2002 Camaro SS, Royal Purple 10w30

[Patman]

One of the other moderators on LS1Tech.com asked me about oil analysis a few weeks ago
and I recommended Terry to him. Here are the results on his 2002 Camaro SS using Royal
Purple 10w30 street oil. Lots of drag racing done with this car.

The oil had 1,250 miles on it and had been in for close to three months. 8,850 miles on the engine at the time of the sample

copper 93

Iron 13

Chromium 0

lead 19

aluminum 2

silicon 12

Molybdenum 103

sodium 514

Magnesium 698

tin 0

zinc 1140

potassium 0

calcium 1390

water neg neg,trace or pos

fuel neg neg,trace or pos

glycol neg neg ,trace,or pos

oxidation 57 scale is 0 to 199 so if you compare to other
labs this would equate to about 29%. Normal

Nitration 67 same as above = about 34%

sulfur 62

TBN 10

Vis @100c 9.5 9.9 new/ clean so this is ok. 30w.

 

[Al]

Thanks for posting. For that milage-not very impressive. Do you think the Copper is an additive? Possibly has something to do with GM antisieze. My sons 2001 GrandAm had 97 copper after 6K miles which is high.

 

[Patman]

I'm kinda new to this oil analysis stuff but I thought the oxidation looked a tad high for
such a low amount of miles. I wonder if this stuff could have possibly made it to 5000 miles?

 

[Bror Jace]

Don't some oils use copper as a high-pressure wear preventative? Royal Purple advertises it's proprietary ingredient "Synerlec" and this might be some copper derivative ... or at least have copper in it.

I'm surprised to see copper higher than lead ... but yes, it might be a type of anti-seize GM uses.

The results look "just OK" to me ... nothing special. To be sure, though, you'd have to compare it to a baseline. All we have is one sample's analysis and no other engines of this type to compare it to.

 

[Patman]

I just got a PM from Trevor (owner of this SS) and he tells me that he didn't change out
this batch of oil yet, so he will be sampling it again in a little while, so we can see how this
oil holds up over the longer duration (not sure how long he plans on pushing it though)

One thing I do wonder though. I found that RP advertises the viscosity of this oil as being
10.1cst at 100C. So having it drop to 9.5 so soon seems to me like maybe this oil is not
all that stable? It's already close to a 20 weight (which would be 9.3 or less), and I bet
would hit that mark before 3k.

 

[Trevor D]

I'm the owner of the SS that had the analysis done, and I'm honestly disappointed with the results. It was close to three months and right at 1,250 since the oil and filter had been changed, and to see that it was already close to becoming a 20 wt. oil is disturbing! I shift the car at 6,800 RPM, and the last thing I want is a 20 wt. oil protecting my bearings!

I put RP 10w-30 back in with another AC Delco PF-58 filter. After seeing these disappointing results, I'm very apprehensive to go much past the same mileage of this last sample. I'm hearing all of this great stuff about Shaeffer (sp?) oil, and I see that they offer a 10w-30. How does it compare to RedLine's 10w-30, both in product and in price? The cheapest I've found for RedLine is $7/qt. I'm thinking that I'll put the same amount of miles on the new oil that's currently in the engine and see if I turn up with the same results. Considering that I do race this car frequently, what oil would all of you recommend? On a sidenote, I have had a K&N air filter installed on this car since it had 480 miles on it, and it is apparently working well.

I want to thank Patman for giving me Terry's name and showing me this board! Because of him, I'm now addicted to oil analyses.

I won't change the oil in my SS again without having one done.

[ June 20, 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Trevor D ]

 

[Patman]

Welcome aboard Trevor! I'm looking forward to your future analysis results!

 

[Johnny]

Trevor D: Welcome to the site.

I checked out you website. NICE CAR. I liked the first picture from Ennis. Brings back fond memories. I lived in Dallas for 40 years. Considering you like to thrash it on the strip, I would recommend the Red Line Oil. You can get it there in Dallas as Motorsports Sales.

 

[Bror Jace]

Trevor, I use Red Line and so far it seems to be fantastic stuff ... but my Honda may have unrelated glycol "issues" which may cause me to use shorter intervals, at least for a while. Red Line (in my opinion) is too expensive to drain every 3,000-4,000 miles so I will have to go with something else.

So, I may switch to Schaeffer later this summer.

All my information suggests that both brands are a PAO/polyol blend with molybdenum additives but Red Line has a greater amount of polyol ester as well as more moly. Whether the extra moly offers any extra protection is a matter of debate.

I recommend that if you run your car VERY HARD and you want the BEST oil (another $30-50 per year be ****ed!) go with Red Line. Go to a road-racing course and see what they use. At least 2 out of 3 will be running Red Line and their street oils are merely their race oils with a different additive package tio fight corrosion and sludge over longer stretches of time.

If you want a good synthetic or synthetic blend that offers excellent protection AND is a pretty good value for your money, I'd suggest Schaeffer as one good alternative to the really pricey stuff.

Searching this site, you'll see I'm not a fan of Royal Purple or any of the mass-market synthetics which are API certified. I'd rather go with an SL-rated dino oil and merely change it quite often.

 

[Bror Jace]

Oh, and on the K&N, I have had similar excellent results from mine despite hearing horror stories about all sorts of dirt getting through. I merely suggest that you use a LOT of oil in it.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Guys,

Schaeffers is available to anywhere in the 48 states and I think 2 places in canada (toronto/ontario).

