Do 2 strokes have a redline? I know you can't float the valves in them, but I'm wondering (besides overheating) can you do any harm from prolonged full throttle.
2 stroke redline
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As long as your mix ratio is correct and there are no intake leaks you can run a "QUALITY" Pc of 2stroke equipment at WOT for as long as your need to run it..
In fact WOT is a good thing to keep the exhuast port and spark arrestor clean and free from unburnt oil build up often associated with low/slow RPM's or running.
Keep your mix ratio correct using good oil and you have no worries. Again the above info is for Quality equipement, not box store [censored] like Troy Built, RYOBI, Crafstman,and a number others..
In fact WOT is a good thing to keep the exhuast port and spark arrestor clean and free from unburnt oil build up often associated with low/slow RPM's or running.
Keep your mix ratio correct using good oil and you have no worries. Again the above info is for Quality equipement, not box store [censored] like Troy Built, RYOBI, Crafstman,and a number others..
Most two-strokes I know of live at or near WOT for their entire lives without issue. No valves to float, so that's not a concern.
I've always been told that it is not good to run chainsaws WOT for long periods of time while NOT under load (cutting).
I've read that it puts huge strain on engine components, i.e. connecting rod. Short bursts while adjusting the carb are o.k.. Someone chime in if I am wrong.
Other OPE like string trimmers and blowers have a constant "load" on them somewhat in their designs (heads or blower "fan".)
You can also exceed the recommended maximum rpms by adjusting the high needle too lean, causing both excessive rpm and low lubrication (on adjustable equipment). It's probably a good idea to warm up your engine a few minutes before going to WOT heavy use to allow the parts to expand/adjust properly. I agree with above posts, 2 strokes are designed to run at WOT.
I've read that it puts huge strain on engine components, i.e. connecting rod. Short bursts while adjusting the carb are o.k.. Someone chime in if I am wrong.
Other OPE like string trimmers and blowers have a constant "load" on them somewhat in their designs (heads or blower "fan".)
You can also exceed the recommended maximum rpms by adjusting the high needle too lean, causing both excessive rpm and low lubrication (on adjustable equipment). It's probably a good idea to warm up your engine a few minutes before going to WOT heavy use to allow the parts to expand/adjust properly. I agree with above posts, 2 strokes are designed to run at WOT.
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I have an echo backpack blower that pretty much runs full throttle most of the time. I run it at around half throttle or so for about 3 minutes to warm it up before going full throttle. That blower is the only 2 stroke that has a nice clean exhaust. My trimmer has lots of oily carbon buildup on the exhaust due to not being run full throttle all the time.
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2 strokes don't like to idle. They run rich at idle and foul spark plugs so they are much happier at full throttle. And smoother.
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I remember the old 2-stroke street bikes that were sold through the early 1980's had a redline on their tachometers.
So I would say that for something more sophisticated than a weed eater there would be a recommended maximum safe speed. Otherwise, the tiny OPE engines are likely regulated in speed by carburetor size and port efficiency.
So I would say that for something more sophisticated than a weed eater there would be a recommended maximum safe speed. Otherwise, the tiny OPE engines are likely regulated in speed by carburetor size and port efficiency.
Specific engine in question? They all have some point at which they will fly apart. Unloaded at full throttle = thrown rod.
Interestingly our "Low quality" Craftsman Leaf BLower and Weed Whacker, always are run under full throttle, and their exhausts are the cleanest I've ever seen on any 2-stroke, and they get used every week.
I use Gulf TCW-3 I picked up from the gas station sometime in the past 3 years.
I use Gulf TCW-3 I picked up from the gas station sometime in the past 3 years.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
2 strokes don't like to idle. They run rich at idle and foul spark plugs so they are much happier at full throttle. And smoother.
Thanks. I've been wondering why I keep fouling spark plugs. I ran the city's Sthil 4 mix for awhile and it seemed 'happiest' just a shade below WOT. At WOT and max RPMs it sounded coarse so I would constantly adjust depending on load.
The OPE I have is a Craftsman mini tiller (32cc 40:1). It sat for awhile after being stored by the book. After 3 years of sitting I'm just now using it again and sometimes it runs good, other times not. My current battle is that it runs pretty much fine at 1/2 choke but has limited top end power. At zero choke under load it will bog down under heavy throttle.
