2 x E-Core (shocker) , 20k+ Fram, P Classic - Pics

[Gary Allan]

..and I said it too, if you check back a bit. ..but someone was talking about the BBC that got grenaded by an Ecore when the "unwise" builder insisted on doing a common "racer's" practice ..that for the life of me ..I can't figure out why anyone would do it. It must simply be because Ford's and Mopar's can't. I see neither Ford's or 'Par's grenading due to NOT having a bypass to defeat, nor do I see Ford or 'Par racers using 3/4-16 filters (that are available) without bypasses. I really want to

at those who do this without thinking it out ..but I really don't want to insult anyone who was following some leader that they don't know ..somewhere back in ancient history.

"Why do you do that?"

"Well, ..I dunno ..it's just what you do:

That's it

 

[daman]

They do it because you'll get full 100% filtering through the filter instead of some dirty going through bypass, i remember reading this in Hotrod mag.

Gary remember last year me and you had this same discussion because i mentioned i did this a SBC?? (little secrete still running it like that today no issues),but thats another story im working on,don't want to discuss it now will have pics and pressure readings at a later date,i don't want to get off topic here i want to keep focus on how esares are worthless filters.

 

[webfors]

I didn't expect to find anything in the used oil. There's just to many places that bit of media can go. I emptied all 6 jugs through a screen. Nothing except for a couple of bees that had settled in the catch can last summer

 

[Gary Allan]

Hey, I didn't bring it up ..at least I don't think I did..


I do not think Ecores are worthless filters. I don't buy them due to others (mostly) cheaper or worth the difference (imo). They're now $2.84 at Wally's and I can get ProSelect for $2.29 and MC for (iirc) $3.75.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Hey, I didn't bring it up ..at least I don't think I did..


I do not think Ecores are worthless filters. I don't buy them due to others (mostly) cheaper or worth the difference (imo). They're now $2.84 at Wally's and I can get ProSelect for $2.29 and MC for (iirc) $3.75.

Who knows no big deal,haha,anyway how could one not think there [censored] filters? this thread explains with pics why they are!!!

but to each is there own i guess.

 

[webfors]

Gary, you referring to a Napa ProSelect? I checked out my local napa store yesterday and found them for around $3 for a 1348. That's the least expensive filter I've found in Canada yet, and they have all the traits of a safe/reliable filter. They could use more media, but that's the difference between it and the Napa Gold which is selling for about $7.

Here's some pics of the Proselect I cut open today. It has all the traits of a *safe* filter and I'll be using it going forward, especially since it cost less:

The glue job on the end caps is is about as thick and solid as I've ever seen on a filter. The picture doesn't do it justice:

Metal crimp to tie the media ends together:

And the media is MUCH thicker than the media from the ecore. Might be less square inches, but it is definitely thicker and very well secured.

 

[daman]

Now there's a gosh darn filter!!!

needs more media but light years ahead of that escare [censored].

 

[daman]

Heck even a $.95 AAP total grip is a better filter.

 

[Boss302fan]

Great filter for the price. May have to buy Napa Proselect instead of the Gold. Are these good for 7500K miles?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: daman
Now there's a gosh darn filter!!!

needs more media but light years ahead of that escare [censored].


Agreed. They had the ProSelect and the Gold cut open at the Napa store, and there was a big difference in the amount of pleats between the two. For 3.2k mile oci's on the saturn the proselect will do just fine. I like the bypass separated from the adbv. I don't understand how the ecore adbv/bypass combo can possibly replace this.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Great filter for the price. May have to buy Napa Proselect instead of the Gold. Are these good for 7500K miles?


For 7.5k miles I'd stick with the Gold IMHO. I'm sure the filter will stand up, but less media = less capacity.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Great filter for the price. May have to buy Napa Proselect instead of the Gold. Are these good for 7500K miles?


For 7.5k miles I'd stick with the Gold IMHO. I'm sure the filter will stand up, but less media = less capacity.

I agree....slightly better media on the gold.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: daman
Heck even a $.95 AAP total grip is a better filter.

After the Germans bought them out, they quit using the string. Current filters may be better or worse, but don't judge them by those pictures. Maybe they even have more uniform pleats.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Great filter for the price. May have to buy Napa Proselect instead of the Gold. Are these good for 7500K miles?


For 7.5k miles I'd stick with the Gold IMHO. I'm sure the filter will stand up, but less media = less capacity.


I agree.. Gold it is.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: labman

After the Germans bought them out, they quit using the string. Current filters may be better or worse, but don't judge them by those pictures. Maybe they even have more uniform pleats.

No..

I'm saying there a good filter,especially compared to the escares.