The cost of schaeffers oils from tim mills in texarkana is 3.00 a qt(with exception to the race oil, which is a little higher but not much), as he will ship any quanity. There is several other reps that run on this board as well that can help if in case lots and over 250.00 min.

As for the high rev'n engine, schaeffers makes an actual race engine oil, not to be used like a standard motor oil as it's tbn/detergent additive packages are not designed for over the road use but for racing. It will do a standard 3k drain but depending on your abuse, may extend from that but I'd do oil analysis if that is the case.

The next step is to consider the 15w40 as it has excellent low temp pumpability but yet provides a little better hydrodyamic lubrication than the 10w30 can, as well as high levels of tbn detergents/antioxidant additives as well as a very strong additive package which can go for the longer drain intervals you may be looking for.

If it was me, my choice would be the # 700 15w40 supreme 7000 listed on my main page under techdata.

Don't let this fool you just because it is a blend and not a so called "full synth", it can produce an extremely desirable result.

Another oil that alot of our racers use is our straight 50wt as it wont shear out near as easily as some of the multiviscosity oils.

[ June 21, 2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

REDLINE is the BEST? kinda left the door open on that one didn't we? I think there is a few of us that would be offended to think you know something we didn't.

Here is some of the people who use our race oils and such...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/race.html

who all uses redline? I know there is quite a few, but not sure who they might be.

bob

[ June 21, 2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Johnny]

BOBISTHEOILGUY: Bob, go to your filter page. Look under topic Plugged Amsoil Filter by Pick. I have given Schaeffer's the best recommendation I can. Pick is in Ohio and has never heard of Schaeffer's and wants to know where to get it. Pick is a farmer. Lot's of opportunity for someone. The only reason I said anything about Red Line is because of my past experience with the product. So, I work for a major oil company and I have recommended Schaeffer's and Red Line. I must be loseing my mind.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

thanks johnny.
I really didn't mean to lose mine last night and fear i may have overstepped

so please accept my appologies as I know you have done so and really appreciate your's and everyone elses as well.

bob

 

[Patman]

Bob that's ok, this is your board after all, and I don't think you overstepped the boundary there. I will certainly do my part to put the word out about Schaeffers oils, but at the same time I don't want to sound like an Amsoil salesman!

 

[Johnny]

Bob, appology accepted but not needed. This is your site. I don't see how you keep it together as you do. One of my good friends, and competitor sells Schaeffer's products and my neighbor sells Amsoil. I just love to get the two of them together. It drives our wives crazy. Thanks for this great site.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'd love to be in the middle of that one as well but unfortunatly I cannot find any of those boys that actually have any intelligence on the subject other than what has been fed to them down in this area. (no, I'm not reffering to you don s.)

 

[Bror Jace]

Bobis: "REDLINE is the BEST? kinda left the door open on that one didn't we?"

Yep, I suppose I did.

I have looked at that racing page ... and you'll have to excuse me if I remain unconvinced of Schaeffer's supremacy in this niche.

See, I'm a sports and formula racing car fan ... where life begins at 9,000 RPMs.

The fact that a lot of good ole' boys have had impressive results with Schaeffer in their pushrod V6s and V8s doesn't convince me that it is necessarily the best race oil available.

I still think that for the most extreme applications (high-RPM racing), a polyol-heavy is the way to go and it appears I'm not alone. However, few car guys (even some racers) need this level of fluid performance. I still think that Schaeffer is a better value but if you want the best product period, I think Red Line is more likely to be the stuff to use.

I walked through the Paddock at Limerock Park on Memorial day and looked at all the racers in the Speed Touring, Speed GT and SCCA Trans-Am classes and 95+% of them (with nearly 100 cars total) used Red Line Oil. Two used Royal Purple and I think I saw a Valvoline patch on one of the driver's nomex racing suit ... but it might have been old.

[ June 22, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Bror Jace ]

 

[Trevor D]

Thanks for the great info and insight guys! This really does help me out. On the next go-around with oil changes, I will probably try RedLine in my SS and maybe Schaeffer's in my truck?

I'm definitely going to have the Castrol that I just put in my truck analyzed at the end of 3k just to have some data. With the RedLine and Schaeffer's, I'll be sure to drain just enough for my sample each time. With what I'll spend in oil, I don't want to get rid of it if it's not time yet!

I'm getting eager to change my oil now. LOL!
BTW, thanks for the compliment Johnny.

 

[Bror Jace]

Johnny: "I work for a major oil company and I have recommended Schaeffer's and Red Line. I must be loseing my mind."

Don't feel so bad, Johnny, I was at a Honda board and along came some dude who worked for Mobil in Texas. I forget where, exactly but he worked at the plant that made/blended Mobil 1. He also ran a speed shop on the side and was trolling for business (against board rules).

Anyway, I was doin' my thing which at the time included complaining about Mobil 1's lackluster wear protection and my Civic's piston slap and this dude ripped into me. He accused me of trying to scare everyone into using an exotic, boutique oil like Red Line. We started something of a little flame war but the guy didn't know a Group II base from home base.

So, he wasn't much fun.

Anway, after we argued a while, the guy actually admitted he used Red Line in his drag cars. Gotta love it!

I also had to give him points for being honest even though he wouldn't answer me when i asked him why he didn't use Mobil 1 in his race cars.

Anyway, true racing (not merely the occasional stoplight contest) and certain industrial applications are a niche market and a large oil corporation such as yours is better suited to more mainstream applications of lubricating technology.

I'm sure you know this, but I felt the need to let everyone else know as well.