It usually tills best at half speed since its not heavy enough to dig into the ground. At WOT it just kind of grinds the dirt instead of getting into it.
A few weeks back, after I disassembled the non-adjustable and non servicable carb, put a new plug in and ditched the mix I made with 4 year old orange bottle Stihl and got fresh oil. It ran great and I ran it like that a while and thought it was time to adjust the idle so the tines didnt move at idle. So I left it idling a little while to get the idle down and ever since it started acting up again.
The purpose of this thread was that I was thinking it needed to be ran hard to clean out the pipes. I thought this was a bad idea, since in the past I ran it pretty hard in the upper rpms in the heat of summer and it suddenly died. The plug (champ rd7j) was pitch dark. I replaced it (3 years ago before storage) with the equilalent E3 that was supposedly foul-resistant. But like I said, either the carb soak fixed whatever happened after I ran it dry before storage or it was the new plug or new oil. I never adjusted the idle before storage, but out of storage it has idled way too high.
This is my only 2 stroke to have ever owned since I passed up the opportunity to get a KX100 to get a KX250F. I don't currently own a motorbike so this is the best performing engine I have now so I like it to be able to run smooth and sound right when I hit a good patch of soil that I can open her up on and till it quite nice and quickly. It just seems like I'm really getting something done when the engine is strumming like a well balanced mill when I have the tines adjusted low.
This tiller lets me imagine what its like to come out of a corner in a 125cc dirtbike. But they appear to be outlawing 2 cycles, they shut down the nearby tracks, woods aren't very good for a motoxer and they don't make them for the street anymore so this is all I have. They just kind of get your blood moving rapidly. They don't resist the revs like many 4 cycles do.
Maybe we can get some other applications of the 4 mix motor other than string trimmers. Those are fun to work, but for me, my yard isn't big enough to justify one. I had planned to forego the mower and use a 4 mix for the whole yard, but it just isnt feasible.
2 strokes don't like to idle. They run rich at idle and foul spark plugs so they are much happier at full throttle. And smoother.
Thanks. I've been wondering why I keep fouling spark plugs. I ran the city's Sthil 4 mix for awhile and it seemed 'happiest' just a shade below WOT. At WOT and max RPMs it sounded coarse so I would constantly adjust depending on load.
The OPE I have is a Craftsman mini tiller (32cc 40:1). It sat for awhile after being stored by the book. After 3 years of sitting I'm just now using it again and sometimes it runs good, other times not. My current battle is that it runs pretty much fine at 1/2 choke but has limited top end power. At zero choke under load it will bog down under heavy throttle.
It usually tills best at half speed since its not heavy enough to dig into the ground. At WOT it just kind of grinds the dirt instead of getting into it.
A few weeks back, after I disassembled the non-adjustable and non servicable carb, put a new plug in and ditched the mix I made with 4 year old orange bottle Stihl and got fresh oil. It ran great and I ran it like that a while and thought it was time to adjust the idle so the tines didnt move at idle. So I left it idling a little while to get the idle down and ever since it started acting up again.
The purpose of this thread was that I was thinking it needed to be ran hard to clean out the pipes. I thought this was a bad idea, since in the past I ran it pretty hard in the upper rpms in the heat of summer and it suddenly died. The plug (champ rd7j) was pitch dark. I replaced it (3 years ago before storage) with the equilalent E3 that was supposedly foul-resistant. But like I said, either the carb soak fixed whatever happened after I ran it dry before storage or it was the new plug or new oil. I never adjusted the idle before storage, but out of storage it has idled way too high.
This is my only 2 stroke to have ever owned since I passed up the opportunity to get a KX100 to get a KX250F. I don't currently own a motorbike so this is the best performing engine I have now so I like it to be able to run smooth and sound right when I hit a good patch of soil that I can open her up on and till it quite nice and quickly. It just seems like I'm really getting something done when the engine is strumming like a well balanced mill when I have the tines adjusted low.
This tiller lets me imagine what its like to come out of a corner in a 125cc dirtbike. But they appear to be outlawing 2 cycles, they shut down the nearby tracks, woods aren't very good for a motoxer and they don't make them for the street anymore so this is all I have. They just kind of get your blood moving rapidly. They don't resist the revs like many 4 cycles do.
