2003 Volvo V40 vs 2003 Subaru Legacy

[HTSS_TR]

Looking for a wagon, so far I found these 2 wagons in my area of So Cal:

2003 Volvo V40 170 horsepower turbo charged 1.9L with 125k miles, asking price is $5,200 from a private seller. The car has two main options: leather and moon roof.

2003 Subaru Legacy 165 horsepower 2.5-liter flat-4 with 115k miles, asking price is $6,700 from a used car dealer. The car has two main options: alloy wheels and power dual sunroof.

What are the pro and con of either one, what should I looking for from each car when I do a test drive ?

If you have good/bad experiences with either or both cars, please share.

If you have good experiences with other small wagon from other manufacture(s) please post your experience too.

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

PS I prefer to buy from a private seller if everything equals, but it's rarely the case. I really don't like to deal with a used car sale-person, but if the Subaru is good then I will put up with that. I never had a turbo charged engine before, so I have no knowledge of what are the things I should look for when test drive the Volvo. One thing I know is OCI should not be too long(less than 10k) and synthetic is preferred.

Either car will be paid with cash.

 

[Azeem]

I'd go with the Subaru myself. Cost of ownership will be significantly more economical, Volvo has timing belt too.

 

[fdcg27]

Both of these engines use timing belts, with the Subaru's probably costing more to replace.
Unless the timing belt service has already been done on the Subaru, it's on borrowed time and must be done at once.
This is true for the Volvo as well.
The Subaru might also be in need of head gasket replacement, unless this has already been done.
We like our Subarus, and they really shine in bad winter weather.
I don't imagine that you see a whole lot of snow and ice in Irvine, though.

 

[Kestas]

I'm not familiar with the Subaru, but I have 130K on my 02 Volvo S40 1.9T. This car has been easy to own with very few problems and still running strong.

What I don't like is that Volvo specified 7.5K OCI with regular oil on a turbo engine. IMO that's too tough on the oil. So look out for sludge in the engine, and hopefully the previous owner kept records of stepping up the manufacturer's oil maintenance recommendations.

 

[Rand]

If the subaru has had the headgaskets and timing belt done.. Id go for that.. if not..avoid. Thats a 1500+$ job.

Thats the era of subaru that all the 2.5's had issues with headgaskets. The NA 2.5 is esp known to need headgaskets. The timing belt is a 105000 mile interval and if it wasnt done thats also expensive 2x $$$ at least vs most other cars

They had a funky coated headgasket that would eventually dissolve and leak. There were many theories but they pretty much all went eventually.

The later 2.5 non-turbo 2007+? were better but not bulletproof
either.

The FB 2.5 that started replacing that engine in 2011 starting with the forester is too new to really know.

I really like subarus but there are alot of Gigantic moneypits out there waiting to happen.

Horror stories of people buying used ones and having to drop 1000-3000$ into them almost immediately.

So while I really like them. Its something you have to be very careful with. The turbo ones actually had less issues with headgaskets. They had issues with people who neglected them and blowing up turbos etc(mainly due to neglect or bad tuning imo)

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Both of these engines use timing belts, with the Subaru's probably costing more to replace.


Replacement on my 2005 Legacy GT was a mere $450. 3hrs labor + tensioner and belt. Its much easier on Subaru due motor configuration.

Personally I would look at 2005-2009 (4th gen)Legacy as it is a significant leap forward in car especially interior.

 

[fdcg27]

Okay, but that's still $450.00 the OP would have to spend.
I doubt that the service would be any more expensive on the Volvo, and the Volvo is unlikely to need HG replacement, and certainly not two of them.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, but that's still $450.00 the OP would have to spend.
I doubt that the service would be any more expensive on the Volvo, and the Volvo is unlikely to need HG replacement, and certainly not two of them.


My family has 10 Subaru's in the "hit" years for a head gasket. Only one failed at 240,000 miles. I think the issue exists but at the same time overblown. My local mechanic does the entire head gasket job for $1100 typically on a Subaru.

I know nothing of the v40 except its shares with Mitsubishi which IMHO is never a good mix historically.

Neither wagon would appeal to me personally.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, but that's still $450.00 the OP would have to spend.
I doubt that the service would be any more expensive on the Volvo, and the Volvo is unlikely to need HG replacement, and certainly not two of them.


My family has 10 Subaru's in the "hit" years for a head gasket. Only one failed at 240,000 miles. I think the issue exists but at the same time overblown. My local mechanic does the entire head gasket job for $1100 typically on a Subaru.

I know nothing of the v40 except its shares with Mitsubishi which IMHO is never a good mix historically.

Neither wagon would appeal to me personally.

Seems to be a trend on BITOG, only over blown if you own it. If you have not had one then it is the worst car ever. Ah I love the internet.

Either car will be fine. Just be aware it is a 10 year old car and it may need stuff your YOUR comfort level!

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Seems to be a trend on BITOG, only over blown if you own it. If you have not had one then it is the worst car ever. Ah I love the internet.



I think all problems are overblown. Thankfully the vast majority irrelevant to make/model live their lives with few problems.

My experience is all my brands VW, Honda, Subaru, Jeep, GM, Toyota, Ford have few issues.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Rand
If the subaru has had the headgaskets and timing belt done.. Id go for that.. if not..avoid. Thats a 1500+$ job.

