2003 Ferrari 575 Maranello, 6,300 mi total, 4,100 on oil

[AEHaas]

The Ferrari was delivered with Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30. At 775 miles on 23 May 2003 the oil was changed to 0W-30 Mobil 1. At 2,250 miles on 14 November 2003 the oil was changed to 0W-20 Mobil 1. With over 6,300 miles on the car, and 4,000 miles on this fill of 0W-20 I sent in a sample for analysis. No additional oil was added to the car. This sample was taken on Mar 21, ‘05.

I then changed the oil but not the filters (2). All oil lines were taken down to be sure I had a good clean change. I did not even loosen the filters so as not to disturb anything. 14 Quarts of oil went in and it is slightly overfilled. I drove for 10 miles then resampled the oil. By the way a recent change of oil by my neighbor in his Maranello was done by Ferrari of Central Florida in Orlando. They charged him for only 10 liters of oil so clearly they do not do as thorough a job.

I plan on driving a thousand miles, taking a sample, changing only the filters, then resample after a short drive. I will then sample every 1,000 miles thereafter. I hope to do this whole dance without adding any oil, should be fun.

The question I am trying to answer is this: Does the oil filter do a better job after it is used for a while? Some say that oil works better after it has been in the engine for a while. Is it a result of the filter? We will know better after the next sampling in a thousand miles or so.

aehaas

Images hosted by Mark at Butler

A virgin 0W-20 Mobil 1 Butler analysis showed a particle count of:
>5u=5,000
>10u=900
>15u=250
>20u=90
>25u=35
>50u=4
>75u=1
>100u=0

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Hi AE

I'll keep taking the pictures but you might have to remind me to in case I forget.

It will be interesting to see what happens as time progresses. We generally expect oil filters to do a poorer job with time. The smaller openings become plugged and the pressure differential increases pushing more particles through the larger openings. We'll see if this holds true for low pressure lube systems.

Mark

 

[Al]

Looks like decent numbers. I must say I respect your courage for going with a 20 wt. oil in that rig

. Anyway the new oil seems to have a larger number of larger particles. It looks like the filters in your vehicle are doing a great job.

I tend to agree with Stinky. Filters in general filter better clean. Now probably fiberglass media filters (depth media) like Mobil 1 will abslutely filter better new. They just catch more stuff in their 3 dimensional pockets. Simple paper media filters might at one point in their lifes improve but then they will go the other way as Stinky indicated.

 

[pscholte]

AE...

Remarkable results...I'm not sure whether to salute you

or question your boldness

. From these UOAs I certainly have no evidence-based reason to persist in my objection to thin oils (specifically those with an HTHS of

 

[bbcmat]

I'm just glad to read about an enthusiast with the means and passion to DRIVE these wonderful machines - certainly a better use than having them tucked away and rubbed with a diaper!

Bravo!!

MAT

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bbcmat:
I'm just glad to read about an enthusiast with the means and passion to DRIVE these wonderful machines - certainly a better use than having them tucked away and rubbed with a diaper!

Bravo!!

MAT

---

Seriously! Most exotic cars have like 5,000 miles on them when they're 10 years old. Hass is putting that kinda mileage on in a couple months! That's the way it should be. It's not a statue.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
the use of some more expensive cars varies so much
Over the years I have been fortunate to have owned quite a few and typically Porsche owners cover about 10kkms (6k miles)per annum. Benz SL owner's use levels are about the same
In the last decade use levels have risen somewhat

European owners of these cars seem to be nearly double the average

Lessor used cars are more troublesome. Cam pitting, cooling system corrosion and electrical problems are most common in such cars

Ferraris of past years typically seem to require engine rebuilds early in their life

Regards
Doug

 

[AEHaas]

Doug is right on. Go to FerrariChat.com. Many Ferrari cars are garage queens. I call them the gold chain owners. They buy a Ferrari because the other gold chain people bought one.

Nothing rots a car better than sitting it idle in a damp garage, period.

These cars are actually better built, longer lasting and can take a much higher level of abuse if they are driven as opposed to parked.

Unfortunately these cars are rarely driven. When they are taken out they are pressed hard without a warm-up and otherwise left to rot, too bad.

i take mine out and blast it, but only after a full warm up. As far as I can tell the car just does not care.

aehaas

 

[Patman]

I also believe cars are meant to be driven, which is why I use my C5 Corvette as my daily driver. A large percentage of Corvette owners never drive their cars in the rain, let alone snow, but I take mine out in all kinds of weather, and will put 20-25k on it per year! It might not be a Ferrari, but it's the closest thing to an exotic on my budget.