Maybe we can get some other applications of the 4 mix motor other than string trimmers. Those are fun to work, but for me, my yard isn't big enough to justify one. I had planned to forego the mower and use a 4 mix for the whole yard, but it just isnt feasible.
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
2 strokes don't like to idle. They run rich at idle and foul spark plugs so they are much happier at full throttle. And smoother.
Thanks. I've been wondering why I keep fouling spark plugs. I ran the city's Sthil 4 mix for awhile and it seemed 'happiest' just a shade below WOT. At WOT and max RPMs it sounded coarse so I would constantly adjust depending on load.
The STIHL 4-MIX engines are amazing and I highly recommend them, often over most anything else.. I suspect when you felt the eng run "course" it's because the eng was bouncing the rev limiter not because it was adjusting to load.. Most likely from running the line to short.. It could also have been from running the line too long which slows the engine down enough that it runs at less then ideal RPM's (this is very common).
These units make a lot of torque for their size so unless you stuffing it into extremely tall grass it pretty much doesn't care..
"IF" it were me I'd buy the 4-MIX everyday (which is what I own BTW & have for several years), in fact I would opt for the KOMBI unit (again) and buy the attachments required for my specific needs. I own the Chain Saw, Edger, Hedge Clipper and of course String trimmer attachment..
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Interestingly our "Low quality" Craftsman Leaf BLower and Weed Whacker, always are run under full throttle, and their exhausts are the cleanest I've ever seen on any 2-stroke, and they get used every week.
I use Gulf TCW-3 I picked up from the gas station sometime in the past 3 years.
Uhhhh, YEA...
WOT is why their clean, no big surprise there at all..
Even though the exhaust is clean it won't turn a turd into a gold nugget.. These units only survive because they don't see any real use..
Try to run that WEEDWACKER through the FLORATAM grass we have here in Florida and it will quickly show it's true nature..
Seen as many POS units like these as I have and your opinion "may" change?? OR not, I suppose these units sell by the thousands for a reason but QUALITY aint on one of then that's fer sher..
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
2 strokes don't like to idle. They run rich at idle and foul spark plugs so they are much happier at full throttle. And smoother.
Thanks. I've been wondering why I keep fouling spark plugs. I ran the city's Sthil 4 mix for awhile and it seemed 'happiest' just a shade below WOT. At WOT and max RPMs it sounded coarse so I would constantly adjust depending on load.
The STIHL 4-MIX engines are amazing and I highly recommend them, often over most anything else.. I suspect when you felt the eng run "course" it's because the eng was bouncing the rev limiter not because it was adjusting to load.. Most likely from running the line to short.. It could also have been from running the line too long which slows the engine down enough that it runs at less then ideal RPM's (this is very common).
These units make a lot of torque for their size so unless you stuffing it into extremely tall grass it pretty much doesn't care..
"IF" it were me I'd buy the 4-MIX everyday (which is what I own BTW & have for several years), in fact I would opt for the KOMBI unit (again) and buy the attachments required for my specific needs. I own the Chain Saw, Edger, Hedge Clipper and of course String trimmer attachment..
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Interestingly our "Low quality" Craftsman Leaf BLower and Weed Whacker, always are run under full throttle, and their exhausts are the cleanest I've ever seen on any 2-stroke, and they get used every week.
I use Gulf TCW-3 I picked up from the gas station sometime in the past 3 years.
Uhhhh, YEA...
WOT is why their clean, no big surprise there at all..
Even though the exhaust is clean it won't turn a turd into a gold nugget.. These units only survive because they don't see any real use..
Try to run that WEEDWACKER through the FLORATAM grass we have here in Florida and it will quickly show it's true nature..
Seen as many POS units like these as I have and your opinion "may" change?? OR not, I suppose these units sell by the thousands for a reason but QUALITY aint on one of then that's fer sher..
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
That's why the low redline. Twice as many power events as a similar 4 stroker.
