2 over 4 and 4 over 8 are the same number

[spackard]

...within California, 1 out of 4 kids can't understand in a 4-part multiple choice test, they can't understand that 2 over 4 and 4 over 8 are the same number. So, 25% of the population right there is possibly then to be underclass. -Lee Ohanian

I looked for his source for this.
The OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) conducts a cross-country test of mathematical proficiency. And the United States is 37th out of 46 countries (1 is best). There has been no significant change in US ranking over time.

Apparently, just over one quarter (26%) of 15 year olds in the US fail to rate at PISA achievement level 2 in math. The above problem is indicative of a level 2 math question.

Try taking the test (only gives 1 question at each level):
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

- the Slovak Republic, which spends around USD 53 000 per student, performs at the same level as the United States, which spends over USD 115 000 per student.

Among OECD countries, the United States has the 6th largest proportion of students with an immigrant background.
• However, the share of students with an immigrant background explains just 4% of the performance variation between countries. Despite having large proportions of immigrant students, some countries, like Canada, perform above the OECD average.

Unlike half of OECD countries, in the United States there is no significant difference between advantaged and disadvantaged schools in student-teacher ratios or in the proportion of mathematics teachers with university-level qualifications.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: spackard
...within California, 1 out of 4 kids can't understand in a 4-part multiple choice test, they can't understand that 2 over 4 and 4 over 8 are the same number. So, 25% of the population right there is possibly then to be underclass. -Lee Ohanian

I looked for his source for this.
The OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) conducts a cross-country test of mathematical proficiency. And the United States is 37th out of 46 countries (1 is best). There has been no significant change in US ranking over time.

Apparently, just over one quarter (26%) of 15 year olds in the US fail to rate at PISA achievement level 2 in math. The above problem is indicative of a level 2 math question.

Try taking the test (only gives 1 question at each level):
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

- the Slovak Republic, which spends around USD 53 000 per student, performs at the same level as the United States, which spends over USD 115 000 per student.

Among OECD countries, the United States has the 6th largest proportion of students with an immigrant background.
• However, the share of students with an immigrant background explains just 4% of the performance variation between countries. Despite having large proportions of immigrant students, some countries, like Canada, perform above the OECD average.

Unlike half of OECD countries, in the United States there is no significant difference between advantaged and disadvantaged schools in student-teacher ratios or in the proportion of mathematics teachers with university-level qualifications.

Union hack teachers in the Slovak Republic don't drive expensive German cars.

 

[Alfred_B]

In a lot of countries, the teachers are revered, not vilified. You will not see people saying things like what @HerrStig has posted above.

When the attitude towards the teachers is negative, you will see less investment in talent. The study quotes the average amount spent per student. How much of it is for academic purposes and how much of it is for a football stadium, etc.?

Also, average is a very poor indicator on the money spent. You have highly advantaged schools and highly disadvantaged schools. After all, our schools are funded through property taxes which means that economically depressed areas will have lower tax collections hence a smaller pot to invest in education.

 

[OneEyeJack]

You can just use the American way in increasing the number of students that pass. Just lower the score required for passing. The school administrators are at least qualified to do that. In fact that may be the only qualification for such work unless of course the job is a payback.

 

[BurrWinder]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The harsh reality is there ARE kids working hard with lots of parental involvement getting GOOD educations in private and public schools, and there also huge numbers of layabouts who have been told by one political party that THAT doesn't matter because the "gubbermint" will insure "income equality" along with all the other class warfare bleep they promote. Now the vote buyers tell us that "people live longer in certain areas" so WE must foot the bill to move the "disadvantaged" into those areas. (Section 8, boys and girls) The notion that you get off your whatever and WORK to pay for moving your family to a better place was once a part of our society, now it has become a obligation of those of us who DO work and pay taxes to move the pollution INTO our own neighborhoods.


Cheap shots, ignorant post.


Not really, despite your political leanings... it really isn't an exaggeration about alot of how our society seems to now view work, unfortunately !!

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In a lot of countries, the teachers are revered, not vilified. You will not see people saying things like what @HerrStig has posted above.

When the attitude towards the teachers is negative, you will see less investment in talent. The study quotes the average amount spent per student. How much of it is for academic purposes and how much of it is for a football stadium, etc.?

Also, average is a very poor indicator on the money spent. You have highly advantaged schools and highly disadvantaged schools. After all, our schools are funded through property taxes which means that economically depressed areas will have lower tax collections hence a smaller pot to invest in education.


No one even mentioned teachers in that post ! Although yes, some feel part of the problem is lazy/dirtbag teachers ( of which, yes there are a few ) I prefer to think of it more as a society/parenting problem.

FYI... Yes, I have somewhat younger kids myself...

BurrWinder

 

[OVERKILL]

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: BurrWinder
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The harsh reality is there ARE kids working hard with lots of parental involvement getting GOOD educations in private and public schools, and there also huge numbers of layabouts who have been told by one political party that THAT doesn't matter because the "gubbermint" will insure "income equality" along with all the other class warfare bleep they promote. Now the vote buyers tell us that "people live longer in certain areas" so WE must foot the bill to move the "disadvantaged" into those areas. (Section 8, boys and girls) The notion that you get off your whatever and WORK to pay for moving your family to a better place was once a part of our society, now it has become a obligation of those of us who DO work and pay taxes to move the pollution INTO our own neighborhoods.


Cheap shots, ignorant post.


Not really, despite your political leanings... it really isn't an exaggeration about alot of how our society seems to now view work, unfortunately !!