 

[G-MAN]

Mark said they were now testing for antimony but I don't see it listed in their latest report on this oil.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
... Filters in general filter better clean. ...

---

That statement is incorrect.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Back that up with something Jason, we're all ears.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

This is not some new theory of mine. It is a basic principle of fabric filtration.
I run SAE J726 and MIL-PRF-46736E test almost constantly. The capacity test goes from ~3in w.g. initial on some housings to 20in w.g. final (on mostly all) and there is no dust passing due to the high differential. Actually one paragraph of the Mil spec has a DP test and it runs to 50 to 120 in. w.g. depending on the filter and no dust is ever forced through the media.

[ April 28, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
This is not some new theory of mine. It is a basic principle of fabric filtration.
I run SAE J726 and MIL-PRF-46736E test almost constantly. The capacity test goes from ~3in w.g. initial on some housings to 20in w.g. final (on mostly all) and there is no dust passing due to the high differential. Actually one paragraph of the Mil spec has a DP test and it runs to 50 to 120 in. w.g. depending on the filter and no dust is ever forced through the media.

---

Completely irrelevant data when it comes to oil filters. A dirty oil filter on average spends more time in bypass mode. Oil that bypasses the filter element is not filtered at all (obviously). Hence, in general, a dirty oil filter in effect doesn't filter as well as a clean one because it's not filtering as much oil as a clean one.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
This is not some new theory of mine. It is a basic principle of fabric filtration.
I run SAE J726 and MIL-PRF-46736E test almost constantly. The capacity test goes from ~3in w.g. initial on some housings to 20in w.g. final (on mostly all) and there is no dust passing due to the high differential. Actually one paragraph of the Mil spec has a DP test and it runs to 50 to 120 in. w.g. depending on the filter and no dust is ever forced through the media.

---

Completely irrelevant data when it comes to oil filters. A dirty oil filter on average spends more time in bypass mode. Oil that bypasses the filter element is not filtered at all (obviously). Hence, in general, a dirty oil filter in effect doesn't filter as well as a clean one because it's not filtering as much oil as a clean one.

---

Not irrelevant at all. That was my point. He said it goes through the media. My point was that it could just be bypassing more
often. It's not "going through media"

By the way the statement from above was "Filters in general filter better clean." No mention of oil. So either way it is completely relevant.

 

[Winston]

Do automobile oil filters ever get dirty enough that they get to bypass mode during normal operating temps? I wonder if a 5000 mile old oil filter has a detectable difference in flow resistance than a new one.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Since we are discussing oil filters and not air filters I didn't feel it was necessary to state the obvious. I am searching for something to backup my statement but I was not referring to bypass condition, I'm talking going through the media.

What kind of pressure differential do you see on the type of filters you test Jason?

If I am wrong I'm not afraid to admit it.

Winston, I hope not! IMHO a bypass is a potential catastrophic event, almost as bad as a ruptured filter.

 

[Winston]

Re: filter bypass. I think Gary Allen's device has shown that an oil filter is in bypass for a short time whenever you do a cold start.

Re: old filters not working as well as new filters. I think Jason is correct that a "loaded" filter works better than a clean filter. I have a recent example. A friend of mine at work has a pool that recently got very cloudy. After talking to the local pool supply house, they said at this time of year, based on the types of trees around your house the cloudiness is caused by pollen which is too fine for your filter to remove(cartridge filter). They gave her a powder to dump in the pool which they said would load up the filter causing it to filter finer particles than when it was clean. She dumped the powder in and in a few days the pool was nice and clear.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
Re: filter bypass. I think Gary Allen's device has shown that an oil filter is in bypass for a short time whenever you do a cold start.
..

---

I thought it only went into bypass with the thicker oil. It didn't with 5w30 if i remember right.

We should know if 5k miles loads the filter enough to cause bypass from his test also. I don't think it will. At least I think that was part of the plan. I haven't read that thread in a while.

 

[Winston]

I do not think a filter will get too loaded after 5k miles either. I think you could remove the filter. Perform 7500k synthetic oil changes and easily get 200k out of an engine.