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
That's why the low redline. Twice as many power events as a similar 4 stroker.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
With just expansion chambers and rejetted carbs, my RD went north of redline many times without incident. I don't remember running it to 11,000 rpm but certainly 10,000. I had to keep up with a CB750F and a KZ650
(another friend had a snot green CB350 Four...we ran away from him pretty easily. Even so his 350 Four and my old "RingDing" 350 are on the big list of bikes I wish I could have)
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
With just expansion chambers and rejetted carbs, my RD went north of redline many times without incident. I don't remember running it to 11,000 rpm but certainly 10,000. I had to keep up with a CB750F and a KZ650
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
With just expansion chambers and rejetted carbs, my RD went north of redline many times without incident. I don't remember running it to 11,000 rpm but certainly 10,000. I had to keep up with a CB750F and a KZ650
(another friend had a snot green CB350 Four...we ran away from him pretty easily. Even so his 350 Four and my old "RingDing" 350 are on the big list of bikes I wish I could have)
Something of importance I don't see mentioned...
There is a BIG diff between MAX RPM and PEAK H/Power & Torque..
While these engines may very well rev above 10K I assure you they are NOT making anymore power at 11k then they are @ 10k..
While the idea that more revs means more power is a popular notion once in reality it's not true.. Once peak power is made more revs nets you zero. At that point your quite simply applying stresses to the engine unnecessarily.. While in certain applications over-rev is useful (holding a gear into or out of a corner while racing for example) in most instances it's just shortening engine life..
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think the redline on my old RD350 was 8500. Which really seems kinda' low. Especially by today's standards. But when you think about everytime that piston goes down, it's a power stroke, that doesn't seem so bad.
The stock RPM red line of 8500 on the old RD350 is a bit conservative. Many of the old two strokes are still around and a lot of them are used in certain forms of racing. The RD350 in race trim is often run past 11000 rpm but that's getting close to the limit of what the engine can handle. Speeds beyond that can cause the piston crown to separate and main bearings to cook. Racers prefer to use main bearings from the Yamaha factory racers (TZs) to cope with the higher rpms.
Accordingly, modern two cycle engines shouldn't have any issues running wot provided they have adequate lubrication and cooling.
With just expansion chambers and rejetted carbs, my RD went north of redline many times without incident. I don't remember running it to 11,000 rpm but certainly 10,000. I had to keep up with a CB750F and a KZ650
Something of importance I don't see mentioned...
There is a BIG diff between MAX RPM and PEAK H/Power & Torque..
While these engines may very well rev above 10K I assure you they are NOT making anymore power at 11k then they are @ 10k..
While the idea that more revs means more power is a popular notion once in reality it's not true.. Once peak power is made more revs nets you zero. At that point your quite simply applying stresses to the engine unnecessarily.. While in certain applications over-rev is useful (holding a gear into or out of a corner while racing for example) in most instances it's just shortening engine life..
My 2001 KTM 380 EXC dirt bike redlines at 8500. It makes good power up until that point, then signs off rather rapidly. Over rev is allowed, to 9600 on occasion. It's not easy to get it up that high and I suspect shortened crankshaft life would be the result.
The engine has a 78mm bore and 77mm stroke.
A friend, local model aircraft racer has 2 stroke "pylon racers" that turn more than 35,000 RPM. The engines are really weird, without piston rings and the piston binds in the cylinder when cold. The are quite difficult to turn over due to the extremely close tolerances. Once warmed up, they feel like any other engine and turn over easily enough, with just the resistance of compression.
Many conventional 2 strokes have such poor scavenging at high RPM due to mild port timing, restrictive exhaust and so on, they can't achieve useful power at high RPM.
The engine has a 78mm bore and 77mm stroke.
A friend, local model aircraft racer has 2 stroke "pylon racers" that turn more than 35,000 RPM. The engines are really weird, without piston rings and the piston binds in the cylinder when cold. The are quite difficult to turn over due to the extremely close tolerances. Once warmed up, they feel like any other engine and turn over easily enough, with just the resistance of compression.
Many conventional 2 strokes have such poor scavenging at high RPM due to mild port timing, restrictive exhaust and so on, they can't achieve useful power at high RPM.
I own an RD350 and an RD400 which are both modified. I have installed digital, programmable ignition systems, modified carburetors/air intakes, expansion chambers, squish band removed from the RD350, new pistons and bearings throughout. I have the ignition systems set to cut out at 10,000 rpm. Both engines pull very strongly to about 9500 then begin to level out as 10,000 rpm approaches. I don't have TZ bearings in my engines so I'm not too keen on running them any higher.
