2002 Maxima, VQ35DE = Fail...Oil problem?

[Carzzz]

Originally Posted By: AndyM
The previous owner left 26 oil change receipts in the dashboard, that comes to about 2884 miles per oil change. And his daily commute was 5 miles. The car was meticulously maintained and stealer serviced.
There was noticeable wear on the rod bushings and the cam lobes have noticeable hot spots on the tips.


Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.

 

[Drivebelt]

None of the wear metals (iron, copper, lead, etc.) in that UOA report are out of line with normal wear. So, going on that UOA, this has nothing to do with the oil.

It could be a defect engine, or, perhaps the previous oil change reports are not accurate (fudged).

 

[JohnBrowning]

I know stuff like this belongs on a Jerry Springer Forum!!!

 

[JohnBrowning]

That car say lots of High Sustained RPM use with [censored] oil! When you get used parts from Japan for any high performance engine the head almost always shows signs of sustained high rpm use along with rod bushing wear that is out of line with the miles on the engine!!! Tell tale signs of lots of rev's with no load and lots of sustained high rpm use!Most do not spend the money on high end oil becuase in Japan you will not get to keep the car long enough to wear it out they have some strict laws on emissions and vechile inspections.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: Carzzz

Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.


Nissan was unwilling to fix it? where have I heard that before?

 

[AndyM]

Originally Posted By: Carzzz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
The previous owner left 26 oil change receipts in the dashboard, that comes to about 2884 miles per oil change. And his daily commute was 5 miles. The car was meticulously maintained and stealer serviced.
There was noticeable wear on the rod bushings and the cam lobes have noticeable hot spots on the tips.


Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.


You're over analyzing, the owner is a bank manager in a very large bank in Missouri and was anal retentive about the maintenance on his car. I can guarantee that if something was wrong with this car I would have known it, it's simply not something you can cover up.

 

[AndyM]

Originally Posted By: jmsbntz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: jmsbntz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
I put kroil on top of the cylinders over night, unplugged the ignition before we started it and primed the oil for 180 seconds and then let it idle 30 minutes before we changed the oil.

Would you explain the steps you took to do this including starting the engine? Also did you do it to all three engines?


That's a pretty good explanation of what I did, I don't know how to say it better.

There were only TWO replacement engines...the first one of course came with the car....

Sorry, I was also asking about the original engine, so just one engine was kroiled?
Did you use the spray can or liquid form?
Pull the plugs and spray or pour it in?
Use a vacuum line while while the engine was running?
Crank it over several times with the starter and the plugs out before installing them and trying to start it?

Just trying to crunch all the details to help me sort out what might have happened...


The 1st motor (the one that blew up) was never treated as it was running when I purchased it....
The 3rd motor was treated to 1 ounce of kroil poured in through the spark plugs holes over night, then a quart of oil poured over all the cams, that oil was primed by unplugging the ignition system and turning the car over with the battery, then the oil was drained (as there was some old oil in there), a new filter put on and new oil installed, that oil was primed with the coils unplugged too, but it was primed for 180 seconds. Then we started the car and let it run 30 minutes before we changed the oil for a 3rd time.

That said, all of this is irrelevant since I am only talking about the 1st and original motor that was running Amsoil.

 

[addyguy]

As others have said, this engine was abused...Nissan 'VQ' don't just fail for no reason.

Yes, maybe it was owned by a very respectable bank manager, and maybe he didn't 'race' the car in the traditional sense...but who is to say he didn't take out his daily frustrations on this poor car? Who is to say that after his long, hard days, he didn't get in the car, start it, and floor it as hard as he could out of the parking lot? Once he's on the road, he drives sanely, but these 'outbursts' when the engine is cold wil fininsh off an engine sooner than anything else....

I don't know ow many times a day I see people in suits, driving fancy cars, absolutely thrasing them thru morning traffic...they don't 'speed', but to get up to speed, you can hear the engine hit the limiter....heck, even I've been guilty of it!

