

[ May 19, 2005, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: melayout ]

 

[heffergm]

Don't worry about the consumption. A quart in 5000 miles is hardly worrisome. I ate about that in my WRX while running 5w30. It's dropped to half that with 10w30.

But then, I run the **** out of mine as well

 

[TooSlick]

haley10,

Are you going to believe the ad slogan on some bottle of oil, or your old buddy Tooslick? It may be possible to run 15k with some turbos, such as the SAAB, but not with this motor,given the operating parameters:

OCI = (C*)(sump-qts)(mpg)(cubic inches/Hp)

OCI = (120)(4.8)(25)(150/250)

Approx OCI with a top tier synthetic = 8640 miles....


TS