I agree that without some serious port work, higher rpms will not gain me more power. However, those who race RDs do get the power from additional rpms due to the engines being highly tuned for the track.
I agree that without some serious port work, higher rpms will not gain me more power. However, those who race RDs do get the power from additional rpms due to the engines being highly tuned for the track.
Originally Posted By: boraticus
I own an RD350 and an RD400 which are both modified. I have installed digital, programmable ignition systems, modified carburetors/air intakes, expansion chambers, squish band removed from the RD350, new pistons and bearings throughout. I have the ignition systems set to cut out at 10,000 rpm. Both engines pull very strongly to about 9500 then begin to level out as 10,000 rpm approaches. I don't have TZ bearings in my engines so I'm not too keen on running them any higher.
I agree that without some serious port work, higher rpms will not gain me more power. However, those who race RDs do get the power from additional rpms due to the engines being highly tuned for the track.
Cool bikes no doubt and they do respond well to some messaging fer sher..
This subject happens to be something I enjoy, and am just a bit familer with.. As owner operator of my own Mororcycle DYNO service I learned a LOT about bike engines and mods.. In the 12 years I ran the BIZ I did litterally thousands of DYNO runs and tuned hundreds bikes..
I've seen some pretty inpressive bikes and had a lot of good customers over the years..
Originally Posted By: Cujet
My 2001 KTM 380 EXC dirt bike redlines at 8500. It makes good power up until that point, then signs off rather rapidly. Over rev is allowed, to 9600 on occasion. It's not easy to get it up that high and I suspect shortened crankshaft life would be the result.
The engine has a 78mm bore and 77mm stroke.
A friend, local model aircraft racer has 2 stroke "pylon racers" that turn more than 35,000 RPM. The engines are really weird, without piston rings and the piston binds in the cylinder when cold. The are quite difficult to turn over due to the extremely close tolerances. Once warmed up, they feel like any other engine and turn over easily enough, with just the resistance of compression.
Many conventional 2 strokes have such poor scavenging at high RPM due to mild port timing, restrictive exhaust and so on, they can't achieve useful power at high RPM.
Cool, I have a 2000 HUSQVARNA 410 4-Stroke.. Love the thumpers an dthe KTM's kick a-s-s..
WOW, 35K, man thats spiinin!!
I own an RD350 and an RD400 which are both modified. I have installed digital, programmable ignition systems, modified carburetors/air intakes, expansion chambers, squish band removed from the RD350, new pistons and bearings throughout. I have the ignition systems set to cut out at 10,000 rpm. Both engines pull very strongly to about 9500 then begin to level out as 10,000 rpm approaches. I don't have TZ bearings in my engines so I'm not too keen on running them any higher.
I agree that without some serious port work, higher rpms will not gain me more power. However, those who race RDs do get the power from additional rpms due to the engines being highly tuned for the track.
Cool bikes no doubt and they do respond well to some messaging fer sher..
This subject happens to be something I enjoy, and am just a bit familer with.. As owner operator of my own Mororcycle DYNO service I learned a LOT about bike engines and mods.. In the 12 years I ran the BIZ I did litterally thousands of DYNO runs and tuned hundreds bikes..
I've seen some pretty inpressive bikes and had a lot of good customers over the years..
Originally Posted By: Cujet
My 2001 KTM 380 EXC dirt bike redlines at 8500. It makes good power up until that point, then signs off rather rapidly. Over rev is allowed, to 9600 on occasion. It's not easy to get it up that high and I suspect shortened crankshaft life would be the result.
The engine has a 78mm bore and 77mm stroke.
A friend, local model aircraft racer has 2 stroke "pylon racers" that turn more than 35,000 RPM. The engines are really weird, without piston rings and the piston binds in the cylinder when cold. The are quite difficult to turn over due to the extremely close tolerances. Once warmed up, they feel like any other engine and turn over easily enough, with just the resistance of compression.
Many conventional 2 strokes have such poor scavenging at high RPM due to mild port timing, restrictive exhaust and so on, they can't achieve useful power at high RPM.
Cool, I have a 2000 HUSQVARNA 410 4-Stroke.. Love the thumpers an dthe KTM's kick a-s-s..
WOW, 35K, man thats spiinin!!
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