 

[AuthorEditor]

It may have just been my particular application, but I noticed low oil pressure on start up in a marine diesel using various 15W-40 diesel oils and NAPA Gold filters. Using the OEM Perkins filter and Fram orange cans there was no problem, but in multiple OCIs I experienced an unusual delay in getting full pressure on start up using the Golds. It made me suspicious that the anti-drainback valve isn't that great on NAPA Golds. Filter is oriented horizontally. These are really big filters, same size as a Motorcraft FL1A, so YMMV.

 

[jeepman]

You convinced me. Returned the 3 PF47's from my stash, and went to Kmart and got 3 Purolator Classics instead. In fact, I didn't realize it before, but the Purolators were .18 cheaper. I always wondered with the massive open spaces in the "cage" how the media would hold up. I'm sure the E-Core is a decent filter, but your pics were stuck in my mind, so I couldn't sleep tonight if I still had one on there. I'll leave it up to others in the future to prove them to be a quality filter.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: daman
Heck even a $.95 AAP total grip is a better filter.

After the Germans bought them out, they quit using the string. Current filters may be better or worse, but don't judge them by those pictures. Maybe they even have more uniform pleats.
Apparently, not true. On certain application numbers it's seems they still use it as the recent Pure One/Distance Plus thread shows. Though the majority don't appear to use it, not that it's a big deal either way, IMO.

As far as rated efficiency goes, the current crop of P1's and Classic's are improved versus the old P1 and Premium Plus. Confirmed by river_rats bench tests.

And I'm not just judging by daman's (excellent) pics of the AAP TG. Having used them in the past and still using them and cutting them open numerous times, they are a heck of a filter for the money. A solid 5k OCI filter.

As for the OP's pics, I still would like to know what caused the pressure to get so high in the filter. Was it the combo valve or something else? Certainly in that situation, whatever caused it, the open ecore design would be more prone to a blow out or blow in as it were.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The filter still should not break internally like that and block the oil outlet if the filter bypass is not working. Champ claimed the filter saw a higher than 70 psi pressure differential. How would that be possible.

Impossible,,unless the BP faild.



Totally possible ..and a very serious risk that many (would be) Chevy race boys take with every start up. Many (again, would be) race boyz plug their in block filter bypass valve. Hence, the limit for PSID is the relief limit on the oil pump. If you rev it, like the bowtie guy's son did ..and out pace the relief port with gross pump output, you'll exceed it.

I've never found out where this practice originated. It's just way too (kindly worded) unwise. For the casual street rodder, who may not be using a racing filter sieve, he could (at best-worst) be driving around totally ignorant that he's got a hole in the media ..or (at worst:worst) collapse the metal center tube and destroy the engine.

Even if you use the sieve racing filters, what's the point? If you're blowing chunks ..you've got issues. Heck, leave the thing in and still run the sieve.

I'm not a supporter of blocking the filter bypass even with a race filter let alone a standard filter, but it is pretty common. I still don't see how the ecore in that situation saw over a 70 psi diferential. What would a BBC pump relief valve be set at? I'm thinking under 80 psi. So that would be saying the filter flowed essentially nothing. I'm not saying it is impossible but that would suggest the filter would be in bypass mode most of the time because it flows basically no cold oil.

What turned me off to the ecore was 2 things. As unlikely as it is to have a nonworking filter bypass, it showed the filter would have a catastrophic failure from the nylon cage beaking. And also before Champion dismissed the owner's claim they should've offered to test the oil pump to see if it would even allow 70 psi. Champion claimed there was a 70 psi pressure differential but there is no real proof.

So moral of the story is, should your filter bypass or the one in the ecore fail to work filter destruction and total blockage of oil flow is possible. And Champion will leave you holding the bag.

And now we find out that the pleats can unfold and blow out the media against the nylon cage even if the bypass is working.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
So that would be saying the filter flowed essentially nothing. I'm not saying it is impossible but that would suggest the filter would be in bypass mode most of the time because it flows basically no cold oil.


You answered your own question ..sorta.

Media is HIGHLY RESISTIVE to oil flow in a static sense. Pour cold oil in your filter and go do something while it manages to gravity feed through the VERY DENSE (compared to air) MEDIA.

If your engine isn't fully enveloped, there's nothing to provide BACK PRESSURE. Without a bypass valve, the media ends up being a virtual sail in an irresistible wind.

Now once the engine is enveloped, the PSID evaporates for the most part as it's now a kinetic combo shot with a table full of pool balls. The differential at that point is limited to the amount of fluid shunted via the pump relief, vs. the amount/percentage of flow going to the engine. As they match up and reach 1:1 ..that PSID goes away too.