Thats the era of subaru that all the 2.5's had issues with headgaskets. The NA 2.5 is esp known to need headgaskets. The timing belt is a 105000 mile interval and if it wasnt done thats also expensive 2x $$$ at least vs most other cars

They had a funky coated headgasket that would eventually dissolve and leak. There were many theories but they pretty much all went eventually.

The later 2.5 non-turbo 2007+? were better but not bulletproof
either.

The FB 2.5 that started replacing that engine in 2011 starting with the forester is too new to really know.

I really like subarus but there are alot of Gigantic moneypits out there waiting to happen.

Horror stories of people buying used ones and having to drop 1000-3000$ into them almost immediately.

So while I really like them. Its something you have to be very careful with. The turbo ones actually had less issues with headgaskets. They had issues with people who neglected them and blowing up turbos etc(mainly due to neglect or bad tuning imo)
INteresting how the Subie's hit the market around timing belt time.

 

[fdcg27]

That's good news.
I may go back and look again at that DOHC Outback I say with reasonable miles for resonable dollars.
It would be intersting to know what proportion of the 2.5 Subies have actually experienced HG problems.
From what I've seen, it looks pretty common, but that may just be a matter of people trying to unload their own cars when they develop problems.

 

[glock19]

It's funny how many people think Subie's are junk on BITOG.

When I had my 4Runner every one told me they are the most reliable SUV out there but head gaskets, cracked manifolds, frozen wheel bearings were all "pervasive issues" according to the internet.

Just take it with a grain of salt.

 

[NYSteve]

I owned a 2000 Volvo S40 and here was my experience.

As mentioned before, these are kinda quirky cars in that they were part Volvo and part Mitsu. As a few Volvo mechanics said, these are the most reliable Volvos out there. It doesn't mean they are Toyotas, but they aren't terrible.

Most of the main issues center around the following areas:
Suspension: 03s had the better suspension than my 01 but you will still probably have to do strut mounts, strut bearings, shocks etc at some point. These components are pricey and can run $500-$1000 depending on what shocks you choose. Only go with OEM. The aftermarket stuff is junk and doesn't last past 20,000 miles at most.

Axles/CV joints will go at some point. You will know this cause you will have terrible vibration when you accelerate or when you are on the highway. Remans are cheap enough to go with (especially with lifetime war.)

Timing Belt: Need to do it at 7 years or somewhere between 80-105k. Look this up to double check my numbers. This runs about $1000 from an indie including waterpump, thermostat, etc.

Electrical: One of the main quirks on this car is that you can run into sporadic electrical items. The main reason I was told is that solid state relays were used on some of the main electrionic boards and then soldered on. So where that solid state fails, your kinda SOL. This manifested itself with my car when the passenger side headlight circuit relay went out. My solution was to build a headlight hardness that tapped power from the driver side circuit. THe other solution was to buy a new Central Electronic Module for $700 that may or may not require dealer activation.

Some other random areas:
Fuel Pressure Regulators go out about every 80k miles or so. You will know this from a long crank to get it started.

Exhaust flex pipes tend to break as well. Nothing a shop can't fix

Turbo oil pipe gasket can start to leak. While it's only a $3 gasket, it can be very hard to DIY it. Shop time I think is 1-2hours

My last straw with the car was when the Park-Neutral Circuit intermittently started failing and would result in a no start. This no start could last 1hr - 5 hrs.

If I had to do it all again, I would have actually gone with a LegacyGT or a 4Runner. The Legacy gets a nod due to the vast aftermarket support and amazing forum support. Take a look at Suburu's NASIOC Forums ( http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/ ) vs. Volvo's 30Forty50 ( http://www.30forty50.com/forum/ )

Let me know if you have any other questions on the Volvo.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I'm now looking for 2005-2007 Volvo V50 with 2.4L engine.

Test drove one yesterday, the car is in good condition and the price is fair.

The only problem is out of state bank has the title and seller wants I pay him first, he then pays the bank and will mail the title when he gets it. It sounds so fishy so I decided not to process further.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
INteresting how the Subie's hit the market around timing belt time.


My Subie mechanic just did sis-in laws timing belt on a 2003 Legacy 2.5L. He charged $310 for timing belt only everything else looked fine for 210,000 miles.

Mechanics have convinced certain folks to replace half the front of motor and spend $1200+ on the same service. They tried with her.

 

[meep]

The V40 is a part-mitsubishi, part volvo, with a common chassis with ford/mazda of that year range. it does not behave like the larger V60, which is more "volvo," but also struggled to compete in it's price and size point. I had a v60 for a short period of time and found so many oddities that it scared me and I got out of it. I *love* the styling, the seating, the dash. Working on it felt very different than other vehicles--- there were a lot of electronics issues and I couldn't track them down without shop computers, very discouraging.

Subaru is a lot more conservative, uses traditional parts. Subarus also in my experience have more metal in them. Of the 4 in our family, one had an engine failure. That engine failure occured immediately after the dealer added 4.5qts of oil while neglecting to drain the old.

Several V60's that I test drove also had pronounced flares in the 1-2 upshift. That didn't make me feel comfortable either--- as they all had the same weakness.

Subarus DO have HG problems, enough to be considered a trend. BUT I do think it gets overblown. I beat the fool out of the 2 I owned and they were 2 of the most reliable cars I've had.