 

[JohnBrowning]

VQ engines are built really solid they can have some consumption issues and when raced they tend to throw a lot of lead but other then that they are rock solid. So something was up!The worst think that would happen to an engine assumeing it did not like the oil you where running and assumeing it was at least as good as an SJ oil would be a few points increase in wear metals and some big drop in flash point and increase in insolubles you would not see an engine self destruct. Now if the oil pump,pickup tube or screen where defective in any way it would simulate a dry engine situation. On top of that if the viscosity was so out of line that it would not build decent pressure your engine oil light should have come on and that engine would have been makeing a racket like you have never heard.

The bent rod could have been from Kroil that was still in the CC when you cranked it. Any time I put liquid in a cylinder and let it soak over night I laways leave the spark plugs out with a rag over them and I hand crank the engine by hand with a rachet and socket on the crank pulley to make ssure any liquid is clear of the combustion chamber prior to fireing it up to prevent hydrolock and a bent rod!

 

[lazaro]

Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: Carzzz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
The previous owner left 26 oil change receipts in the dashboard, that comes to about 2884 miles per oil change. And his daily commute was 5 miles. The car was meticulously maintained and stealer serviced.
There was noticeable wear on the rod bushings and the cam lobes have noticeable hot spots on the tips.


Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.


You're over analyzing, the owner is a bank manager in a very large bank in Missouri and was anal retentive about the maintenance on his car. I can guarantee that if something was wrong with this car I would have known it, it's simply not something you can cover up.

after all this theory thrown around loosely the facts are--- oil sample was good and the original broke engine was replaced but never opened up to see the damage. my theroy is those 26 oil change reciepts were just paper and the oil never got changed and this is why the engine expired, blame the place where the banker took his car for service.

 

[AndyM]

Originally Posted By: lazaro
Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: Carzzz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
The previous owner left 26 oil change receipts in the dashboard, that comes to about 2884 miles per oil change. And his daily commute was 5 miles. The car was meticulously maintained and stealer serviced.
There was noticeable wear on the rod bushings and the cam lobes have noticeable hot spots on the tips.


Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.


You're over analyzing, the owner is a bank manager in a very large bank in Missouri and was anal retentive about the maintenance on his car. I can guarantee that if something was wrong with this car I would have known it, it's simply not something you can cover up.

after all this theory thrown around loosely the facts are--- oil sample was good and the original broke engine was replaced but never opened up to see the damage. my theory is those 26 oil change receipts were just paper and the oil never got changed and this is why the engine expired, blame the place where the banker took his car for service.


Hey Thanks Lazaro! For again posting with a complete lack of conjecture or fact and supplying us with an intelligent theory of your own! I'm sure I can vouch for the rest of the readers when I say that I highly appreciate it! :sarcasm:

The fact is you are wrong, I have opened up both the top and the bottom of the motor and the wear on both the cams and rod bushings are in tune with a 95k motor, moreover the motor itself contains NO, ZERO, NADA sludge. The newused motor that I received as a replacement supposedly has 20k less miles but looks significantly worse than mine.

Again, please, if you don't have anything useful to add, please please please don't jack my thread anymore.

 

[Carzzz]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
[Nissan was unwilling to fix it? where have I heard that before?

Personal experience (VQ35DE with secondary timing-chain tensioner problem) and many forum mates... I am glad you don't own a Nissan car !!!

 

[lazaro]

Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: lazaro
Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: Carzzz
Originally Posted By: AndyM
The previous owner left 26 oil change receipts in the dashboard, that comes to about 2884 miles per oil change. And his daily commute was 5 miles. The car was meticulously maintained and stealer serviced.
There was noticeable wear on the rod bushings and the cam lobes have noticeable hot spots on the tips.


Why would that VQ35DE had 26 times OC in 79k miles? Either the previous owner knows there is a mechanical problem since the beginning, but nissan was unwilling to fix it (This is common). Or this was a track car. I think the engine was abused for 5miles street racing on a daily basis

.