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In a lot of countries, the teachers are revered, not vilified. You will not see people saying things like what @HerrStig has posted above.

When the attitude towards the teachers is negative, you will see less investment in talent. The study quotes the average amount spent per student. How much of it is for academic purposes and how much of it is for a football stadium, etc.?

Also, average is a very poor indicator on the money spent. You have highly advantaged schools and highly disadvantaged schools. After all, our schools are funded through property taxes which means that economically depressed areas will have lower tax collections hence a smaller pot to invest in education.


No one even mentioned teachers in that post ! Although yes, some feel part of the problem is lazy/dirtbag teachers ( of which, yes there are a few ) I prefer to think of it more as a society/parenting problem.

FYI... Yes, I have somewhat younger kids myself...

BurrWinder


Quoted: Union hack teachers in the Slovak Republic don't drive expensive German cars. by HerrStig

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In a lot of countries, the teachers are revered, not vilified. You will not see people saying things like what @HerrStig has posted above.

When the attitude towards the teachers is negative, you will see less investment in talent. The study quotes the average amount spent per student. How much of it is for academic purposes and how much of it is for a football stadium, etc.?

Also, average is a very poor indicator on the money spent. You have highly advantaged schools and highly disadvantaged schools. After all, our schools are funded through property taxes which means that economically depressed areas will have lower tax collections hence a smaller pot to invest in education.


Good post. Teachers are under valued and under paid in the US. The unions are the only thing that has kept the job attractive to those civic minded enough to enter the very difficult profession.

 

[Andrew1972]

Fractions were hard for my 3rd grader(she missed a week) but I spent time and she got them acing the test. I don't think it would have been the case if I did not put my time into it. The teacher (new eg low salary) was not great at teaching math concepts.

That all being said our education system & culture has one major attribute others ones lack, creativity. We dominant in creative areas including new engineering concepts, production, software, media(film/tv etc), social media etc. I take the good with the bad.

 

[goodtimes]

You can criticize the USA all you want, but who has the school system who produced the math and science ability to take pictures of Pluto's surface?

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
[quote=spackard

{snip}

Unlike half of OECD countries, in the United States there is no significant difference between advantaged and disadvantaged schools in student-teacher ratios or in the proportion of mathematics teachers with university-level qualifications.

Union hack teachers in the Slovak Republic don't drive expensive German cars.


Not sure about elsewhere but I as always surprised to hear of people in the US who took up teaching based on various qualifications. In my Province Nd AFASIK elsewhere in Canada you simply cannot teach in a Publically Funded K-12 school without a 4-year (Honors Program; no classes at the equivalent of 70% final grade) B.Ed degree.

Some require other qualification on top of that ... A Shop Teacher has to be a Journeyman, for example. "Publically Funded" varies, Education is 100% Provincial Jurisdiction until Post-Secondary level, but here that means Public nonDenominational, or Carholic. The taxpayer elects whom gets their Education Taxes. Other religions and French, Ukuranian, Spanish, Cree (Native American), Cantonese, Mandarin, etc immersion schools also are Publically funded so mus follow the same rules.

There are very few Private Schools in Canada, aside from Royal Military College in Ontario I know of none.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes


Good post. Teachers are under valued and under paid in the US. The unions are the only thing that has kept the job attractive to those civic minded enough to enter the very difficult profession.
SOME teachers are under valued. Many teachers aren't qualified to man the fry station at McDs so it brings down everyone. That's what the union gets you.

 

[RedOakRanch]

I have had a lot of exposer to the education system on an administration, teacher and student perspective. What I've noticed is that parents are horrible and the average student would drive this county to ruin. On the bright side it only takes a hand full of exceptional kids to continue the greatness of the USA! My kids are both 2+ grades ahead in instruction right now in a public school, 75% is positive parental support.

 

[Vikas]

I bet China or India spends *LOT* less per student than Slovakia and gets better test results than Slovakia! Do you want to discuss *THAT*?

 

[OneEyeJack]

Some people say the performance of the teacher in the classroom is the responsibility of the teacher's union but it appears that the union is only interested in protecting the job of the teacher so that they can collect the dues and that's the end of the deal.

 

[mjoekingz28]

....tests

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted By: RedOakRanch
I have had a lot of exposer to the education system on an administration, teacher and student perspective. What I've noticed is that parents are horrible and the average student would drive this county to ruin. On the bright side it only takes a hand full of exceptional kids to continue the greatness of the USA! My kids are both 2+ grades ahead in instruction right now in a public school, 75% is positive parental support.


RedOakRanch - You've had lots of 'exposer'? This is ironic. Tell me you were using something with an auto-complete feature!

 

[Nick1994]

Something people need to understand with students taking tests and the results, many many students just guess on the entire test, and choose answers randomly. Many times with these tests teachers tell the students they can put their head down or sit there until everyone is done, so lots of people randomly guess. I'm 20 so fresh out of high school, saw this with every test, the kids don't care. Why should they? They aren't getting graded on the test.

 

[JHZR2]

Only 2% can successfully answer the level 6 question? Were doomed.

Id agree that a test that has no real bearing on the kids' success or path forward will be overlooked and not taken seriously by a good portion of the class, as Nick said. Couple that with the "math and science isnt cool" mantra that is so prevalent and its a recipe for failure.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I bet China or India spends *LOT* less per student than Slovakia and gets better test results than Slovakia! Do you want to discuss *THAT*?
CTA. The state schools seem to indoctrinate more than teach.