You're over analyzing, the owner is a bank manager in a very large bank in Missouri and was anal retentive about the maintenance on his car. I can guarantee that if something was wrong with this car I would have known it, it's simply not something you can cover up.

after all this theory thrown around loosely the facts are--- oil sample was good and the original broke engine was replaced but never opened up to see the damage. my theory is those 26 oil change receipts were just paper and the oil never got changed and this is why the engine expired, blame the place where the banker took his car for service.


Hey Thanks Lazaro! For again posting with a complete lack of conjecture or fact and supplying us with an intelligent theory of your own! I'm sure I can vouch for the rest of the readers when I say that I highly appreciate it! :sarcasm:

The fact is you are wrong, I have opened up both the top and the bottom of the motor and the wear on both the cams and rod bushings are in tune with a 95k motor, moreover the motor itself contains NO, ZERO, NADA sludge. The newused motor that I received as a replacement supposedly has 20k less miles but looks significantly worse than mine.

Again, please, if you don't have anything useful to add, please please please don't jack my thread anymore.

ok maybe your right maybe Im wrong?
I still dont know what was causing the noise I heard on the video.
if it was my engine I could put my finger on worn noisy engine part and post up the digital pictures.
just a thought

 

[jmsbntz]

Andy,
Its been over a month since you uploaded your engine knocking videos to You Tube with the information I quoted below:

"From: andymuffins
Joined: 1 year ago
Videos: 5
Added: June 16, 2008 (More info)
2002 Nissan Maxima 6spd with knock. 95,000 miles. Ran Amsoil Signature Select 0w30 on 8k extended oil drain."


The You Tube mileage/knocking information contradicts the information in your first post, 74k + 20k + 2.5k = 96.5k which is the mileage when you say it started knocking.

Originally Posted By: AndyM
Hey Guys, I'm very knew to this forum although my brother comes here frequently.

Very recently my 96xxx mile 2002 Nissan Maxima 6-spd manual bit the dust. I use this car as a daily driver and have meticulously maintained it since I bought it with 74k on the clock from a bank manager who maintained it very well.

I switched the oil almost immediately to AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 with their EA oil filter as well.

At 96.5K I got in it one morning to leave and started it and it began knock very badly, it was more like a rapid tap. Click here for a youtube video.

There was no warning, I'm very aware of my cars activity and sounds it makes, and I have never heard before then anything abnormal.
I had been using AMSOIL Signature Series for 20k miles, the previous OCI had been 8k miles total, and the current mileage on the oil was 2500 miles.

I just performed an engine swap...twice in the car. The first motor we got bent a rod 20 minutes after we started it, the second motor seems fine so far.

Here is my question; What kind of oil do I run in it now? I'm very afraid to run amsoil in it again, the used oil analysis results should be in this afternoon but that won't be definitive, the current oil was not the problem is my logical reasoning, my guess is it was the OCI before the current one.

In the newused motor I'm running Halvoline 5w30 conventional as I've heard the Ad pack is good in it.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Andy


Below you suggest possible hydrolock damage. Hydrolock only happens when too much of any liquid (water, antifreeze, gasoline, oil, Kroil, the list goes on) gets into the cylinder on the compression stroke. So what happened that makes you suspect hydrolock?

Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Was there a catastrophic loss of oil pressure?


I honestly don't know. I have no oil pressure gauge in this car, but I do have a OP light, but it did not come on.

We've taken the old block mostly apart, the bottom half is off, and the timing chain cover. Our best guess is wrist pin/piston slap. When rotating the crank through we always hit a rough spot that is hard to rotate through. It's not a lifter and not anything to do with the timing chain. Best guess is hydrolock caused a wrist pin breakage.


Kroiling the engine to loosen the piston rings and prevent hydrolock... What is hydrolock to you?

Originally Posted By: AndyM
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I'm confused. But I've been really busy lately. I tried to follow this - can you please type a simple stacked time line, oldest to now.

You are on your third engine in this same car?

The tick of death video, that's not the current engine with AMSOIL Signature Series?


LOL! Am I confusing everyone?!

1st and original motor with car:
Had exactly 96K on it when it died. It ran AMSOIL Signature Series for 20k miles. At moment of failure the oil had approx 2500 miles on it. The PREVIOUS oil interval had exactly 8128 miles on the oil change (I'm just showing how far apart my OCI's are).

2nd motor (salvage yard):

Salvage yard claimed it had 39k on it, they lied lied lied. It had no less than 120k on it or it was maintained very poorly. I installed it with the help of my brother anyway.
Oreilly's was running a special so we put valvoline in it for the first 30 minute warm up, it didn't make it that long, bent a rod.

3rd and final motor:

This one was claiming to be a 79k motor, it actually looked like it. Good maintenance, very little wear. We kroil treated this motor over night to loosen the piston rings and prevent hydrolock, I poured a quart of Peak 5w30 on top of each head/cam. Primed the system by turning the motor with the ignition systems plugged in, drained that oil. Put in Halvoline 5w30, ran for thirty minute, drained that oil, installed more Halvoline.

I don't want anyone to get confused here. All I'm talking about is the ORIGINAL motor. Nothing else.


Back to the future we have a 07/20/08 used oil analysis sample date that appears to match the June 16, 2008 You Tube MI/HR on unit info, but now has 2.5k vs. 8k on the oil...

Originally Posted By: AndyM
used oil analysis IN!

Sorry it's a picture, I couldn't find a pdf to jpg converter so I could host it on my image site. Looks like oil was not the culprit.

Andy


So put it all together for us would you please?

I've asked the moderators to move this to the mechanical maintenance forum since it is not an oil related failure.

I'll leave it to you to ask that the moderators delete your prematurely implied scapegoat (Amsoil) from the topic.

 

[Pablo]

Pretty much why I gave up on this one a couple days ago. Nothing jibes.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: jmsbntz

I've asked the moderators to move this to the mechanical maintenance forum since it is not an oil related failure.

I'll leave it to you to ask that the moderators delete your prematurely implied scapegoat (Amsoil) from the topic.


It has been moved. If I knew how to change the topic on all bazillion posts I would.

It's time for everyone to quit flogging both sides of this poor dead horse. AndyM has said that he no longer blames the failure on the oil. Let the horse rest in peace.

For any future posts in this thread, please remove Amsoil from the subject line.

Please keep posts in this thread on point and factual and play nice.

From a few posts up in this thread.

Originally Posted By: AndyM
UOA IN!

Sorry it's a picture, I couldn't find a pdf to jpg converter so I could host it on my image site. Looks like oil was not the culprit.

Andy

 

[AndyM]

jmsbntz, I was trying to be as simple as possible when posted the youtube vid originally and wasn't aware of the jargon that I have now.
I was merely trying to convey that I was using a 8k OCI. I thought at the time that OCI and extended oil drain were the same. Sorry for the mistake.
I'm not trying to deceive anyone here, my mileage is accurate and I have receipts from oil purchases detailing my OCI's.

Yes I'm familiar with what hydrolock is. Future warning, I'm not yelling at you, just making sure that everyone See's this...THERE WAS NO KROIL IN THE ORIGINAL MOTOR, I'm very sorry even brought that up, I only put kroil in the replacement motor to loosen up the rings because of the time the motor had set on a shelf.
Some theories of mine where that I had a failed ring and some oil bound in the CC, an injector went haywire, an EGR oil recycle part forced to much oil into the CC. I don't know, I'm just theorizing, I'll get to the shop today and pull the pistons.

Andy

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

I own a 2002 Maxima (auto) currently with 74k on the clock. These are stout engines.

Did this sound occur when you bought the car or 20K miles later?

My theory would be that one of those 26 oil changes was not done well (too much oil, too little oil, etc). I had an F-150 with receipts for 5K mile tire rotations over 40K miles at a very reputable Ford dealer. After moving out of state, getting a tire rotation, it was obvious none of the rotations ever happened. Point is, it happens. It is very likely, if the banker was not a hot rodder, that the car was somehow abused during maintenance, returned to the dealer and covered up (either by the owner or the dealer).

Until you put your finger on exactly where that loud tapping is coming from and produce some pictures of the parts, all of this is conjecture.